What's the difference in primers?

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gun'sRgood

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Pre pandemic, or as soon as I saw c-19 getting into the USA, I bought all the primers I could find. I also posted that it might be wise for others to do the same. Anyway, part of what I got was #7 Small Rifle Bench Rest Primers by Remington. I've got primers by just about by anyone who made them. Small pistol primers soon got the hardest to find. The question here is, what makes Remington's call these Bench Rest?
 
Bench Rest primers are suppose to be the most consistent primers a company makes. Several others, like CCI, make them also. I've heard they are produced by the most experienced operators, so the quality is better. I've used both in my .233 and 6.5 Creedmoor. I don't notice a difference, but I only shoot to 100 yards, and do not compete.
 
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Bench Rest primers are suppose to be the most consistent primers a company makes. Several others, like CCI, make them also. I've heard they are produced by the most experienced operators, so the quality is better. I've used both in my .233 and 6.5 Creedmoor. I don't notice a difference, but I only shoot to 100 yards, and do not compete.
That pretty much covers it. Personally I have only shot out to 500 yards and never really saw any difference worth mentioning. That includes .223 Remington and .308 Winchester.

Ron
 
maybe @LiveLife did a "Myth" thread on bench versus standard primers
No need as Germán Salazar's "The Rifleman's Journal" has already done a study of rifle primers for 1000 yard Palma match loads (Be patient as archived pages load slowly) and for pistol, I believe there are too many other reloading/shooting variables that will overshadow - https://web.archive.org/web/2015030...ansjournal.blogspot.com/p/articles-index.html

Primers - Small Rifle Primer Study
Primers - Large Rifle Primer Study
Primers: Wolf .223 Primer Flash Test


FWIW, from The WSTIAC Journal, publication of the Weapon Systems Technology Information Analysis Center (WSTIAC), a Department of Defense (DoD) Information Analysis Center - https://web.archive.org/web/20131013021204/http://wstiac.alionscience.com/pdf/WQV11N2.pdf
  • Primer - Diameter (mm) - Peak Pressure (kPa) - SD (kPa) - SD (%)
  • Fed 210M - 5.33 - 2908 - 223 - 7.7%
  • Fed 215M - 5.33 - 3811 - 192 - 5.0%
  • CCI 200 - 5.33 - 2561 - 270 - 10.7%
  • CCI 250 - 5.33 - 3587 - 404 - 11.3%
  • DDNP KVB-7E - 5.33 - 1186 - 296 - 25.0%
  • Rem 7 ½ - 4.45 - 2303 - 186 - 8.1%
  • Fed 205 - 4.45 - 1469 - 103 - 7.1%
  • CCI 450 - 4.45 - 1602 - 104 - 6.5%
  • Fed 205M - 4.45 - 1434 - 103 - 7.2%
  • DDNP KVB-9E - 4.45 - 1331 - 109 - 8.2%
"Table 1 shows average peak pressures along with standard deviations from the mean for the primers in this study. Primers of diameter 5.33 mm are labeled 'large', and primers of diameter 4.45 mm are labeled 'small' by manufacturers. Except for the DDNP-based large rifle primer, large rifle primers produce stronger blast waves than small primers, and 'magnum' rifle primers (Fed 215M, CCI 250) produce stronger blast waves than non-magnum primers of the same size.

There are significant differences in the standard deviations observed for different primer types, and it is notable that so-called 'Match' primers are not always more consistent than non-match primers. Perhaps most notable is that in each group (large and small), the standard deviation of the DDNP-based primer is the largest percentage of its mean value. For the large rifle primers, the standard deviation of the DDNP-based primer (25%) is more than twice the stand"
 
No need as Germán Salazar's "The Rifleman's Journal" has already done a study of rifle primers for 1000 yard Palma match loads (Be patient as archived pages load slowly) and for pistol, I believe there are too many other reloading/shooting variables that will overshadow - https://web.archive.org/web/2015030...ansjournal.blogspot.com/p/articles-index.html

Primers - Small Rifle Primer Study
Primers - Large Rifle Primer Study
Primers: Wolf .223 Primer Flash Test


