What's the slowest powder for useful 308 loads?

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Bexar

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I understand even though they're listed in the manuals some powders in the slow burn rate are either inconsistent or don't develop velocities in the 90% range of factory.

I've got IMR 3031...H450...IMR4350...and IMR 7828...H4831.

It's to be fired in a Savage Axis.

165 Sierra Gamekings and 168 Sierra Matchkings.

I'd like to keep my IMR4895...H335 and BL-C2 for my semi-auto loadings but if necessary I'll use these. Not interested in boomers...about a 300 yard max Whitetail...hog round. Again...300 yard max but not likely.

Thanks...Bexar
 
Though my personal experience handling the .308 is very limited, I believe 4350 is probably as slow as you can go and maintain reasonable performance and consistency. And that is with heavier bullets. Rule of thumb seems to be what works well in .223 generally works well in .308 with popular bullet weights (125 - 165 gr). I don't believe you would be happy with H-450, H4831 or IMR-7828 in the .308. Sadly, that powder burn rate seems to be the most commonly available these days.
 
I'm interested in this as well. I love my IMR4895 for my .308 axis and have a pound of IMR4064 to try next, but other options are always nice.
 
I think RL17 is pretty slow in this application. It should work pretty well for heavier bullets of 180 grs. and up.

GS
 
Of the four powders you mentioned (IMR 3031...H450...IMR4350...and IMR 7828...H4831), only IMR3031 is really a viable option with 165-168gr bullets. The .308 really doesn't have enough case capacity to use slow burning powders effectively. When I did load development work with the 190SMK in .308, the only slow burning powder that I could get decent velocity with was Vihta Vouri N550. And, you're using an even lighter bullet.

Don
 
I'm looking at the Sierra manual (second edition) right now and I think I'm going to run the first batch of 165 gr. Hollowpoint Gamekings with 47 grains of IMR4350. That's 2.4 grains below max suggested. Extrapolating (edumacated guessing) that should give a velocity of, mas o menos, 1900 fps at 300 yards according to Sierra's tables. That leaves 1325 ft/lbs which is like 2 1/2+ times a 357 mag at point blank range.

She's shot Remington 150 gr factory in the Axis and didn't complain about recoil so she should be good to go. Three-hundred yards is an awful long shot but considering the different terrain she might be hunting in from East Texas (spitting distance) to West Texas (walking distance) she should be covered.

I also like the IMR4350 because it's a stick powder similar to IMR 4895 so it shouldn't require a magnum primer. (?)

What do y'all suggest for a primer since the IMR 4350 is a slower burning powder than IMR 4895? Military Match LC67 brass.

Thanks y'all. Bexar
 
Don...thanks...your excellent response on the 3031 is something to consider. I'm a number cruncher and that's one of the more enjoyable things I find with reloading; otherwise, I'd buy her factory Remington 150 grain core-lockts and be done with it. But...that's no fun.

Going with your suggestion and 2ndtimer's comment on the IMR 4350 I will probably load a box of each and let her play with that along with a couple of boxes of some IMR 4895 and BL-C2 or H335 for grins backed off a little from max. She doesn't need max and anything that knocks around 1900 fps at 300 should suffice even if she goes on an Axis deer hunt. Axis are lousy all over the place now here in Texas and can be hunted year round so opportunities...opportunities.

Oh...what primer do you use with the 3031?

Thanks.
 
Last edited:
USSR said:
Whatever standard LRP primer you have.



Don
Click to expand...


+1. Use what ya got. I personally use CCI 250, but that's only because I started out using the large rifle magnum in my 7mm RM and didn't want even the slightest possibility of mixing up LR primers with LRM primers or vice versa in the wrong loads. So is just developed all my large rifle primer loads using the CCI 250's. Which includes the 7mm RM, .243 and .308. Just started my loads low and worked up.
 
Bexar said:
I understand even though they're listed in the manuals some powders in the slow burn rate are either inconsistent or don't develop velocities in the 90% range of factory.

I've got IMR 3031...H450...IMR4350...and IMR 7828...H4831.

It's to be fired in a Savage Axis.

165 Sierra Gamekings and 168 Sierra Matchkings.

I'd like to keep my IMR4895...H335 and BL-C2 for my semi-auto loadings but if necessary I'll use these. Not interested in boomers...about a 300 yard max Whitetail...hog round. Again...300 yard max but not likely.

Thanks...Bexar
Click to expand...
Like said well by Don, the only powder on that list that is practical for loading the .308 is 3031. If you were willing to use the other powders you have both 4895 and BL-C(2) are very good choices.

If you want a really good .308 win powder try to find some IMR-4064, you will like it! For some reason even though it's very close to the performance of 4895 on paper it shines in the .308 Win.

