What's a good powder for defensive 410 loads?

[5kwkdw3]

As the title implies, I'm ever so closer to sneaking up on my defensive 410 load but I need to find a forgiving 410 powder that would allow Lee scooping to dish out the powder. I really don't want to mess with scales and tricklers and the like. Just think, even some of the most expensive shotgun loaders use bushings or volume-metric measured powder so scooping is not too far out of the question.

Here's my load thus far:

MagTech brass .410 hulls

CCI 300 large pistol primers

Ballistic Products Stretch 410 wads

Ballistic Products Mini Nitro over load card wads

Hand Cast Lee 4 pellets of #000 buckshot

Lee sized to .339 from .360 round balls

Reason for all of this is that I'm most familiar with brass hull loading from my days in SASS. I also have most all of the equipment save a metallic cartridge die that would allow me to put a slight roll crimp on the brass? (any help?). By going to the Lee #000 buck, I can get a six pour, 18 cavity mold. The sizing will clean up the sprues and sort of turn them into a flat based oblong bullet that will fit perfectly between the selected hull and wad. And yes I plan on having the pellets keyhole at 15 or so downrange. Should be a devastating load. Not looking to knock me on my rear with this load, but the pellets don't really need to be going that fast in a house distance well patterned load. So not counting the wad or over shot nitro card, the pellets at 68 grains a piece would be 272 grains for four of them. Sounds like a lot, but in SASS I was shooting 300 grain 45's and by nature of the size of the bullet I ended up using less powder than say a 200 grain bullet.

What do you think of the Aliant 410 powder for this load?

 

[RealGun]

Just starting myself but gather that the magnum handgun powders are what you need. A few powders are supposedly specialized, such as Lil Gun and Alliant 410, but their burn rates are right there with the likes of PowerPro 300-MP, aka Win296, aka H110. Not to forget Ramshot Enforcer aka AA4100. I expect that A2400 would be a good way to step back a notch or a way to start out.

I think Winchester 206A would be your primer, but perhaps others could confirm that for me.

p.s. I see you're loading brass, so your CCI LPP are probably an okay choice.

 

[au_prospector]

A decent scale is a must for ALL reloading even shotshell

Just think, even some of the most expensive shotgun loaders use bushings or volume-metric measured powder so scooping is not too far out of the question.

You are being presumptuous here. You need a decent scale for shotshell loading too. You can get an inexpensive quality balance beam, you wont need anything else. You see, bushings measure by volume and powder is always measured by weight. All powders are different enough that this part is critical. Bushing tables are a broad guide, you have to check them against your powder. Turns out the bushings in both my loaders throw Unique powder charges too light and Alliant 410 too heavy. You will also want to check for consistency every once in a while as well.

Do your self a favor, dont Bubba load shotgun shells. Alliant 2400 and Alliant 410 work well in .410 bore.

 

[buck460XVR]

Hodgdon's Lil- Gun was designed for .410. Loading by volume is fine once that volume is defined and/or verified by weight. Many folks feel that loading by volume is more precise than by weight, and dippers have been used for years without major problems.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Li'Gun is the powder you are looking for. It delivers high velocities with lower pressures than other powders in it's burn rate range. If you can't find load data for the brass cases you're using and Lil'Gun I'm sure you will find data for H110/W296 since it's been around for a much longer time.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I've used both Win296/H110 and Lil'Gun in .410.

I'm doing much the same as you are with a home-made set of dies similar to the Lee Classic Loaders. Get you a set of Lee dipper powder measures. If you'll look at the data, you'll see that the powders are relatively insensitive to exact weights. It's the wads and primers and compatibility to the cases that determines what works. I prefer the Win AA-HS hulls. However, I've gotten good luck with Remington as well. The only odd cases are some of the forgien makes such as Fiocchi and Sellier $ Belliot.
The correct amount of shot and powder determines the height of the load column and this important to get a good crimp.

I've got a .410 o/u and have really taken to the .410. I'm using .375" Lee RB moulds to make my shot for .410. I've found that H110 with a PC wad and 4 RB is a fantastic load. With an I.C. choke, my gun will put 2 at POA and 2 just under 4-6" lower at 25yds for a ~8" pattern.

 

[gamestalker]

H110 / 296 are very good powders for .410 shot shell intended for high velocity loads.

It's imperative to use published shot shell recipe's exactly. Unlike loading metallic cartridges, shot shell doesn't allow for work ups or any deviation from the recipe. For example, if you find data for a load using a specific powder, make sure you use the estimated charge weight and then use the corresponding scoop that will produce that charge. And it's also important to check that a scoop is delivering the correct charge by checking it against a scale. I load on a Mec, and even though the recipe may indicate a particular bushing, I always confirm that bushing is delivering the correct weight.

As for hulls, wads, and primers, stick to the recipe or it's published substitute. You can't mix and match just because it seems like it should work.

GS

 

[Rule3]

You can certainly use a LEE dipper or homemade dipper out of a empty brass case for volumetric loading, BUT you must know the weight that the dipper is throwing. (so you need a scale for that) You also need to use it correctly by scooping the powder, no taping or banging on the side and use a straight edge to level off the top. Do the same every time and it is very consistent.

 

[NCsmitty]

I use H110 in my buck ball loads as it's a slower magnum type powder, and Alliant 410 in my clay target loads. Alliant 410 is a bit faster burning and burns clean.


NCsmitty

 

[john wall]

300-MP IS NOT 296/H110. Period. Straight from Alliant.