FWIW, from The WSTIAC Journal, publication of the Weapon Systems Technology Information Analysis Center (WSTIAC), a Department of Defense (DoD) Information Analysis Center - https://web.archive.org/web/20131013021204/http://wstiac.alionscience.com/pdf/WQV11N2.pdf
  • Primer - Diameter (mm) - Peak Pressure (kPa) - SD (kPa) - SD (%)
  • Fed 210M - 5.33 - 2908 - 223 - 7.7%
  • Fed 215M - 5.33 - 3811 - 192 - 5.0%
  • CCI 200 - 5.33 - 2561 - 270 - 10.7%
  • CCI 250 - 5.33 - 3587 - 404 - 11.3%
  • DDNP KVB-7E - 5.33 - 1186 - 296 - 25.0%
  • Rem 7 ½ - 4.45 - 2303 - 186 - 8.1%
  • Fed 205 - 4.45 - 1469 - 103 - 7.1%
  • CCI 450 - 4.45 - 1602 - 104 - 6.5%
  • Fed 205M - 4.45 - 1434 - 103 - 7.2%
  • DDNP KVB-9E - 4.45 - 1331 - 109 - 8.2%
"Table 1 shows average peak pressures along with standard deviations from the mean for the primers in this study. Primers of diameter 5.33 mm are labeled 'large', and primers of diameter 4.45 mm are labeled 'small' by manufacturers. Except for the DDNP-based large rifle primer, large rifle primers produce stronger blast waves than small primers, and 'magnum' rifle primers (Fed 215M, CCI 250) produce stronger blast waves than non-magnum primers of the same size.

There are significant differences in the standard deviations observed for different primer types, and it is notable that so-called 'Match' primers are not always more consistent than non-match primers. Perhaps most notable is that in each group (large and small), the standard deviation of the DDNP-based primer is the largest percentage of its mean value. For the large rifle primers, the standard deviation of the DDNP-based primer (25%) is more than twice the stand"
The link still comes back as broken for me. Says the page no longer exists. Maybe my blocker is turned up too high. Oh well as long as it works for the folks looking for answers.
 
No need as Germán Salazar's "The Rifleman's Journal" has already done a study of rifle primers for 1000 yard Palma match loads (Be patient as archived pages load slowly) and for pistol, I believe there are too many other reloading/shooting variables that will overshadow - https://web.archive.org/web/2015030...ansjournal.blogspot.com/p/articles-index.html

Primers - Small Rifle Primer Study
Primers - Large Rifle Primer Study
Primers: Wolf .223 Primer Flash Test


FWIW, from The WSTIAC Journal, publication of the Weapon Systems Technology Information Analysis Center (WSTIAC), a Department of Defense (DoD) Information Analysis Center - https://web.archive.org/web/20131013021204/http://wstiac.alionscience.com/pdf/WQV11N2.pdf
  • Primer - Diameter (mm) - Peak Pressure (kPa) - SD (kPa) - SD (%)
  • Fed 210M - 5.33 - 2908 - 223 - 7.7%
  • Fed 215M - 5.33 - 3811 - 192 - 5.0%
  • CCI 200 - 5.33 - 2561 - 270 - 10.7%
  • CCI 250 - 5.33 - 3587 - 404 - 11.3%
  • DDNP KVB-7E - 5.33 - 1186 - 296 - 25.0%
  • Rem 7 ½ - 4.45 - 2303 - 186 - 8.1%
  • Fed 205 - 4.45 - 1469 - 103 - 7.1%
  • CCI 450 - 4.45 - 1602 - 104 - 6.5%
  • Fed 205M - 4.45 - 1434 - 103 - 7.2%
  • DDNP KVB-9E - 4.45 - 1331 - 109 - 8.2%
"Table 1 shows average peak pressures along with standard deviations from the mean for the primers in this study. Primers of diameter 5.33 mm are labeled 'large', and primers of diameter 4.45 mm are labeled 'small' by manufacturers. Except for the DDNP-based large rifle primer, large rifle primers produce stronger blast waves than small primers, and 'magnum' rifle primers (Fed 215M, CCI 250) produce stronger blast waves than non-magnum primers of the same size.

