Whats the difference between 338 lapua and 338 winchester?

[9mmepiphany]

my experience has been limited to trying other folks rifles while looking for my "first rifle".

i wouldn't have even ventured into the realm above .30 calibre except for a generous offer of fellow shooters. so my observations are based on someone with less than extensive experience.

the .338 Winchester, in a Reminton 700, comes with a lot of flash and bang and wasn't pleasant to shoot at all...like a loud .300 Winchester Mag

the .338 Lapua, in a Blaser, was better than i thought it would be...like a .375 H&H with more flash

if i ever feel a need for something larger than a 6.5mm or 7mm, i think i'll stick with the .375 H&H...but then i'm old and i like single shots

 

[saturno_v]

Difference between the 338 Win Mag and the 338 Lapua?? 200-250 fps (per same bullet weight) several thousands of dollars in rifle prices and a 60$ gap for a box of ammo.

Talking about a overhyped round...

From the own Lapua VihtaVuori reload data table this s the difference between a 338 Win Mag (24" barrels) and a 338 Lapua (27 1/2" barrel)

-----------338 WM-------- 338 Lapua


200 gr.----2993------------3297

225 gr. ---2809------------3065

250 gr. ---2765------------2989

300 gr. ---2479 -----------2746


Hodgdon data for the 338 WM (24" pipe), 340 Wby (26" barrel) and 338 Lapua (27" barrel)


------------338 WM--------340 Wby--------338 Lapua


200 gr.-----2989-----------3040------------3189

225 gr. ----2832-----------2889------------3040

250 gr.-----2657-----------2724------------2879

300 gr.-----2491-----------N/A-------------2677


Many people think there is a significant difference between the Lapua and the Win Mag.....not so much actually, considering the price difference for the 2 setup....you can buy an excellent 338 WM rifle for $400-450 (Weatherby Vanguard, Tikka, etc...)...try to touch a 338 Lapua rifle for less than 2K..granted a Lapua rifle is designed for extremely precision shooting...still you do not need that kind of hardware for hunting and even for non professional target shooting.

Some people can get faster fps numbers for their Lapuas but using very long barrels....however nobody prevents you from having a 338 WM with a very long barrel too...

IMHO, there is not much that a 338 Lapua can do that a 338 Win Mag cannot...

The Lapua is nearly in .50 BMG range.

Performance wise not even close....cost wise is probably even worse...

If you really want to get a real super boomer in 338 I would go 338 RUM or 338-378 Weaterby Magnum..both significantly more powerful than the Lapua for much less money....about $950 for a Remington 700 XCR in 338 RUM (as with the Lapua, the 338 RUM doesn't have a belt) or ~$1300-1500 for a Weatherby Mark V in 338-378

Also, about the 338RUM-- it will give very close results to the 338 Lapua.

The 338 RUM is more powerful than the Lapua...

If you really want to go exotic, then you can get a 338 Allen Magnum, based on a necked down and forward shouldered 408 Chey Tac case...300 gr. bullet at 3500+ fps...now that is 50 BMG territory...

 

[Beagle-zebub]

Now what is the difference in barrel-life between the two cartridges?

 

[Recoil1776]

The difference between the .338 Lapua Magnum and the .338 Winchester Magnum is about $1,000 - $2,000.

 

[SwampWolf]

338 Win Mag is basically a big, slow round for wholloping game.

In the context of what's out there, I don't consider the .338 Winchester Magnum especially "slow". It does have a potent "wallop" factor.

 

[Big44mag]

Haha, love the Gecko.

"We meet at the range every night and shoot 400 rounds each through weapons that closely resemble our duty setup. We also practice unarmed combat. I am a Master of three martial arts including ninjitsu, which means I can wear the special boots to climb walls."

 

[Cosmoline]

.338 WM has become one of the most if not the most popular rounds for big game hunting up here. It has a more violent recoil than a .375 H&H though and I'd rather go with the latter. It does have the advantage of both close range knockdown power and long range precision.

The Lapua is an uber-ultra-super-dooper amped up thingamabob that costs a fortune. I'm not sure what the practical application is other than extreme long range shooting.

