What would you do in the woods? 2

[Jeremae]

While deer hunting this season in the Davy Crockett National forest this year, I had a pair of nice hogs (probably around 100-150 lbs) step out and I dropped one in its tracks. I was 25 to 30 feet up a tree in a climbing stand. I sat and smoked a cigarette with a clear view of the carcass.

After I had stood up, turned around and secured my firearm in preparation of climbing down, I heard noise behind me and turned around to see 2 guys in camo picking up my hog! I shouted "Hey that's my pig". As they ran off, one yelled "Thanks" and they laughed.

I have told lots of people of this incident (both hunters and non hunters) and am amazed by how many people say they would have fired a round (mostly a warning shot in their general direction).

While I could have easily unlimbered my gun and done so, I never even considered doing so.

What would you do?

 

[Art Eatman]

I'd have tracked the guys. Hauling the hog, they couldn't run all that fast. That at least lets you get the license plate number, and probably worries the heck out of them.

You have the right to make a citizen's arrest, but I'm not sure of the wisdom of such an effort: The word of two of them vs. one of you.

So, a gray area. I ain't gonna say, in public, just exactly what I might do. Reasonable odds they'll walk home, however...

Art

 

[Ron L]

I would have trailed them to where ever they were going, car, truck, home and then called the police. Without knowing all the hunting regs in your state, seems to me that they stole your property and if they claimed they didn't, they could well have been in possession of poached game. In either case, whether a CO or LEO could have done anything or not, I would have at least made a report. These same jokers could have also been stealing stands and who knows what.

 

[Marshall]

Yell, "You got the Pig so ya better start squeellin boys!"

Then start following them while humming "Dueling Banjo's!"




Marshall

 

[Dr.Rob]

I've never had anyone steal my kill... but I was advised long ago how to stake your claim.

Carry a bic lighter, or other recognizable object and if you can't pack it out right away, insert the object under the hide, where its not easily dislodged.

I magine the look on the game warden's face when you say "Yeah that's my deer, how else did he end up with a pink plastic bic with my NAME written on it in sharpie pen up his nose?"

You also are NOT required to TAG your kill until you transport it, so here in Colorado, its wise NOT to fill out your tag until you get it into the truck (meaning if for some reason you have to leave it overnight and come back the next day to pack it out)

 

[Keith]

I can't imagine NOT chasing those guys down! Two guys carrying a 100 pound hog wouldn't have covered ground very fast.

No way would I have submitted to this like you did. I hope that doesn't sound too judgemental, but in many ways people surrendering to crime (and this was a crime!), explain the prevalence of crime.

Keith

 

[JeepDriver]

I'd be concerned about going after any one crazy enough to steal something in plain sight of its owner. God only know what else they would be willing to do.

You may have been armed, but guns are a defensive item for law abiding citizens. Be thankful they didn't shoot when you yelled.

 

[redneck]

I'd have hunted em down, an left em tied together, hands an feet back to back. An stuck a knife in the ground for em about 100ft away.


Probably would have followed at a distance, trying to keep out of sight. Get license plate/ and or assign walkin papers (let me know how comfy them boots are walkin fellas, I may buy a new pair sometime )
Jerkoffs might have decided that carryin your hog off was work and left it layin somewhere between your stand and their ride/camp too.
Really depends on situation though. If they were visibly armed, an how serious they were about takin your hog. Its a shame, but its not worth escalating into something serious. You lost out on the meat but you still got the time in the woods, an you'll get another one soon.
I really really hate people that steal though, especially something like that. If your hungry an need the meat, ask. I'll probably give it to you.

 

[MeekandMild]

Another argument against the use of climbing stands! By the time you'd gotten down they'd be in the next county.

 

[Atticus]

Reminds me of a converstation that occured between a friend of mine and two scumbags a few years back. Them-" What are ya gonna do... shoot me over a pheasant?" Him -"Yep". After thinking about it for a few seconds, they walked away pheasantless while muttering some choice words.

I wouldn't recommend that approach however. Art has the right idea.

 

[Byron Quick]

Officer, I could have sworn that was two deer running off with my hog. Terrible accident, terrible.

 

[Jeremae]

I did climb down and follow the blood/scuff trail about 1/2 mile through the woods where it ended at some tire tracks on the side of dirt road. Didn't get there quick enough to get lic. plate number.

The pig had no distinguishing markings (just your typical piney woods rooter) visiable through the scope. Feral hogs are Non game animals in Tejas and don't require tags.

I did report the incident to Game Warden that evening and he felt I showed admirable restraint (said he woulda been tempted to put another round in the pig since it was running off and all). He was pretty sure who it had been (a couple of brothers from local area he had some run ins with before) and would go check it out but wasn't likely that any evidence was still around (and its not likely my round was still in carcass even when they picked it up).

While I am hesitant to take a human (being charitable) life except in self-defense, I ethically have no problem with shooting a thief, particularly ones taking food outa my kids mouths (I have been outa work for over year and a half).

Yes they were both armed (looked like pump shotguns) but I had a scoped 308 and for close up a kimber custom royal (my normal ccw). I shoot IDPA scenarios on an almost daily basis in my back yard and put at least 10 rounds a week downrange with the 308 so am very confidant in my ability to place rounds where I want with both weapons.

The fact that they were not wearing blaze orange (required in National Forest) and willing to grab my kill so brazenly tells me they had little respect for the law. If they had come outa the woods while I was standing over the pig, I'm pretty sure I would have been able to discourage them, and probably would have shot them if pushed as they were armed. BUT, even though I could have fairly easily done so, I just can't see sniping them with the 308 as they ran off. And I was taught that you DON'T fire warning shots, If you pull the trigger it is with the intent to kill.