Again like said above, standard primers are all you need in that cartridge. even when a Ball powder is used you're not using enough of it and it's not slow enough to require a magnum strength primer.

I think you would be much better served using IMR-4895 or finding some IMR-4064 for loading those 165/168gr bullets in the .308...

Please let us know how it goes when you make up some test loads.
 
Can't imagine why you think the burn rate of the powder makes any difference, but I'd use nothing but IMR4064. And you must work up the load from the starting load, not just pick one and hope.
Don't use the Matchkings for anything but targets and varmints. Match grade bullets are kind of wasted in a hunting rifle anyway. Axis barrels aren't up to 'em.
 
Sunray said:
Can't imagine why you think the burn rate of the powder makes any difference, but I'd use nothing but IMR4064. And you must work up the load from the starting load, not just pick one and hope.

Don't use the Matchkings for anything but targets and varmints. Match grade bullets are kind of wasted in a hunting rifle anyway. Axis barrels aren't up to 'em.
Click to expand...


What? MatchKings? LOL. They sure are up to shooting SMK. I shot plenty of them. That was my match load for my Axis. 175gr SMK over 4064. Shot great. Even going through a string of 22 in a 22 minute time limit. Shot in the 180's using them.

But you are correct though that they are not a hunting round by far.
 
168 GR. Matchkings can be used for hunting under certain conditions. Turkey head shots and coyote and varmint elimination. I've shot a doe with one and there was an entrance and exit wound and the heart looked like chunked Jello.

That said...the doe was Texas sized and shot at 50 yards+/- at 30-06 velocities. There were small chunks of lead dispersed towards the off side but the majority of the lead core went out the other side.

Many deer in regions of Texas are nothing more than the size of a Great Dane, if even that, and a heavier constructed bullet will pretty much be coming out the other side before it's doing its designed expansion.

Anyway, my argument is anecdotal and specific in application.

When deer start field dressing out at 200 pounds instead of our 60 to 80 pound dressed out Hill Country deer then the Gamekings would probably be a better choice.
 
Sunray said:
Can't imagine why you think the burn rate of the powder makes any difference, but I'd use nothing but IMR4064.
Click to expand...
Are you serious or playing around? Powder burn rate doesn't make a difference? There is so much wrong with that statement I don't know where to start. You might not want to give any more advice until you brush up on your reading...
 
Bexar said:
168 GR. Matchkings can be used for hunting under certain conditions. Turkey head shots and coyote and varmint elimination. I've shot a doe with one and there was an entrance and exit wound and the heart looked like chunked Jello.



That said...the doe was Texas sized and shot at 50 yards+/- at 30-06 velocities. There were small chunks of lead dispersed towards the off side but the majority of the lead core went out the other side.



Many deer in regions of Texas are nothing more than the size of a Great Dane, if even that, and a heavier constructed bullet will pretty much be coming out the other side before it's doing its designed expansion.



Anyway, my argument is anecdotal and specific in application.



When deer start field dressing out at 200 pounds instead of our 60 to 80 pound dressed out Hill Country deer then the Gamekings would probably be a better choice.
Click to expand...


Oh I remember the deer size around Abilene from being stationed there. You're right, I used to call them luggage deer. No bigger than a suitcase. Just pick'em up and carry them out. Lol
 
jwrowland77 said:
Oh I remember the deer size around Abilene from being stationed there. You're right, I used to call them luggage deer. No bigger than a suitcase. Just pick'em up and carry them out. Lol
Click to expand...
And Abilene have some of our larger deer. :p

True story...We were taking my older Brother up to Syracuse University to go to college. Mom was driving and it was night. A deer jumped out on the highway and Dad pointed as he exclaimed, HORSE!!!. My Dad was not a city boy by any means but in that sudden instant he saw the size and his brain processed horse.

We didn't hit it thank-God because I've seen how badly a Texas deer can tear up a Full size Cadsiliac.

We had one hunter from up there somewhere that kept shooting over the deer. When he finally got back to camp and saw the other hunter's deer he realized he had overestimated the range in the morning light and had shot over the deer.

Please allow me to Thank-you for your service. Were you involved with the B-1s?
 
I experimented with IMR 4350 and 155’s, because I had them, and the velocities were less than I wanted. Somewhere around 46 to 47 grains the case will be full of 4350. I have tested 190’s with IMR 4350 and the velocities were still too slow, but bud’s of mine found very light 308 cases, weighing around 150 grains (or less?) and were able to pack enough IMR 4350 to get respectable velocities.



