Nicky Santoro
Member
A few years back a local shyster got jobbed with a .25 ACP. He's still dead.
What's the smallest pistol you'd trust?
- Thread starter Tom Servo
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Duelist
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One of those little NAA Mini magnums
ScareyH22A
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Yesterday I realized that there's more to it than caliber. We went out and did drills and quickly found out the importance of a good holster and practice drawing, firing, multiple targets, and reloading. Came to realize that I didn't perceive recoil at all like I do at regular range sessions. And front sight on target is the best you can hope for to quickly get off shots on target. I need to practice dry fire drills at home. During all the commotion, I had failure to release the slide release on a reload, I had a mag not seat properly so it didn't chamber a round, one of the guys failed to have one chambered for initial draw, one of the guys almost dropped his gun out of the holster while adjusting the holster position and went to grab it which was obviously dangerous, and one of the guys during clay shooting with shot guns thought he shot all his shells but there was one left in the chamber when we walked off. All kinds of dangerous situations can arise so practice practice practice and keep safe everyone.
My minimum is a .22LR. My basic approach to SD is this: A hit with a .45ACP beats a hit with a .22LR any day, but a hit with a .22LR beats a miss with a .45ACP. The .22LR has a great core density and when used in rapid fire can cause enough shock to incapacitate large animals, let alone humans. Seung-Hui Cho also known as the Virginia Tech Shooter disproved a lot of theory's when he went on his kill streak using a .22 and a 9mm. While I don't agree with what he did, it showed us all a lot about the effectiveness of the round.
I did not read all of this lengthy thread.
After all of the soul searching most of us do choosing a tool to protect our lives in the most extreme circumstances. I have chosen a S&W J Frame Centennial 5 shot revolver loaded with a high performance hardcast wadcutter bullet with fairly deep penetration.
I want a gun I can depend on if the worst nightmare happens. I want a bullet that will do the job regardless of expansion, heavy clothes etc. I want a gun that is as reliable as possible. I want a gun that is difficult to take away from me. I want a gun that is reliable even if I have a weak grip on it. I want a gun I will ALWAYS have with me. I want a gun that has a reasonable real world record of STOPPING an attack as quickly as possible. I want a gun that will withstand the scrutiny of a court if such arises.
In short, I like what has been used by law enforcement for decades. It just works. I am willing to make reasonable accommodations to carry it when such are required. I have shot steel plates at 25yds with the 38spl ammo I carry and several brands of 380acp. IMHO there is no comparison in the "impression" the 38spl makes on the plates.
Just the opinion of someone who has been chasing the best minimum carry weapon for about 45 years.
I also carry my Glock 17 loaded with 124gr Speer GD +P when I can - 38spl is my answer to "better than a sharp stick".
After all of the soul searching most of us do choosing a tool to protect our lives in the most extreme circumstances. I have chosen a S&W J Frame Centennial 5 shot revolver loaded with a high performance hardcast wadcutter bullet with fairly deep penetration.
I want a gun I can depend on if the worst nightmare happens. I want a bullet that will do the job regardless of expansion, heavy clothes etc. I want a gun that is as reliable as possible. I want a gun that is difficult to take away from me. I want a gun that is reliable even if I have a weak grip on it. I want a gun I will ALWAYS have with me. I want a gun that has a reasonable real world record of STOPPING an attack as quickly as possible. I want a gun that will withstand the scrutiny of a court if such arises.
In short, I like what has been used by law enforcement for decades. It just works. I am willing to make reasonable accommodations to carry it when such are required. I have shot steel plates at 25yds with the 38spl ammo I carry and several brands of 380acp. IMHO there is no comparison in the "impression" the 38spl makes on the plates.
Just the opinion of someone who has been chasing the best minimum carry weapon for about 45 years.
I also carry my Glock 17 loaded with 124gr Speer GD +P when I can - 38spl is my answer to "better than a sharp stick".
easyg
Member
Sounds like a good argument in favor of a revolver.
oneounceload
member
It really is very simple - the smallest gun I would trust is the one that goes bang EVERY time I pull the trigger, regardless of caliber or action type
380 lcp
Like everyone else... I love the 38spl in a good S&W 442. I like it in a nice IWB. To me it is ideal. That being said.... this past year...I have rarely carried it. I have my newer ruger lcp 380 in the front right pocket loaded with the bonded remington golden sabers. It works for me and in the pocket holster with the new holster designed to accomate the laser site. There is no L outline...no one could ever know...if they didn't know me already.
Like everyone else... I love the 38spl in a good S&W 442. I like it in a nice IWB. To me it is ideal. That being said.... this past year...I have rarely carried it. I have my newer ruger lcp 380 in the front right pocket loaded with the bonded remington golden sabers. It works for me and in the pocket holster with the new holster designed to accomate the laser site. There is no L outline...no one could ever know...if they didn't know me already.
7Star: That sounds like a fine handgun. Someday I'm going to buy that small semi-auto and Ruger's new small LCR revolver.
