What would you choose for brown bear and polar bear defense?

[goon]

A little more gun might be easier for me to shoot better, but I'll also consider the 4" length. I wish Ruger would do a 4" Super Redhawk. They picked a very short barrel length for the Alaskan. I get why they did it, but still, they could have engineered some kind of fix.

But in thinking it all over, the factors of utility and portability, I'm going to look hard at a Redhawk .44 Magnum and the Alaskan in .454. The .454 might be too much for me now, but I can work up to it with .45 Colt and grow into it. Even a stout .45 Colt round isn't the worst thing a guy could have in the chambers. Thanks for the advice gents.

 

[jeepnik]

The Alaska fish and game dept. has done a lot of research on the topic. Their conclusion is that a 458, 375 or 338 mag is preferred.

Their next choice was 30-06 if loaded with 220 gr bullets. Actually 30-06 and 300 WM tied, but they gave the tiebreaker to 30-06 based on less recoil. Finn Aagard an African guide and writer conducted similar tests on African game and reached similar conclusions. The Alaska tests didn't include Nosler Partitions, Aagards did and he found those bullets in 30-06 actually beat 338 mag.

They both felt that overall 30-06 was a sensible minimum and a good choice for anyone who either didn't have or couldn't handle 375 mag recoil. Both studies concluded that 30-06 beat 338-06, 45-70, 444, 35 Whelen, 350 mag, and 12 ga slugs among several others too. The larger calibers didn't get enough penetration.

The Alaska study. I don't have a link to the Aagard tests.

http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf

None of the hand guns tested came close. But... this was done before the introduction of guns such as the 460 and 500 S&W revolvers. Not sure where they'd rank. But I'd personally rather carry a short barreled carbine in 375 than lug around one of these handguns.

If I were choosing a gun just for this purpose it'd be the SS Ruger Guide gun with 20" barrel in 375 Ruger.

http://ruger.com/products/guideGun/models.html

If limited to what is in my safe it'd be one of the 30-06's loaded with Nosler Partitions. But I don't see myself ever going there.

Re: 45-70. Their tests were with typical factory loads. Those which are generally mild enough for the old Trapdoors and such.

Rounds from Buffalo Bore and Garrett are in a totally different class. The big issue with those is that many can't deal with the recoil.

Please remember, with proper ammo, the 45-70 has cleanly (one shot) and quickly taken even the largest and toughest that Africa and Australia have to offer.

Folks regularly take brown and polar bears with it.

But regardless of what ammo and vehicle you choose, it all comes down to shot placement. Until you get into mortars and such that is.

 

[Captcurt]

Not many Polars or Brown in the Ozarks, but

Many of the Alaskan locals that I have talked to carried a shotgun with a load of birdshot in the chamber backed up with slugs. They said to shoot the bear in the face to blind it and then fill it with slugs. Personally, I would want a 30-06 as a bear minimum, (pun intended).

 

[Malamute]

I'm generally more of a rifle fan that shotgun, but in the circumstances you are dealing with, a winchester model 12 may be useful.

If you arent familar with them, they take down in the middle very quickly and easily, making transport very simple. I found an old beater gun (less than $200) and chopped it to 20", had good rifle sights installed (Williams Shorty shotgun ramp with big bead, and a Remington model 700 steel rear sight milled to the shotgun barrel diameter and sweated on), installed sling studs and a decellerator pad. It takes down into a 20" long package. It shoots Brenneke slugs very well. It could be taken in a suitcase, duffel bag or day pack easily, put together as needed, and broken down when not needed and wanting to be discreet.

Dont worry if its loose at the barrel/receiver juncture, they are simple to tighten up. It can be done with a swiss army knife in 5 minutes or less.

They hold about 6 rounds in the magazine from the factory. I think they are underated and not well understood.

The FWS document has been shared before, but it's over 30 years old. I wonder if they even had Brenneke slugs or very hard cast handgun loads then.

Brenneke slugs first came out in about 1898. They had a couple minor improvements in the 20's and 30's.

Keith and others have been using hard cast bullets for hunting since the 20's. The extra heavy bullets started coming into vogue in the 1980's I believe. Some people had experiemented with them earlier (300 gr bullets in 45 Colt in the 20's/30's) but werent used much until the 80's. Ross Seyfried was one of the writers I recall mentioning them with first hand use accounts.

I would guess that the loads used in the FWS tests were whatr was commercially available and/or known about by the people doing them. They were quite possibly just not all that well informed about what was available or worked best.

 

[T.R.]

