What would you do? Unknown man in attached garage.

[KevinAbbeyTech]

We live in a rural area with little/no crime.
Our garage is attached to the house with a steel door with no window.
There are two exits leading from the garage to the driveway.
One is another steel door, and the other is the garage door.

A few years back, my Mother had been doing something outside and had left the outside door unlocked.

After coming inside for a while, she opened the door and there was an uninvited adult male (6ft tall, medium build) standing in the garage.

When asked what he was doing in there, he told us that he was a salesman for a driveway resurfacing company and wanted to ask us if we wanted our driveway paved (our driveway is very long and made of gravel)

My theory is that he was casing the place.

We calmly told him that he was lucky we didn't shoot him and if we ever saw him again we would charge him with trespassing.

I was proud of my Mom for not shooting him without a word.

How would you handle this?

 

[ShadyScott999]

Just like your mom did!

 

[TexasRedneck]

I would've called the SO to come identify the intruder I was holding for them. Sorry - once he crossed the threshold of my home, he's a burglar and will be held for authorities.

 

[Speedo66]

+1

You're on my property and I don't know you, you'd better have a good reason.

You're IN one of my buildings, you ARE a burglar, and will be held.

 

[kilo729]

^ What happens when he turns around and walks away?

 

[TexasRedneck]

By entering my property, he's committed a crime - he'll be held for authorities.

 

[shootistpd27]

If I try to hold him there and he turns and walks away, I regroup and tell him that Im interested in the resurfacing job. Once he turns around, drop him. Just kidding. But if more people like this were dropped in their tracks, it would cut the burglary stats in half. We had a burglary of a jewelry store in the city where I am a cop. The burglar was unaware that the owner lived in the back of the store. When confronted at gunpoint the burglar tried his luck and charged the owner. The burglar is now fork end up and the jewelry store owner saved the tax payers of mississippi thousands of dollars for the burglars defense and even more for his housing in the state pen. I would like to thank Governor of Ms Haley Barbour for helping the passing of the Castle law in our great state.

 

[KevinAbbeyTech]

What happens when he turns around and walks away?

After looking around to make sure nothing was missing from the garage,
my Mother watched him drive away in an unmarked utility truck with a toolbox and took his plates down.

If he had been loading my stuff up, I would have held the guy and called the SO but I really don't think that the guy did anything wrong (besides breaking and entering, burglary, whatever you want to call it)
and honestly, unless he had stolen or broken something, I have no interest in pressing charges.
In the future, if this happened the same way, I would hold him for LEO's until we know he has no record, and if he is clean, let him walk.

Frankly, I'm glad that this is the biggest security breach we have ever had living anywhere.
We have been here for 20 years, but it just goes to show you that you have to always be on your toes.

Say we had all gone and taken naps with the door unlocked like that, he could have made off with $1000 of tools.

 

[bikerdoc]

Does not have a chance of getting that close with my dogs outside. The Little one making noise and the big one doing the work.
If they are inside the threshold belongs to them, until we say otherwise.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Yes, he was casing the place. Had he been a legitimate salesman he would have knocked at the front door. As he left I would have called police to report an attempted burglary (he wouldn't be charged with this, but they could get him for criminal trespass around here, and the charge might even hold up in court), to allow police to stop and question him, ascertain if he has any warrants or possesses burglary tools, and to warn the neighbors. If he really turned out to be a salesman simply lacking in intellectual firepower, he wouldn't be hurt, and would learn a valuable lesson. But seriously, if he was a salesman it was a side business, and a way to approach potential burglary targets. One more thing: taking it from the top, I probably wouldn't have approached him in the garage. Too easy for him to force his way in and attack you without anyone seeing, then close and lock the garage door, trapping you in your own home. I'd have jumped back into the house and slammed and locked the door, and asked him who he was while I called police.

 

[Kleanbore]

In the future, if this happened the same way, I would hold him for LEO's until we know he has no record, and if he is clean, let him walk.

Check the law in your state. There are serious risks attendant to that.