I prefer it for my 410 loads, but I am using conventional components and hulls for Sporting/Skeet.

 

[suemarkp]

Do you have a 44 Mag or 444 Marlin die set? If so, see if its roll crimp will do what you need (you may need a card or gas check in the top of the cartridge and roll enough to hold the card in place). I have a special die that rolls 45 ACP a lot to make a 45 ACP round nose shot shell shaped like the CCI aluminum ones. That would work probably work too.

 

[5kwkdw3]

I use H110 in my buck ball loads as it's a slower magnum type powder, and Alliant 410 in my clay target loads. Alliant 410 is a bit faster burning and burns clean.

Thanks guys for all the good information, but as in the above, I'm scared to death of H110 since it has so little leeway. A minimum to maximum loading of only one grain of powder is for me, not forgiving enough at all. With scooped powder, one would have to imagine at least one to two tenth's variation between one load to the next. In a powder like H110 that is a big deal! Now the 410 powder being faster burning, that is kind of what I'll be needing since this is going to be shot out of a Circuit Judge, Ie. it is out of a cylinder with a barrel cylinder gap and rather short barrel length. It would seem that the faster burning powders would be the best for that situation? I just don't want something akin to a 400 grain projectile being shot out with a powder like Bullseye powder. I don't want to have to buy several loading manuals and would certainly like to find one that dealt with 410 defensive loads in particular. As stated my pre wad and overshot card projectile weight will be 272 grains or a little better than 6/10ths of an ounce. With half ounce slugs for that gauge, the weight does not seem to be a potential problem. Smithy.

 

[RealGun]

300-MP IS NOT 296/H110. Period. Straight from Alliant.

That's not convincing. Got a quote or link? Alliant's interests are rather biased, wouldn't you say?

See the latest edition of Guns and Ammo. That's where the factoid originated.

 

[gamestalker]

H110 / 296 is not at all scary to load with. I use it exclusively for all my magnum applications, including 3" mag. 410 loads, simply because it is probably one of the most straight forward of such powders to work with. It's only real issue, if considered to be, is it doesn't work well when reduced or run at minimum data, and it needs a magnum primer to light it up. And it sure doesn't have a short charge table compared to many of the faster burning powders, that have a 1/2 gr. or less table to work with.

GS

 

[5kwkdw3]

You are being presumptuous here. You need a decent scale for shotshell loading too.

Well I've owned many a MEC loader. The only one I chose not to own was their MEC 600 JR. That's because it shaves off brass to build up at the rim of the case. NOT FOR ME!!. So I preferred the likes of the MEC Grabber for a progressive (had trouble with that progressive though since a major failure usually ended up in a shot powder mixture (not a problem to burn off the powder and reuse the shot, but expensive and a pain), and also major spillage of shot all over the place including mama's rug (not a good thing). So I stuck with single stage presses and for MEC that meant the Sizemaster of which I had four different gauges when shooting all five games in NSSA skeet. 12, 20, 28, 410, and doubles. Not a one came with a scale (since everyone of them metered powder by volume not weight as you have said). I guess I'm a recipe follower. I looked it up, bought the bushing and dialed it in and off I went. I don't know where the adjustable shot/powder bar came along as all loading information comes in volumetric bushing suggestions like you'll need a MEC #20, a PW #13, a Hornady #52, and so on. Don't need a scale for that one. In fact I know of no commercially available shot shell press that chooses to do a thing with powder weight other than to do it in their lab so that they can post the bushing equivalents in their data sheet. All Reloading press loads are in the form of bushing number (or volume). I trust Lee to the extent that their lab was careful enough to weigh a number of scoops of a particular powder in each and every scoop so that they could publish those averages on their efficient slide card for the consumer to figure out which scoop they really need.

Another problem with winchester 296 is that it is a ball powder. Spill a little of that around and just see what a PITB that is to clean up and around. Miss a little (quite easy to do) and have your automatic primer feet get a hiccup and just watch the sparks/flames shoot by. NO thanks. In researching and weighing the payload (36 caliber RB weighs 70 grains times four balls = 280 grains and you're throughing more than the standard 1/2 ounce load, but less than the 11/16ths load shown on Aliant's 410 loading chart page. This was for AA410 hulls and their corresponding Wads. Plastic on plastic has a higher pressure rating than just about any other combination and Aliant suggested loading a 2.5" hull with 13.5 grains of powder. I'd be using a brass hull (less pressure) with a smaller standard pistol primer (less pressure) with less of a load (less pressure). All I need to do is to find around three scoops (I'm buying the full set however), one that throws 13.5 grains of 410 then 14 grains, then 15 grains. Shoot I might as well toss in a 14.5 scoop to round things out.

I'm sure within two trips to the range I'll have my load. It's not rocket science after all. I know that smokeless is quite different than black, but with black I hit the load I was after the very first time with some wise old-timer advice. Seat your bullet to the normal OAL you'd be apt to see and then figure out how much powder would fit underneath + about a 1/16th of an inch. This extra powder will allow slight compression to keep the powder against the primer and no air spaces would be found in the casing. Worked like a champ with no oopsies or anything. I shot 200, 250, and 300 grain bullets in my 45LC all this way and every single load fired without a hitch. NO boomers either or squib loads.

I found a fellow manufacturing a version of the Lee loader in 410 and it was inexpensive enough for me to pick one up to look at to see if it would work in my plan for this gauge. (68 gauge if you're wondering). Depending on its outcome, I'll add to it as necessary, like a MEC size-all for 419. Smithy.