Years ago, my brother and I worked for the Forest Service one summer estimating board feet of lumber for timber sales. We worked in grizzley country of western Montana. We carried Remington model 760 slide action rifles chambered for 30-06 and loaded with 220 grain core-lokt ammo. Seemed pretty potent to me. We worked all summer without a single bear issue.

TR

 

[22-rimfire]

On the handgun, I could master a .44 magnum, but a .454 might be beyond what I can take. I'm off the road system in NW Alaksa, so everything has to be flown in. Ammo is expensive and reloading is difficult because of this, so mastering a .454 would be even more challenging.

And yep, a .375 or something like that would be better, but I'll actually carry a handgun. I can travel more easily with it too, put it in a pack or suitcase in more populated areas to keep a low profile, etc. A long gun is more effective, but a handgun is more useful.

I believe you answered your own question. Good luck with the 44 mag.

 

[Sunray]

Stopping a charge will not happen if Yogi or Nanuck are coming from under 100 yards. You will never be fast enough. Nothing will stop anything in its tracks either. Not even a 458, 375 or 338 mag. Physics doesn't allow it.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Stopping a charge will not happen if Yogi or Nanuck are coming from under 100 yards. You will never be fast enough. Nothing will stop anything in its tracks either. Not even a 458, 375 or 338 mag. Physics doesn't allow it.

Actually that depends on a lot of variables....Did you have you gun out and ready? Did you hit the bear in the brain or spine? if not were you able to break major bones causing the bear turn or tumble? But LOTS of bears have been stopped inside of 100 yards some WAY closer than that. Here is one.

[Youtube]FsJLISMIPjg[/Youtube]

 

[Plinkin' Logs]

I have it on good authority that some folks like to carry a .454 Casull revolver for bears. If you think .44 magnum is a big load, that ain't nothin. I think caribou's advice is pretty spot on. If it walks this earth and you can hit it, a slug will take down just about anything. I would agree .308 and up for the job of hunting

 

[cowpoke]

For someone who lives in remote alaska, caribou gives good advice ! You an your family are great !

 

[ironworkerwill]

Polar bears and spiders scare the mess out of me. "20 mm" good answer, M1A1 Abrams better answer.

 

[geologist]

I carry a 7.5" Ruger Super Redhawk .454 Casull when I work in great bear habitat. I pray that I will never have to use it.

I prefer a rifle for the task. Specifically a short 20" barrel, CRF Mauser action bolt action rifle with express sights chambered for .375 H&H.

Degrease the bolt by taking it apart and soaking in paint thinner. I run mine dry in the winter.

 

[MCgunner]

The game wardens up in north country generally carry 12 gauge slugs. Good nuf for them, good nuf for me. I'd probably carry a medium frame .357 magnum revolver with heavy loads in case I got gangstered and had a chance to shoot him in the head, but that's a desperate situation right there. I have a fairly light 12 gauge double that's VERY accurate at 50 yards with slugs, big, heavy slugs. It hurts me about as much as it hurts the target, but ya know, if I was shooting at a charging bear, I probably wouldn't even notice the recoil....LOL.

 

[AKMtnRunner]

I'll mention two things only slightly brought up . . . repeatability and individual skill. If a handgun is the choice, you better be very accurate and able to empty the rounds with still good accuracy quickly because in the case of a having to stop a large aggressive bear, you will need to hit the central nervous system. It can kill you much faster than it will bleed out from those smaller wounds. So the handgunner needs a lot of chances. A 9mm has stopped a large brown bear with a good shot on a soft place in the head and it's taken several minutes of mauling before two guys with 44 mag could stop one. And there's the famed story of a tiny eskimo woman that killed a large polar bear with a 22 mag. Point is, use something that you are very skilled with.

I'll share my bear gun experience. I started out with the ruger super redhawk alaskan in 44 mag. It was my first handgun but I figured I could master it well with practice. Well, a snub nosed 44 with hot loads changed my mind real quick. I gained an appreciation for sight radius. And I have a lot of better things to do than get to the range and shoot money down the barrel so I didn't get much better. So I went up to a heavier and longer barreled revolver, a S&W X Frame, which was much more effective accuracy and power wise, but that was a pain to carry with me so I ended up not taking it, at all. So then I tried the ruger SP101 4" with the buffalo bore 180 grainers. Better, but I was still a bit nervous about just 5 rounds. So then I tried the semi auto route with a Glock 29 10mm with buffalo bore 220 grainers. I was pleasantly surprised at how much more accurate I was with it and compared to even the 357 mag, it was light recoiling and I could get the sights back on target very quickly. So as far as a handgun goes, my best tool is the Glock 29.

