Whats the 411 on suarez international classes?

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why.kyle

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I want to get training, but Im having hard time finding what classes to take, based on cost, quality of instruction and all that.
There is a local (in utah) Suarez instructor holding a intro to defensive pistol class that im considering.
Would you guys recommend it?
 
He is a polarizing guy. No personal experience here. Reports are likely to be tinged with one sort of bias or another. Best to read AARs and other info available by Googling etc.
 
Al Thompson's link provides is some really good observations.

I've never taken a Suarez course. I like Suarez's out-of-the-box thinking. But like everything else I take what's useful and discard the rest.

I've taken three classes (Combative Pistol I, Combative Pistol II, and Close Quarters Fighting) with former Navy SEAL Jeff Gonzales at TridentConcepts.com. I pretty much adopted everything he taught me years ago and it is the basis I use to judge other defensive shooting techniques. Jeff's book, "COMBATIVE FUNDAMENTALS: An Unconventional Approach", explicitly details the techniques I learned in his classes. I haven't taken a class with Jeff in almost 10 years and he may have made some changes and improvements on what he taught me since then, but what I learned is very well-grounded and solid. Over the years I've looked to improve on what I learned from Jeff but I haven't been able to find anything better.

With that said I'm tempted to take a couple of FoF and point shooting classes from Suarez. But whatever I learned from Suarez would have to incorporate seemlessly with my current technique in order for me to adopt it. (That is unless whatever I learned from Suarez was so superior that I'd adopt it lock, stock & barrel.)

Good luck!
 
Shawn makes a really good point. If you learn "the rules" you will know when to break them. I think that applies here. The point shooting while moving FOF classes are quite controversial and I don't have a real opinion on them. If you get a solid grounding in what nearly everyone acknowledges to be viable shooting skills, well, then you can take some "unconventional" classes and decide whether you want to incorporate those skills.

Best not to put all your eggs in one basket, and all that.
 
I've had instruction from a Suarez instructor and I've come to the conclusion that things really depend on the individual that is teaching you. Suarez, Gunsite, Frontsite, etc... has good and not so good instructors so it really depends on the individual teaching you.

The Suarez guy that taught me, my wife and oldest daughter is a decent guy that really knows his stuff. He's had training at many of the best schools and was very patient with many levels of students.

Don't be affraid to give him a try.
 
I'm not a fan of Suarez. First he was convicted of defrauding the State of CA for disability pay he was taking while he was out running around doing his fancy tactical spetsnaz rolls. Second, it seems everything he writes includes ad hominems and childish insults about anyone that doesn't agree with exactly how he does things. Third, anyone who talks about how lucky he is to have had the opportunity to kill other people has some issues. Fourth, anyone who routinely brags about having killed people as cop likely has some issues. Fifth, he will write and talk like the way he does things is unquestionably the best, put down, and react very childishly to anyone who suggest otherwise and then later adopts their ideas and even try to claim they are his own. An example of this were the articles he wrote about modifying AKs and trying to make them into ARs and now look at the TSD AK he is selling. I remember when he and his minions were bashing anyone that would put an AR stock on an AK now it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Sixth, I've seen him flip flop on his reviews of enough products over the years that his opinion means a lot less to me than it might otherwise. Seventh mush of his marketing is in essence geared towards mall ninja red dawn fantasy stuff (ex. being a guerrilla sniper out operating on your own) even if the base material is good.

Much of the above is made even more amusing by how "insistent" (for lack of better word) he is about being a good Christian.

Just based on his articles and internet posts I don't think I could stand to be around him. Even if his training was something special (and I am far from convinced that it is any better than what can be had elsewhere) he is dishonest, brash, and very arrogant. In sum, there are other people I would rather train with.
 
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Based what you guys said, I think ill just save my money for the MAG 40 class in september.
 
I really enjoyed and learned a lot taking Close Range Gunfighting an hour from home.

So much better and dynamic than the square range stuff I had been exposed to before.

For the money I felt the training was very worthwhile. Is it the be-all and end-all? What is in life?