There are significant differences in the standard deviations observed for different primer types, and it is notable that so-called 'Match' primers are not always more consistent than non-match primers. Perhaps most notable is that in each group (large and small), the standard deviation of the DDNP-based primer is the largest percentage of its mean value. For the large rifle primers, the standard deviation of the DDNP-based primer (25%) is more than twice the stand"
Hey thanks! I watched a video of a guy working in Remington. I had no idea that it, well it looked like he was taking a putty knife and stroking the knife back and forth over a mesh. Kind of a 2'x2' sheet with holes the size of primers and the depth of the sheet with the holes. That surprised me. I guess I was thinking that in this day and age there would be some robot putting exact measurements and pressure or something like that. I done a fair amount of work with putty and drywall knives and it seems that creating uneven pressure would be very easy to do. I mean, just a little bit more or less would to me, make a noticeable difference? And what's a magnum small pistol primer?
 
Don't know what to say ... this is the screenshot I got.

Can other members chime in to see if they can view the link?

https://web.archive.org/web/2015030...ansjournal.blogspot.com/p/articles-index.html

index.php


And small primer study page - https://web.archive.org/web/2015030...2009/06/primers-small-rifle-primer-study.html

index.php
 

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Pre pandemic, or as soon as I saw c-19 getting into the USA, I bought all the primers I could find. I also posted that it might be wise for others to do the same. Anyway, part of what I got was #7 Small Rifle Bench Rest Primers by Remington. I've got primers by just about by anyone who made them. Small pistol primers soon got the hardest to find. The question here is, what makes Remington's call these Bench Rest?

There has been some great information provided in this thread!

Take a look at this:

Mysteries And Misconceptions Of The All-Important Primer

http://www.shootingtimes.com/2011/01/04/ammunition_st_mamotaip_200909/

A bud of mine used to go to a Military Ammunition plant, and since he was interested in small arms, was interested in the processes. He told me that primer cake is mixed by hand. And then it is tested in a "mule". The information this mule provides was amazing, I know he said mass ejected, surely there was dwell, time to peak, flame temperature, energy, duration, and a bunch of other variables I can't think of. The worker whose primer cake was the most consistent, got a cash award. And who got the award, changed. Making the best primer cake of the day was not a sure thing. I wish I knew what parameters were measured.

You can expect primer cake to differ from day to day, as the percentages of the ingredients are plus or minus

The military primer mix is or was the FA 956 mix,

PATR 2700 Encyclopedia of Explosives Vol 8 gives the composition

FA 956

Lead Styphanate 37.7 +/- 5%
Tetracene 4.0 +/- 1%
Barium Nitrate 32.0 +/- 5%
Antimony Sulfide 15.0 +/- 2%
Aluminum Powder 7.0 +/- 1%
PETN 5.0 +/- 1%
Gum Arabic 0.2%

Given that percentages vary, and that ingredient purity varies, I am certain primer ignition characteristics also vary. However, we the public have no idea what the variances are, as the manufacturer's are not releasing that data.

From articles past, the Federal "Match" and I assume Remington Bench Rest, are primers that are more consistent in test, at the end of the production line.

We don't know the sample size. Lets say forty primers were tested per lot, and the best lot gets labeled as "Bench Rest" and sold at a ridiculous mark up. Is 40 primers enough to prove an entire lot of 100,000 primers (guess) is superior to other lots of 100,000 primers?. I don't know, and I am going to say, until we understand what characteristics are being tested, the limits of these characteristics, the number of primers tested, the lot size, we really don't know much about the goodness of the primers, do we?
 
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what makes Remington's call these Bench Rest?

That's a good question. Remington 7 1/2's used to be just 7 1/2's and nothing more. At some point Remington added the "Bench Rest" designation without also providing a non-benchrest version. At least in their mind they are consistent enough to warrant it, although the data in post #6 doesn't necessarily support that. It's still my favorite SR primer and I'm disappointed that I'm down to my last 150.
 
The question here is, what makes Remington's call these Bench Rest?

It's just a marketing moniker that came about in the 1970's. What they really should be called are 'Magnums' due to their thicker cups and increased brisance. When they appended the words 'Bench Rest' to the 7½ primers they also changed the packaging from red to green....that was fifty years ago
 
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