I've got all the Smiths, Colts, etc., that I need but I like those Rugers!! I want them!!
As far as what is the smallest caliber I'd trust. I really don't know to tell you guys the truth. I like the .38 Special, 9mm and .45 ACP cartridges though FWIW. Mainly because I've shot those cartridges alot in my life and feel pretty good about hitting what I aim at at close distances.
Edit: I don't have any .380 ACP's but I sure wouldn't want to get shot by one.
I've got all the Smiths, Colts, etc., that I need but I like those Rugers!! I want them!!
As far as what is the smallest caliber I'd trust. I really don't know to tell you guys the truth. I like the .38 Special, 9mm and .45 ACP cartridges though FWIW. Mainly because I've shot those cartridges alot in my life and feel pretty good about hitting what I aim at at close distances.
Edit: I don't have any .380 ACP's but I sure wouldn't want to get shot by one.
BigGuy52
Member
My vote goes to my S&W model 637, .38spl + P snub nose.
Shooting Corbon DPX + P's at 21' I can hit 90% of my rounds in the 5 ring of a silouette target (heart), the remainder are lung shots.
Only improvement I can think of is trying the new ammo from Hornady, Critical Defense.
Shooting Corbon DPX + P's at 21' I can hit 90% of my rounds in the 5 ring of a silouette target (heart), the remainder are lung shots.
Only improvement I can think of is trying the new ammo from Hornady, Critical Defense.
black_powder_Rob
Member
my Taurus 905, it goes just about every where with me.
DHart
Member
...duplicate post in error...
DHart
Member
To the original poster... you can conceal a Kahr PM9 no-problemo with just a t-shirt. While there are .380s which are a bit smaller, the size difference is not enough to make much difference in concealment and the .380 caliber represents a considerable compromise in terminal effectiveness.
For myself, 9mm is the smallest caliber I will choose for defense and the PM9 is a superb delivery system when you are limited to carrying something really small and lightweight. 124 gr. +P Gold Dots or 147 gr. are my choices depending on the season. Heavier weight bullets at slightly slower velocity tend to penetrate better than lightweights at higher velocities. Penetration is the most important function of a defense bullet. If you can get expansion, that's nice to have, but secondary. When choosing bullet weights, consider the season and expected thickness/layers of clothing your bullets will need to penetrate... consider too that some assailants are very heavily built people with many many inches of fat or muscle to be dealt with.
I believe the Kahr PM9 will meet your needs during visits to the sister beautifully. And should any bad stuff go down while you are visiting her, she will most likely be very thankful that you are prepared to resist the bad stuff on her behalf.
For myself, 9mm is the smallest caliber I will choose for defense and the PM9 is a superb delivery system when you are limited to carrying something really small and lightweight. 124 gr. +P Gold Dots or 147 gr. are my choices depending on the season. Heavier weight bullets at slightly slower velocity tend to penetrate better than lightweights at higher velocities. Penetration is the most important function of a defense bullet. If you can get expansion, that's nice to have, but secondary. When choosing bullet weights, consider the season and expected thickness/layers of clothing your bullets will need to penetrate... consider too that some assailants are very heavily built people with many many inches of fat or muscle to be dealt with.
I believe the Kahr PM9 will meet your needs during visits to the sister beautifully. And should any bad stuff go down while you are visiting her, she will most likely be very thankful that you are prepared to resist the bad stuff on her behalf.
ROBBY.1911
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- Mar 8, 2007
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- 225
the one that's empty...
the one that's empty but still has enough heft to smack somebody upside the head. a bond derringer in .45 long colt.
the one that's empty but still has enough heft to smack somebody upside the head. a bond derringer in .45 long colt.
inSight-NEO
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.38 Special (given the "proper" HD load)
Coltman 77
member
9mm is the smallest caliber generally accepted as legitimate cartridge for self defense.
IMHO, a .38 +P could be acceptable too.
Here is a well researched link regarding self defense ammo:http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm
IMHO, a .38 +P could be acceptable too.
Here is a well researched link regarding self defense ammo:http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm
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FMJMIKE
Member
Ruger SP101 .357 magnum!
LightningJoe
Member
The snubnose .38 is a small as you need to go. There are smaller guns, but unless you're wearing a Speedo, they are no more concealable.
41022collector
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- Jun 14, 2009
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- 143
This question for me all depends on what I am doing and where I am going. In this order is what or how I carry.
Everyday in town use - Para Warthog .45 acp with frangible ammo, as a back up on a chain around my neck I have a North American Arms (NAA) .22lr mini rev 1 1/8" barrel with CCI Stingers. Sometimes I will use the folding pistol grip holster. Note: NAA will add a chain holder on the NAA Mini Rev, just have to send it in for the work
Close to home walks - NAA Guardian .32 with glaser safety ammo in a pocket holster, NAA mini rev on a chain around my neck.
In the car (Ohio requires that the firearm must be visable w/o search and in plain sight). I Use the Para Warthog .45 in a special cup holder Hi Rise holster I invented with the clip having a bright orange polymer bumper for plain sight visability.