In most states, you may not detain a person for simple trespass (you are to let him leave). If he has committed a burglary (again, check the state law, but in most places that must involve intent to steal or commit a felony, and he is of course innocent of that until proven guilty) you may be entitled to make a citizen's arrest, but there are serious risks attendant to that, and most lawyers I've talked to recommend against it.

Remember that while police officers are indemnified against civil suits, you are not. Consider suits for unlawful restraint, excessive force, false arrest, damages for any injury suffered or medical emergency occurring while the guy is in your custody.... Even if you ultimately win, it could become very expensive. In my view, the only real winners would be your lawyer and his favorite stores.

Depending on the state law, there is also the possibility that you might face criminal charges.

And in most places you can't shoot him if he simply chooses to leave, except under very limited circumstances.

Better to get the plate numbers, remember enough details about him to give a description, and report the incident immediately.

Whether he has a record is likely irrelevant until it comes to sentencing.

Personally, I've become extremely careful about making sure that all doors are always locked.

 

[TAB]

"no thanks, please leave"


I would also report him to the SO.

 

[TexasRedneck]

If he has nothing to hide, he'll stay for the SO so that everything can be resolved. At very least, he has trespassed. He boss should be so advised. And having crossed the threshold, he's committed burglary of a habitation in Texas.
Having said that, if he insists on leaving, he can do so - empty handed. I'm not going to escalate the situation without significant cause...

 

[TAB]

You hold me a gun point( or even have one present), you better hope your lawyer is better then mine.

 

[TexasRedneck]

You hold me a gun point( or even have one present), you better hope your lawyer is better then mine.

Actually, won't need one. Ya DO need to know the law in the state in which you reside (see my previous qualifiers re. "In Texas..."). In THIS part of the country, I have EVERY legal right to be armed while anywhere on my property. If I come across someone not authorized to be here, and as a result draw a weapon, then I won't need an attorney. You might, but it'll be to defend you against the burglary charge you'll be facing if you've crossed the threshold into my home (which includes the garage, since it has a defined "doorway").
Now, would I draw a gun if I come across someone in my garage? Depends on the circumstances. Twice, I haven't - and once, I have. In all 3 instances the law was called and the person inside the garage was "detained" (once at gunpoint, once verbally) twice. The third time, it was pretty obvious that the guy was at the wrong house, since he was dropping off a table saw - we got a good laugh out of it, and I even helped him load it back up. Oh, yeah - I DID take his license number, and f/u with it later. He was one street off of where he wanted to be, and as it turned out I knew the guy he was looking for.

 

[TAB]

The diffrence is your armed while holding some one against thier will... Even in texas, you will lose that civil court case, in civil court the burden just as much on you as it is on him. If his lawyer is better, your going to lose, its just that simple.

 

[Kleanbore]

I have EVERY legal right to be armed while anywhere on my property.

And that, I think we all here agree, is a good thing.

If I come across someone not authorized to be here, and as a result draw a weapon, then I won't need an attorney.

Don't believe it. If one simply walks on to un-posted property in Texas it's a minor misdemeanor. You (citizen or police officer) can detain someone only in the case of a felony or the breach of the public peace. You might not need an attorney-- but that would depend entirely on him.

And having crossed the threshold, he's committed burglary of a habitation in Texas.

That depends on what his intent was at the time (or what the did after entering).

As I understand it, the state would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended to steal, commit assault, or commit a felony. Doesn't sound too difficult too the lay person but it would depend on the evidence and the jury. And if the state were to fail...

...the person would only have to prove with the preponderance of the evidence that you acted improperly.

Not for me.

I'm rather risk averse. I keep the doors locked, keep a fire extinguisher handy, have firearms accessible almost always, avoid bad neighborhoods, wear seat belts, and try to know the basics of the law wherever I travel. And detaining someone is a risk I won't take under ordinary circumstances.

Having said that, if he insists on leaving, he can do so - empty handed. I'm not going to escalate the situation without significant cause...

Good thinking.