 

[berettashotgun]

The Lapua 338 is very nice. And powerful.
As a general rule of thumb - the round is enhanced by the splendid selection of rifles it is chambered in. You (most often) get what you pay for.
As for myself, IF-IF-IF I had my heart set on a 338 caliber rifle as a first centerfire, then the 338WM would be for me simply for the convenience of ammo in a box at most places in North America; but I reload - so.....I bought a 338 RUM and a 338WM. Seem to work to much to enjoy them properly.
I know nothing of the Weatherby rounds - always out of my price range - but just looking at reloading manuals enlightened me on the very close performance characteristics of the 338 Remington ultra mag and the 338 Lapua; aka .270win 130gr vs. 7mm remmy 150gr.
I would love to have a rifle such as Zak has ( he has such cool stuff !), I would also have to give up some of my other hobbies to get it.
As to the poster - a 30-06 is awfully hard to beat, and like has been stated before - "It ain't the arrows - it's the Indian.
Zak more than likely ( 1,000+ to 1 ) is an excellent marksman from practice and confidence, something the chosen caliber has extremely minimal effect upon. Caliber helps, but practice,knowledge, and skill are most of it.

 

[woodybrighton2]

the .338 lapua is not much cheaper than .50bmg.
what it is though it allows you to have a weapon system that is still usable by a convetional military sniper
15lb for the Accuracy international .338 you can crawl with that
33lb for the Accuracy international .50 bmg your not going anywhere with that.

unless your very rich or the tax payer is picking up the bill
or your really really need to hit targets over 1000 metres away.
leave the lapua alone its a professional sniper round not because you should'nt have it but unless your regualrly shooting beyond the capabilty of a .308 your not going to get any value out of the system

 

[SwampWolf]

.338 WM has become one of the most if not the most popular rounds for big game hunting up here. It has a more violent recoil than a .375 H&H though

I'm not sure what you mean by "violent" (perceived? -read subjective) but my experience in shooting both calibers is that the .375 has a noticeably heavier recoil than does the .338, everything else being equal. Edward Matunas, in his book American Ammunition and Ballistics, reports the free recoil of the .338 to be 40.2 ft. lbs. with a 250 grain bullet and the .375 to be 42.2 ft. lbs. with a 270 grain bullet, both rifles weighing eight pounds. Given the fact that the .375's recoil figure was computed with a bullet twenty grains heavier than that of the .338, it would seem that they are pretty equivalent in terms of "free recoil" for most practical purposes. Ym, I guess, mv.

 

[Arkel23]

.338 Lapua has monster ballistics. The .338 Win mag doesn't compare to it, and neither of them compare to the .338 Allen Mag, but go for the weatherby, and just get a .300 Weatherby Mag, or a 7mm rem mag.

 

[saturno_v]

338 Lapua has monster ballistics. The .338 Win mag doesn't compare to it,

Arkel....

Does 200-250 fps average (in some bullet weight is actually below 200 fps) of difference qualify as "monster, doesn't compare with a 338 Win Mag???" I think not....reloading data tables don't lie...

Now, a 338-378 or, better, a 338 Allen Magun they do have monster ballistic vastly outperforming a 338 WM...a 338 Lapua?? Not so much....

the Hornady Heavy Magnum 338 Win Mag in 225 gr. comes only 100 fps short of the published numbers for the overhyped Lapua round....and for only $35-40 a box.

What really sets the 338 Lapua rifles apart are the platform (accuracy and very long barrels) more than the cartridge di per se.

The ballistic numbers alone are not that impressive...basically is almost a ballistic twin of the 340 Weahterby Magnum and behind 338 RUM and 338-378 Weatherby Magnum....Now the 338 Allen Magnum is on another planet compared to these....3500+ fps for a 300 gr. bullet....the 338-378, by far the most powerful of the trio of the factory super 338 magnums (with 338 Lapua and 338 RUM) can "only" reach 2850 fps with the same 300 gr. bullet.