Code: 
[SIZE="3"][B]Pre-64 M70 [/B]						
24 " Krieger  Barrel 1:10 twist													
155 Nosler 46.0 grs IMR 4350 wtd, Lot 6164 (60's) mixed cases CCI 200 OAL 2.780"	
								
29 May 2010 T =  82 °F							
								
Ave Vel =	2418						
Std Dev =	17						
ES =	60							
High =	2441							
Low =	2381							
N =	10							
								
155 Nosler 47.0 grs IMR 4350 wtd, Lot 6164 (60's) mixed cases CCI 200 OAL 2.790"	
								
29 May 2010 T =  82 °F							
								
Ave Vel =	2490				 		
Std Dev =	17				 		
ES =	59				 			
High =	2515				 			
Low =	2456				 			
N =	10							
								
best IMR 4350 group



150 gr Hornady FMJBT 43.5 grs AA2520 wtd Lot 9595 Czech Mixed LC WLR  OAL 2.785"	
	 							
29 May 2010 T =  83 °F														
Ave Vel =	2785						
Std Dev =	23						
ES =	75							
High =	2820							
Low =	2745							
N =	14	

							
								
155 Nosler 42.0 grs IMR 4895  thrown, Lot L7926 TZ cases CCI#34  OAL 2.750"		
								
29 May 2010 T =  83 °F														
Ave Vel =	2677				 		
Std Dev =	27				 		
ES =	76				 			
High =	2727				 			
Low =	2651				 			
N =	8							
								
Best Clustering , better than IMR 4350 groups[/SIZE]

IMR 3031 is a great powder to use in the 308 with your bullets. You ought to hit a sweet spot with 165 grain bullets between 39 and 40.0 grains.

Code: 
[SIZE="3"]

[B]Ruger M77 MKII[/B] 		
26 " Barrel 1:10 twist							
								
168 Nosler 39.0 grs IMR3031 wtd Lot FE23B LC72  CCI#34 			
	27-Nov-06		T = 60 ° F	OAL 2.80"			
								
Ave Vel =	2513				 		
Std Dev =	15				 		
ES =	51				 	 		
High =	2534				 	 		
Low =	2483				 	 		
N =	10		 					
excellent accuracy	nice rounded primers								
								
168 Nosler 40.0 grs IMR3031 wtd Lot FE23B LC72  CCI#34 			
	27-Nov-06	T = 62 ° F		OAL 2.80"		
								
Ave Vel =	2568				 		
Std Dev =	16				 		
ES =	48				 	 		
High =	2590				 	 		
Low =	2542				 	 		
N =	10		 					
excellent accuracy	nice rounded primers		
 best group of IMR 3031 series  note, the LC72 brass was on fifth reloading, fifth sizing				
								
168 Sierra Matchking 40.0 grs IMR 3031 Lot FE2B LC90 CC#34		OAL 2.750" 
					
30 April 2008 T =  71 °F						
								
Ave Vel =	2560						
Std Dev =	36						
ES =	114							
High =	2626							
Low =	2512							
N =	10							
								
168 Nosler 41.0 grs IMR3031 wtd Lot FE23B LC72  CCI#34 			
	27-Nov-06		T = 62 ° F	OAL 2.80"			
								
Ave Vel =	2619				 			
Std Dev =	16				 			
ES =	52				 			
High =	2654				 	 		
Low =	2602				 	 		
N =	10				
		[/SIZE]
 
SlamFire1,

Try N550 with 190SMK's in .308. With my 26" barreled FN SPR, I am able to reach 2700fps and stay within pressure specs. While I have heard that RL17 is also good, I have no experience with it. What with the .308's small case capacity, tough to use slow burning powders and get any velocity.

Don
 
I typically use Varget for up to 168 grain, 308 bullets. It is my 308 go to powder. My other choice is IMR4895 as it has a very good range over many bullet weights. I'm not sure I understand why you want to pick the slowest powder for 308 application. My thinking is to pick a powder that performs well, as tested by the bullet (and/or) powder manufacturers. I guess I'm saying I let them pick the best for that range and it is usually expressed by achieving optimal velocity in a certain bullet weight.
 
Robert101 said:
I typically use Varget for up to 168 grain, 308 bullets. It is my 308 go to powder. My other choice is IMR4895 as it has a very good range over many bullet weights. I'm not sure I understand why you want to pick the slowest powder for 308 application. My thinking is to pick a powder that performs well, as tested by the bullet (and/or) powder manufacturers. I guess I'm saying I let them pick the best for that range and it is usually expressed by achieving optimal velocity in a certain bullet weight.
Click to expand...
Back during my "magnum days" I acquired several pounds of the powders I mentioned. My Daughter won an Axis 308 package in a raffle. She also has several gas semi-autos in 30-06 that she inherited. Since powder is so hard to find I'd like to find a use for the slow powders in her .308 and save the gas gun powders for that app.

I'm trying to find a use for the slow burning powders but I don't want to use them in the 30-06 as they could unintentionally migrate into the gas guns.
 
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