It was a very frustrating experience but feel I dealt with it as best I could. I mainly told story both because so many people have told me "They woulda at least tossed some lead over the scums head because they mighta dropped my pig" a course of action I see as fraught with danger and so others can think it through in case they have a similar problem.

 

[Marshall]

No one can argue with the fact that you are here today to tell the story! And we are all glad about that.

 

[griz]

I think I would have done exactly the same as you did. People talk a lot about warning shots and such, but I believe and hope most of it is bluster and wishful thinking.

There were some less than ethical "hunters" at a place I used to go. They would hurry over to the area a shot came from in the hope of finding and "finishing off" the deer another hunter had shot. Unlike your two, they would at least acknowledge a hunter’s claim if he was at the dead deer. The two in your case sound like they might be dangerous. Good choice on your part and I hope the next pig is tasty.

 

[thumbtack]

I have to agree with Art they would be walking home.

 

[jmbg29]

I probably would have fired my rifle into the ground just below my tree stand. They are running away, and so they have no idea that I didn't shoot toward them or anywhere near them. I get the feeling that the loud BOOM! would cause them to drop the pig, not to mention causing them some incontinance problems.

 

[Guyon]

The folks here who advocate "warning" shots just aren't thinking.

The two scum had pump shotguns which were, in all likelihood, loaded with slugs. They had already displayed contempt for law-abiding action.

Now what if you do shoot and they start shooting back?

All bravado aside, they are mobile and on the ground where they can find cover and shoot from a safer position. You, however, would be a sitting duck in a climbing stand. No place to find cover and climbing down would make you an even better target.

Jeremae did the right thing. It's just a pig. It's not worth your life.

On the ground, I would have been more forceful. In the stand though, I would have done the same thing.

Think before you shoot folks.

 

[JGReed]

And to further what Guyon just said, if it does turn into a gunfight you now several possible scenarios, none of which will play in your favor:

1 - If you get killed (treestand isn't very good cover) the two guys can truthfully say that you started shooting first. As far as they're concerned you were shooting at them and missed.
2 - You kill one of them. Survivor claims you shot first, they returned fire defensively.
3 - You kill both of them. At least yours is the only story, but you have to explain to the police and DA that the first shot really was just a warning. And that they realized this. DA might be sympathetic, but might not.
4 - You all survive. Word of two against one that you started shooting at them, when all they did was pick up a pig they thought was theirs. You say warning, they say you missed. You get prosecuted.

Just like when you CCW, you need to be very sure of why you are pulling that hogleg. Cuz once it's out, everyone else is reacting.

All in all Jeremae, you did fine.

 

[ed dixon]

You were smart. They were crazy. They openly challenged somebody they knew to be armed. There was a real chance it would have escalated. They are likely to run across someone just as nuts as they are at some point, whether in a bar, a bedroom or the woods.

 

[SteelyDan]

It's posts like this that remind me how important "wisdom" is.

When I was 20, I probably would have immediately turned it into a mano-a-mano thing, they would have dropped the pig or died, or else I would have died. Gee, that's sure smart... end up dead or in prison over a pig.

But it's been a long time since I was 20, and sometimes I can't believe I made it this long. Maybe it's just the "lower testoserone" thing I keep hearing about on the radio ads for forty-something guys. But this isn't even a close question. Jeremae did the right thing, the only sensible thing.

 

[ahenry]

I don’t believe in warning shots. As has been illustrated by others, they can cause too many secondary and “after action†problems. That said I would probably have been sore tempted to shoot the hog again while they were walking off with it. Avoiding that, I probably would have tracked/chased them down. Two men walking with a 100+ lbs hog should leave a pretty obvious trail, and I should be able to move much faster than they can. Knowing my personality as I do, I think I would have ended up confronting them and forcing their hand. Since there were two of them and one of me that probably wouldn’t have been the most prudent thing to do. Of course, I never claimed to be prudent, just hardheaded, especially in the face of wrong-doing. And I can’t stand thieves. Don’t plan on letting a couple of them get away with thievery right in front of my face.

 

[Art Eatman]

SteelyDan, I reckon it's less of a testosterone thing than a testosterone-in-control thing. Age tends to bring a better appreciation for risk-reward analysis. Still got the wanna-shoot'ems, but know better.

In many situations, one's emotional response is for total destruction. Common sense says that response is usually located between dumb and dumber. Doesn't even take a lot of wisdom...

, Art

 

[SteelyDan]

Very well put, Art.

I also appreciate your finally giving a name to that feeling we've all had one time or another: the "wanna-shoot'ems." Too good.

 

[H&Hhunter]

About ten years ago my brother and I were down in the Floridas Mts in SE NM on a Persian Ibex hunt. I shot a nice billy who in typical goat fashion took a death leap and fell/tumbled all the way to the base of the mountian several thousand feet below.

We started down the treacherous slope and after about 30 minutes we watched as three hombres who'd been keeping an eye on us from the bottom walked over to the kill and started to drag it towards their truck.

My first instinct was to introduce them to Mr. .300 Weatherby. My brother leaned back and said the most perfect satement..."Well that saves us 2 hours of climbing and we get to shoot another one." Well said and well done.

These guys are scum they will get theirs and you did the right thing.

 

[.45FMJoe]

Officer, I could have sworn that was two deer running off with my hog. Terrible accident, terrible.

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA that was hilarious!! Good one