 

[Zak Smith]

Monster is a matter of perspective. However, for long-range applications, the 300WM matches the 338WM for wind and beats it handily for drop. 7mm RM walks all over it, as does the 338LM.

_Bullet_           _BC_ _MV_         0     200     400     600     800    1000    1200 | YARDS
338LM 250         0.675 2975 >    0.00    1.65    6.90   16.26   30.34   49.85   75.67 | wind (inches)
7RM 180           0.680 2950 >    0.00    1.66    6.93   16.33   30.45   50.02   75.91 | wind (inches)
7RM 162           0.625 3075 >    0.00    1.70    7.15   16.91   31.67   52.25   79.67 | wind (inches)
300WM 210         0.640 2900 >    0.00    1.81    7.59   17.94   33.59   55.42   84.44 | wind (inches)
338WM 250         0.675 2765 >    0.00    1.83    7.67   18.10   33.81   55.66   84.53 | wind (inches)
300WM 190         0.584 3050 >    0.00    1.85    7.80   18.52   34.83   57.76   88.50 | wind (inches)
260               0.615 2900 >    0.00    1.89    7.93   18.79   35.26   58.34   89.09 | wind (inches)
308               0.508 2930 >    0.00    2.27    9.66   23.18   44.10   73.97  114.19 | wind (inches)

338LM 250         0.675 2975 >   -0.00    0.32    1.49    2.94    4.63    6.60    8.88 | drop (mil)
7RM 180           0.680 2950 >   -0.00    0.33    1.53    3.00    4.71    6.70    9.02 | drop (mil)
7RM 162           0.625 3075 >   -0.00    0.29    1.39    2.78    4.41    6.32    8.58 | drop (mil)
300WM 210         0.640 2900 >   -0.00    0.36    1.62    3.18    5.02    7.17    9.72 | drop (mil)
338WM 250         0.675 2765 >   -0.00    0.42    1.81    3.51    5.50    7.82   10.53 | drop (mil)
300WM 190         0.584 3050 >   -0.00    0.30    1.44    2.89    4.62    6.67    9.13 | drop (mil)
260               0.615 2900 >   -0.00    0.36    1.63    3.22    5.10    7.32    9.96 | drop (mil)
308               0.508 2930 >   -0.00    0.36    1.67    3.35    5.42    7.97   11.13 | drop (mil)

All the 338WM does over the 300WM is deliver about 40 grains more lead on target.

 

[ronbuick]

If you are thinking of the .338 Lapua, why not check out the CheyTac .408, for
whatever your reasons are on game!!! or target shooting. And made in this great
state of Idaho.

Ron

 

[saturno_v]

If you are thinking of the .338 Lapua, why not check out the CheyTac .408, for
whatever your reasons are on game!!! or target shooting. And made in this great
state of Idaho.

Ron
Today 09:19 PM

That is exactly my point...if you are dead set on an over 10 pounds rifle, go for a real supermonster....a 338-378 already outperform significantly a 338 LM.

A 338 Allen Magnum setup tip the scale at "only" 13 pounds...and ballistically put the Lapua round to shame...

 

[saturno_v]

Zak

Do not forget that most rifle chambered for the 338 WM nowdays have "only" 24" barrels.

There are people with match barrels of 28" and they can put out quite the numbers with the 338 WM.

However the point is not if the Lapua is superior ballistically to the 338 WM....of course it is, however the difference is not that impressive and for less money you can actually get even higher performances with the 338 TUM or the 338-378

 

[Zak Smith]

Heck, most of the long-range .308's, .260's, 7's, and .300's weigh over 15# fully put together.

The cost of shooting .338 is quite expensive. Going to something with a larger head size than .338LM is even more expensive still.

The sweet spot for affordable excellent extreme long-range ballistics is the 7mm magnums. Within 1200 yards, the sweet spot is a .260 or 6.5-284.