But still, it's unlikely that handgun will reliably stop a bear in this hypothetical situation. So, I've boiled my bear defense system to this: for going light and quick, I make lots of noise and carry a can of spray right in my hand. For going slow and spending a long time out there, my primary is my hunting rifle but I may have my glock 29 in a chest holster as a back up.

 

[MCgunner]

tiny eskimo woman that killed a large polar bear with a 22 mag.

You talkin' about this? They were kids, was a single shot .22LR as I recall the story, AND, it was a griz. But, maybe that's a different story?

http://catfishgumbo.blogspot.com/2007/10/grandmas-griz.html

Hmm, link says I need to sign in. Oh well, something changed with the URL I guess. It was a record book griz killed in British Columbia, though.

I just figure I'd rely on my SxS 12 because it's quite handy, quite well regulated and accurate with slugs, I am quicker with it than my pumps, and I don't figure I'd get more'n 2 shots on a charging bear. Hey, if it's good enough for the PHs in Alaska (a double rifle in their case), a bear ain't squat to a charging elephant or lion.

My 4" .357 revolver would be on my belt as it's light and very accurate and any handgun is going to be weak for the chore. A cranial shot at close range would do the trick, though, and if I had to use the revolver, it'd be desperation to get him off me after I mised with the shotgun.

No experience, just prognostication.

 

[AKMtnRunner]

Different story, I was talking about the tiny eskimo woman that killed a large polar bear with a 22 mag. Sorry I don't have a link to it.

 

[geologist]

She shot it in the head from the side after it walked past her. The bears skull is thinnest from the side, midway between the eye and the ear.

 

[WestKentucky]

I can understand a preference for something like a 375, 458, other wmd (a la the studies provided by jmr40), but toting around a scoped bolt action rifle for defensive use against a charging animal when you're on foot? The caliber may be very desirable, but the platform seems like a horrendous choice.

I'd take a reliable semi-auto shotgun with quality slugs. Second choice would be a .45-70 lever gun. Granted, we're talking about a last-ditch option here that's not likely to save you anyway, should you find yourself in that situation, but that said... even if these calibers are less preferable, I think these options will give you a higher probability of successfully landing shots against a fast-moving target than trying to get a sight picture through a scoped bolt gun.

Agreed. If it comes down to it nearly anything is faster than bolt action. Bolt can be quick, I have put 4 on a buck in a field at high speed, but it's nowhere near the speed of a lever, auto, or probably best of all a pump. I rank a pump highest because they are so reliable. Only way to screw up is short shuck it, and even then your back to firing in about 2 seconds or less.

 

[ElevenBravo]

Anything wrong with bear spray? At close quarters, it's going to be more forgiving for surprise and bad aim than a hand cannon.

 

[KUSA]

I might would consider getting one of these.
http://www.alexanderarms.com/products/50-beowulf

 

[herkyguy]

For what it's worth, I've run crews up to Greenland a few times. The first trip, they had a 12 gauge shotgun and a 30-06. The second year, they brought .375s but on both trips it was never an issue.

 

[jmorris]

I waited as long as I could, hopefully the serious answers helped but...

The proper way to catch a polar bear is to dig a hole in the ice, then place pea's all around the hole. When the polar bear goes to take a pea, you run up and kick him in the ice hole.

Don't blame me blame my nephew...

 

[H&Hhunter]

Alrighty then..

Any and all useful tidbits on bear defense have been given here. I think we can all agree that there are sensible caliber minimums and your choice of platform is a personal one. There is no ultimate best bear defense weapon for the masses. Platform is a personal choice. If a person is ever involved in a highly unlikely DLP bear encounter the firearm or spray they have with them will be the current best and only choice.

What caliber/firearm for bear defense is on average a bi or tri-montly thread subject on this forum. As of this thread, and of the hundreds of identical threads on this subject we have yet to provide any ground breaking ideas on the best defensive weapon for bear defense. These threads are the ground hog day of any hunting/shooting forum.

The standard answers are;

1. Several sensible options
2. 20 MM cannon or tank
3. Being able to run faster than your hunting partner
4. The little old lady/ child who killed the 1000+ lber with a .22 mag,LR, Short, Hornet, Hi power deepening on the day.

My advice on best caliber/platform for bear defense is to hit the search function and type in "bear defense". You'll find that there is a plethora of informed and uniformed identical information to be had with out the need to start yet ANOTHER best for bear defense thread.

Looks like it's time to put a fork in this one too. It's done......