I carry many different and at different times back up pieces when on duty, The NAA Mini Rev, Hi Standard Derringer in .22lr, Colt's 1962 .32 acp Pen Gun (single shot and last ditch weapon, but truly looks like a pen in my pocket), I even have a Stinger Knife/Pistol combo, looks like a standard folder knife like a camp knife but has a .22lr single shot barrel as one of the blades. I got it to work really well with some tlc and fine tuning, now in a last ditch I would trust it. I will also at times carry a Beretta Mod21 in .22lr.
The smallest automatic I would trust my life with is the Guardian .32 made by NAA. Over the years I have had the chance to shoot many pieces, many I consider junk guns like the Kahr's, Sterlings, Ravens, New Charters, Jennings, AMT's, Bersa's and that whole line of unreliable pieces. The older Charter .44 Bulldog once smithed for a trigger job was a fine carry piece in town.
I am not a true fan of any of the Glocks, but have shot them and they work.
A Colt Pony in .380 is a nice piece, but truly needs smithed to work right for save your life work. It is very rough out of the box.
in the end... if I grabbed just one piece to carry running out the door, it would be the Para Warthog in .45 with two extra clips in a very well made shoulder rig or back pant holster. It is a little beast that will chamber damn near anything and very very very reliable. I have over 2000 rounds through mine and with a slight clean up, still looks and shoots like new. I did make one change in that I added finger extensions on the clips as it has a tendancy to lose your little finger under the mag w/o it. I sent it to Para for a 2000 round check up, they said good to go as is for the next 2000 with no adjustments or spring replacements.
Everyday in town use - Para Warthog .45 acp with frangible ammo, as a back up on a chain around my neck I have a North American Arms (NAA) .22lr mini rev 1 1/8" barrel with CCI Stingers. Sometimes I will use the folding pistol grip holster. Note: NAA will add a chain holder on the NAA Mini Rev, just have to send it in for the work
Close to home walks - NAA Guardian .32 with glaser safety ammo in a pocket holster, NAA mini rev on a chain around my neck.
In the car (Ohio requires that the firearm must be visable w/o search and in plain sight). I Use the Para Warthog .45 in a special cup holder Hi Rise holster I invented with the clip having a bright orange polymer bumper for plain sight visability.
I carry many different and at different times back up pieces when on duty, The NAA Mini Rev, Hi Standard Derringer in .22lr, Colt's 1962 .32 acp Pen Gun (single shot and last ditch weapon, but truly looks like a pen in my pocket), I even have a Stinger Knife/Pistol combo, looks like a standard folder knife like a camp knife but has a .22lr single shot barrel as one of the blades. I got it to work really well with some tlc and fine tuning, now in a last ditch I would trust it. I will also at times carry a Beretta Mod21 in .22lr.
The smallest automatic I would trust my life with is the Guardian .32 made by NAA. Over the years I have had the chance to shoot many pieces, many I consider junk guns like the Kahr's, Sterlings, Ravens, New Charters, Jennings, AMT's, Bersa's and that whole line of unreliable pieces. The older Charter .44 Bulldog once smithed for a trigger job was a fine carry piece in town.
I am not a true fan of any of the Glocks, but have shot them and they work.
A Colt Pony in .380 is a nice piece, but truly needs smithed to work right for save your life work. It is very rough out of the box.
in the end... if I grabbed just one piece to carry running out the door, it would be the Para Warthog in .45 with two extra clips in a very well made shoulder rig or back pant holster. It is a little beast that will chamber damn near anything and very very very reliable. I have over 2000 rounds through mine and with a slight clean up, still looks and shoots like new. I did make one change in that I added finger extensions on the clips as it has a tendancy to lose your little finger under the mag w/o it. I sent it to Para for a 2000 round check up, they said good to go as is for the next 2000 with no adjustments or spring replacements.
m_kirk2001
Member
.22 LR is the smallest that I would trust...
.22 LR is the smallest round that I would trust to protect myself in a self-defense situation. I have a North American Arms .22 MAG/LR mini revolver as a true pocket gun.. You could play a golf game with my revolver in your pocket and not even have it bother you or the people you play with know it was there. While it won't blow a person's guts out it will do more to level a playing field in all but the most extreme cases than a knife, stick, or fist ever will. A gun in .22LR is just a tool, and a small one at that, and while no sane person will argue that it has knockdown power, the track record for lethality in human subjects is obviously statistically significant and cannot be blown off.
.22 LR is the smallest round that I would trust to protect myself in a self-defense situation. I have a North American Arms .22 MAG/LR mini revolver as a true pocket gun.. You could play a golf game with my revolver in your pocket and not even have it bother you or the people you play with know it was there. While it won't blow a person's guts out it will do more to level a playing field in all but the most extreme cases than a knife, stick, or fist ever will. A gun in .22LR is just a tool, and a small one at that, and while no sane person will argue that it has knockdown power, the track record for lethality in human subjects is obviously statistically significant and cannot be blown off.
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