Is Gabe an arrogant off-putting SOB? I would rather put up with that and get good training for a fair price than spend thousands and be coddled.

I would second the notion that much depends upon the instructor. The gentlemen that run SI here locally are top notch.

I also like the fact that SI trains citizens by citizens. So many of the trainers I looked into were way to ex-military ex-cop for my purposes. I wanted to learn how to fight some random bad guy while out minding my own. Not hear war stories from the sand box or mean suburban streets.

Just my opinion that's worth what you paid for it :)
 
I don't like out of the box thinking when it comes to self defense, take things that are proven to work and use them. I do like modern technology, lights or lasers on your defensive gun give you an edge, so I use them.

As an example for a while, maybe he still does, he was teaching "position sul" as a retention position for your handgun. In my mind this was absolutely poor advice. It is good for a team of cops moving into a building in a line as it keeps the barrels pointed down. But for an individual going through their house after hearing something at night it will most likely just get you killed. It is much slower to get the gun on target, we're only talking several tenths of a second but that's all the time it takes to die. And it's not just this slow old man, a bunch of the guys I shot IDPA with tried it and everyone was significantly slower with the first round on target. A year or two later I think he changed his mind and said it was for entry teams and people had just misunderstood.

I'm in the camp that would not use Saurez. There are some good schools out there, but there are an equal number of self proclaimed experts ready to take your money, so be careful what you choose.
 
Is Gabe an arrogant off-putting SOB? I would rather put up with that and get good training for a fair price than spend thousands and be coddled.
Click to expand...

This is a classic example of a false dichotomy. You can find really good trainers that are not arrogant off putting SOBs.
 
I have taught for Gabe both at his 2005 Warrior Talk Symposium and a two day point shooting class in October of 2007.
I was also able to watch him teach at both events.
While I never trained with any of his staff I found Gabe to be a very articulate, down to earth and very experienced instructor.
I especially enjoyed the ex police officer mindset that I usually seek out for my personal training.
My only "buyer beware" comment is that Gabe teaches only for the money.
Nothing wrong with that, but it does lead to a lot of marketing hype, pie in the sky claims, endless "new and improved" classes/equipment and a teaching style designed to drag things out as slow as possible.
Then again, the same can be said for other commercial instructors out there.
( A prime example is spending a half day of a two day "advanced" carbine class checking student's rifle zero at 50 yards..)
I think Gabe teaches some good stuff, but you may find his basic, older classes more practical then becoming an "Infedel warrior", "urban counter terrorist" or "combat ready medic".
Naturally just IMHO
To be honest I never found his conviction of teaching while on workman's comp to be an issue.
There was once a "disabled" N.Y.F.D firefighter ( who was earning a tax free disability pension of 75%) who ended up winning the annual foot race up the Empire State Building, and his media exposure gave most New Yorkers a chuckle as opposed to moral outrage.
Again, just IMHO.
 
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To be honest I never found his conviction of teaching while on workman's comp to be an issue.
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Yeah why would anyone care about doing business with a guy that is dishonest and a thief? Oh, and then talked about how he planned and took affirmative steps towards murdering the the people who he blamed for him getting caught until he decided not to go through with it. Yeah I see no issue what so ever with that stuff. Just the type of character I want to do business with and be around.
 
Yeah why would anyone care about doing business with a guy that is dishonest and a thief?

I truly hope that you are never in need of legal counsel.
 
I truly hope that you are never in need of legal counsel.
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That is neither here nor there as to whether Mr. Suarez is a thief. He plead guilty so there really isn't much question. Thanks for your concern for me. I actually work as legal counsel, criminal cases no less. One thing I have found is that very, very rarely do people who don't brake the law wind up in criminal courts. Even less often do they leave with a conviction. Further, most pennant folks A) don't blame others for their getting caught and B) don't feel like murdering those people and certainly don't take steps towards doing it.

If you don't think someone's track record for being honest is relevant before you get involved with them that is your prerogative. However, most folks would at least give that a moment of consideration.
 
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