There have been a number of threads on similar subjects recently, and I've been doing some thinking about it. If I have a burglar in the house, I think I want him out as quickly as possible. First, as long as he's there he's potentially very dangerous; secondly, an accomplice may come in for him; and finally I really don't want him looking around and either seeing what's in it or memorizing the layout of the house. The first two these might apply in the case of the unwelcome garage visitor.

Just my opinion.

 

[f4t9r]

Ask him who he works for and get a buisness card. Then you find out real quick if he is legit.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Sorry - I'm not going to allow him to be that close to me. He can lay his ID on the floor and back away while I inspect it. Bear in mind, though - my response will ALWAYS be brought about by the specifics of the situation at hand. There's no one "right" or "wrong" answer. As an ex-LEO with several family members still "in the business", I keep abreast of the laws and how they apply, and will err on the side of my personal - and legal - safety. You can bet that for me to draw on someone will require more than simply them being on my property. However - and specifically - once they enter any part of my home (including a garage), I have the right to presume they have less than legal intent. Even then, my actions will be tempered by the specifics as they unfold. Bear in mind - I've made arrests both as an officer and civilian, have drawn a weapon both as an officer and a civilian - and have taken a life as an officer. So, no - there's NO anxiety on my part to "play Rambo".

 

[Speedo66]

Entering a dwelling, and an attached garage is certainly part of a dwelling, is an A Misd. in my state, no intent needed. An A Misd. is punishable by up to 1 year.

Entering a dwelling with intent to commit a crime is Burg 2, a C Fel. Now you're looking at some serious time.

Not all of NY is NYC, the rest of it is kind of conservative, and a jury of homeowners wouldn't think twice about convicting a person who unlawfully entered a dwelling.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Take a picture with the cell phone , get the LC plate and run his 6 off.

 

[skeet king]

shoot him

 

[Kleanbore]

Sorry - I'm not going to allow him to be that close to me. He can lay his ID on the floor and back away while I inspect it. Bear in mind, though - my response will ALWAYS be brought about by the specifics of the situation at hand. There's no one "right" or "wrong" answer. As an ex-LEO with several family members still "in the business", I keep abreast of the laws and how they apply, and will err on the side of my personal - and legal - safety. You can bet that for me to draw on someone will require more than simply them being on my property. However - and specifically - once they enter any part of my home (including a garage), I have the right to presume they have less than legal intent. Even then, my actions will be tempered by the specifics as they unfold. Bear in mind - I've made arrests both as an officer and civilian, have drawn a weapon both as an officer and a civilian - and have taken a life as an officer. So, no - there's NO anxiety on my part to "play Rambo".

Well said.

shoot him
__________________
TAKE 'EM!
I am a free man Don't tread on me

You wouldn't be a free man after that!

 

[JImbothefiveth]

What happens when he turns around and walks away?

Get behind cover, and make sure he stays away.

I'm not going to shoot an unarmed man who is retreating.

 

[bang_bang]

Last summer, my mom had something similar happen.

We also live in a very rural area. I heard a vehicle outside, when I looked out the window I saw a Ford Explorer with a man sitting in the driver's side. I thought it was the Jehovah's Witnesses that make their annual stop in the neighborhood. I ignored them, after hearing mom answer the door with my 85 pound dog.

But...what I didn't know is that their was a 2nd man. The guy claimed to be a Febreeze salesman and wanted to show us their newest product. Our dog is allergic to Febreeze, so mom refused. Seems as though she was on her way to take the dog to the vets office.

Anyways, the guy started getting smart. He said stuff to the extent of "Well why won't you let me in?" and "It'll only take a minute." Note that these men have no idea that my brother and I are both in the house.

He asks about my dog who is barking and growling, "Does it bite?"

Mom replied "Maybe..."

That guy left pretty quick.

That is about the same time break-ins started in the county. These guys probably are not responsible...and most of the situation they were not. Either way, any vehicle that pulls into my driveway unannounced answers to me. I tend to stick my Witness 45 or Para Ordnance P10-45 either in the SOB or in my front pocket.