While extreme velocity (e.g. from the Allen Magnum) is attractive on the surface, that potential would be better spent on pushing a higher BC bullet at a more "moderate" velocity-- and by moderate in this context I mean around 3000 fps. The Allen Magnum is reported to shoot the 300gr SMK (BC 0.76) at 3400+ fps. If you could shoot a 1.0 BC bullet at only 3000 fps, that would beat the 300gr SMK Allen Magnum load for wind at 1200 yards and further:

_Bullet_           _BC_ _MV_         0     200     400     600     800    1000    1200    1400    1600 | YARDS
338AM             0.77* 3450 >    0.00    1.20    4.93   11.47   21.14   34.34   51.53   73.26  100.17 | wind (inches)
???               1.000 3000 >    0.00    1.09    4.47   10.37   19.01   30.66   45.62   64.22   86.85 | wind (inches)

338AM             0.77* 3450 >   -0.00    0.16    0.97    1.98    3.13    4.43    5.91    7.58    9.49 | drop (mil)
???               1.000 3000 >   -0.00    0.29    1.37    2.64    4.06    5.63    7.35    9.25   11.35 | drop (mil)

Remember that for a given bullet technology, the maximum realizable BC scales roughly as caliber because its corresponding bullet OAL can be longer.

-z

 

[saturno_v]

While extreme velocity (e.g. from the Allen Magnum) is attractive on the surface, that potential would be better spent on pushing a higher BC bullet at a more "moderate" velocity-- and by moderate in this context I mean around 3000 fps. The Allen Magnum is reported to shoot the 300gr SMK (BC 0.76) at 3400+ fps. If you could shoot a 1.0 BC bullet at only 3000 fps, that would beat the 300gr SMK Allen Magnum load for wind at 1200 yards and further:

I totally agree.....and the 338 Allen Magnum to get that kind of performance needs barrels of 32" or even more....


Zak, as far as you know, what are the heaviest 338 bullets available out there over 300 gr.??? What is the best 338 bullet, as far as BC, on the market?

 

[Zak Smith]

It is true the .338RUM is the "poor man's Lapua" and matches it ballistically. However, long-range shooting is the wrong application for .338WM. Compared to other cartridges, it seems best suited as a short and medium range whompin' hunting cartridge.

 

[Zak Smith]

I know of two conventional high-BC 300's: the Scenar and the SMK. These are in the 0.75 - 0.78 range (at least starting BC). I know of some 300gr solids that have a BC of 0.869.

 

[saturno_v]

It is true the .338RUM is the "poor man's Lapua" and matches it ballistically. However, long-range shooting is the wrong application for .338WM. Compared to other cartridges, it seems best suited as a short and medium range whompin' hunting cartridge.

Yep...actually the 338 RUM outperform the Lapua (according to the Hodgdon Reload data center).

Yes, the 338 WM is more of a hunting round than an extreme long range cartridge, however it hold its own even past 1000 yards

With a 300 gr. Sierra Matchking bullet (BC 0.768) using the JBM online calculator, for the 338 Win Mag I get ~1600 ft/lb left at 1000 yards (almost the same energy of a 30-30 Win at the muzzle) with the slug still flying at 1547 fps (Mach 1.38)...not too shabby I think....

 

[Zak Smith]

I have shot both and found the max loads about the same. Actually, I could use my .338LM loads interchangeably in the .338RUM.

Here's the 300gr @ 2490 fps (per your above post) in comparison to some others

_Bullet_           _BC_ _MV_         0     200     400     600     800    1000    1200    1400    1600 | YARDS
338LM             0.77* 2800 >    0.00    1.57    6.55   15.35   28.53   46.67   70.53  100.84  138.22 | wind (inches)
338LM 250         0.675 2975 >    0.00    1.65    6.90   16.26   30.34   49.85   75.67  108.67  149.60 | wind (inches)
7RM 180           0.680 2950 >    0.00    1.66    6.93   16.33   30.45   50.02   75.91  108.96  149.92 | wind (inches)
7RM 162           0.625 3075 >    0.00    1.70    7.15   16.91   31.67   52.25   79.67  114.94  158.89 | wind (inches)
338WM 300         0.77* 2490 >    0.00    1.86    7.77   18.29   34.08   55.93   84.48  120.35  163.70 | wind (inches)
300WM 210         0.640 2900 >    0.00    1.81    7.59   17.94   33.59   55.42   84.44  121.52  167.32 | wind (inches)
338WM 250         0.675 2765 >    0.00    1.83    7.67   18.10   33.81   55.66   84.53  121.20  166.17 | wind (inches)
300WM 190         0.584 3050 >    0.00    1.85    7.80   18.52   34.83   57.76   88.50  128.10  177.28 | wind (inches)
260               0.615 2900 >    0.00    1.89    7.93   18.79   35.26   58.34   89.09  128.44  176.90 | wind (inches)
308               0.508 2930 >    0.00    2.27    9.66   23.18   44.10   73.97  114.19  165.40  226.74 | wind (inches)

338LM             0.77* 2800 >   -0.00    0.39    1.71    3.29    5.12    7.19    9.58   12.32   15.48 | drop (mil)
338LM 250         0.675 2975 >   -0.00    0.32    1.49    2.94    4.63    6.60    8.88   11.55   14.70 | drop (mil)
7RM 180           0.680 2950 >   -0.00    0.33    1.53    3.00    4.71    6.70    9.02   11.73   14.91 | drop (mil)
7RM 162           0.625 3075 >   -0.00    0.29    1.39    2.78    4.41    6.32    8.58   11.27   14.46 | drop (mil)
338WM 300         0.77* 2490 >   -0.00    0.57    2.29    4.34    6.70    9.42   12.55   16.17   20.34 | drop (mil)
300WM 210         0.640 2900 >   -0.00    0.36    1.62    3.18    5.02    7.17    9.72   12.73   16.30 | drop (mil)
338WM 250         0.675 2765 >   -0.00    0.42    1.81    3.51    5.50    7.82   10.53   13.71   17.45 | drop (mil)
300WM 190         0.584 3050 >   -0.00    0.30    1.44    2.89    4.62    6.67    9.13   12.10   15.68 | drop (mil)
260               0.615 2900 >   -0.00    0.36    1.63    3.22    5.10    7.32    9.96   13.11   16.87 | drop (mil)
308               0.508 2930 >   -0.00    0.36    1.67    3.35    5.42    7.97   11.13   15.04   19.84 | drop (mil)

Compared to the 7mm RM/WSM, the 338WM shooting 300's has twice the recoil (FRE) but inferior trajectory performance.

 

[saturno_v]

Zak

Yep the 7 mm Magnums have impressive trajectories....the problem is at 1000 yards how much oomph do they have left?? A quick glance at some ballistic tables at Snipercentral got me 870 ft/lb left at 1K with a 190 gr. Sierra Matchking for the 300 WM (no too bad) and less than 700 ft/lb for the 7mm RM (168 gr. Sierra Matchking)

Strictly against an unprotected human target they are fine, however the 338 WM carries double the energy at the same distance mark (more than double compared to the 7mm RM) with a significanly higher bullet weight and SD ...in theory you can still knock down a Moose or a bear with that kind of energy left (bullet tipology aside...)

You can get a little bit over 2500 fps with a 338 WM in a 24" pipe without going overpessure, quite a bit more in 26 or 28" barrels.

One guy I know at the range has a beautiful custom rifle based on a Rem 700 action mated to a match 28" barrel in 338 WM...gorgeaous stock...the works.

He told me that he did put down Elk with authority at over 600 yards....

 

[saturno_v]

I just run the numbers for a 338 Allen Magnum 300 gr. Sierra Matchking at 3555 fps MV....at 1000 y you have 3511 ft/lb left with the bullet still flying at Mach 2!!! ...Same energy of a 300 WM at the muzzle....Ouch!!!

What a monster....

 

[Zak Smith]

The way I look at it, the terminal energy is moot if it's a miss. The 180gr 7mm RM/WSM load has 31% less momentum than the 338WM/300gr load at 1000 yards, and 20% less K.E. The 338WM has 40% more drop, which is relevant because it means precision ranging is more important. And if you're seriously shooting elk at 1000 yards, you can afford to shoot a LM/RUM instead.