What's with all these Aimpoints on our Troops M16s?

[Blain]

It seems that in all the shots I've seen of our troops in the paper and on TV, I always seem some type of optical device, like an aimpoint, mounted on our soldiers rifles. My question is why? Maybe I'm old fashoined but I'd prefere the iron sights.

However, since I've never used an aimpoint, I feel as if it's my duty to ask what's so special about them? Are they really that much better, if at all, from the standard irons? Which would you rather use if going to war, irons or an aimpoint (or reddot, or whatever it is they're using these days).

 

[dude]

because they work great!

 

[Marko Kloos]

Red dot sights are superior to iron sights for fast target acquisition at close range. I guess they use them because they work well for their intended purpose. I have a red dot on my AR for the same reason.

 

[ajacobs]

It is a hardware solution to a software problem. They don't spend enough time training people to shoot well and replace that with aimpoints.

 

[dude]

what kind of a crock is that??? Hey, if it makes you happy to think that way.

......they train them plenty with iron sights and yet some of them use the red-dot optics. Hell, why not use something that works even better??

 

[Gewehr98]

It's not about being old-fashioned or which you prefer. It's war...

Whatever works to get the enemy body count higher, with fewer casualties on our own side, gets the nod. Aimpoint sights may very well give that advantage.

 

[Soap]

Having your aiming index and the target on the same focal plane is the HUGE advantage of optical sights. Ever try shifting your focus from your front sight to a target that is moving and then back again? It's rough... But the optics make this task (and many other aiming tasks) easier.

I generally hate gadgets but certain ones have proven themselves to the point that they are no longer gadgets and should be consided viable tools.

 

[Airwolf]

The simple answer is that the Aimpoint provides a parallax free sighting solution. You don’t have to worry about sight alignment. As long as the dot is on the target, that’s where your going to hit (compensating for wind and range, of course).

For rapid acquisition or close range situations it’s really amazing to find out just how fast you can put rounds on target (first and follow-up) and keep both eyes open and your situational awareness high.

For longer range the 4MOA dot is a bit too much and the iron sights come back into play.

I’ve got an Aimpoint on my M1A Scout and for man sized targets out to 300 yards it’s worth its weight in gold.

For M-16’s a lot of them are setup to co-witness the irons or view them under the optical sights, so for those longer shots (or optics failure) there’s no penalty for having the high-tech stuff. Best of both worlds.

 

[Blain]

So let me get this straight, I can set up my M14 so that I can switch between looking through the aimpoint scope, or through the irons just by moving my head?

 

[dude]

just by moving your eye

......I find myself favoring the irons under the red 'dot' with the C-More I have foward mounted if I want to hit a small targets (like orange clays)

 

[Blueduck]

I'm a bit behind on the millitary rifle stuff but what they are using (ACOG?) is not really a red dot is it?

 

[El Rojo]

The other huge thing I like I about red-dots is that they are superior in low light situations. For those of you who have looked through a set of iron sights when it is dark, you can't see jack. With the aimpoint, there is a nice red dot showing you right were to aim.

 

[PsyWarrior]

I hate to pop a bubble about the level of training, however, range time is quite limited. Some units only go to the range 1 or 2 times a year. With Socom, we would go more often, but in my opinion, not enough. That is why I would spend a lot of range time on my own. Our troops (non infantry MOS) are taught familiarity and go to qualify annually. This is not enough. Infantry units go more often, but not enough, IMHO. We are winning this war by firepower and motivation. We can put more rounds down range and have better support. Our tanks can out shoot theirs and they are severely weakened by bombing beforehand. If we were in a jungle or pure infantry type situation, the outcome might be a little different.

 

[444]

I have an Aimpoint on one of my ARs that is just like the one the GIs are using. It provides numerous advantages over iron sights. First of all it is much faster to aquire the dot than it is to aquire the sights. Along the same line, you don't have to align the sights, the sight is on the same plane as the target (or so it appears to your eye). Second, you can easily see the dot at night when you can't see iron sights at all. Third you can use the dot sight with night vision equipment if the dot sight is so equipped, which theirs are.
I recently attended the carbine class at Gunsite and had the value of the dot sight proven to me. Within the first couple days, the people shooting iron sights were telling each other that there was no way they could shoot with the speed that the dot sight users could. During the night shoot, they couldn't see their sights at all, while I was hitting the steel every time at 100 yards. Finally, I had no trouble at all hitting pepper poppers at 400 yards. I didn't find the dot to be too large to allow precise enough shooting to hit targets the size of a human torso out to the effective range of the rifle.
I think you would also agree that the sight has proven itself to be rugged and reliable under actual combat conditions. Another frequently mentioned topic is battery life with people saying that they don't want to depend on an electronic device. The battery life is 10,000 hours on the lowest setting and 1000 hours on the highest (brightest) setting. In addition I have the double battery module that has a spare battery mounted on the sight that would take me less than a second to change. Then if I have the sight turned on for several years at a time and those two batteries go dead, I have a spare battery compartment on my GG&G cantilever mount. If all that fails, I can use the iron sights without removing the electronic sight although the electronic sight can be removed in seconds. In addition, you could just use the sight tube as a giant ghost ring which is adequate for short range encounters.
Training is less of an issue because the electronic sight is easier to use and provides faster first shot hits.

 

[Destructo6]

I thought I read that you can replace the diode to get a 2, 4, or 8 MOA dot? 4MOA being the "standard." Yes/NO?

 

[Al Thompson]

Interesting historical note - when the SF guys went into Son Tay, they were using some of the first red dot sights.

Qual wise, when I was in an Infantry battalion, we qualified quarterly. Every six months or so we had a gunnery density where we had live fire exercises up to company level.

One of the mods is now with the 25th at Ft. Lewis and, in conversation, told me that things have changed since I was in. There are more pure bulllseye CoFs and much emphasis on the optical sights used with the M4s.

 

[444]

"So let me get this straight, I can set up my M14 so that I can switch between looking through the aimpoint scope, or through the irons just by moving my head?"

I don't know about the M14, but on the AR15/M16/M4 you can simply look through the optical sight using your iron sights. For me, I don't notice the iron sights at all when using the red dot. I can flip my rear sight down when not in use, but I have found that if I forget to fold the rear sight down, I don't even notice it is there. The dot appears right at the tip of the front sight. In fact, if your iron sights are zeroed, you can do a pretty close zero of the dot sight just by lining up the dot with your irons. Another thing that is nice about the dot sight is the ability to shoot with both eyes open allowing you to be more aware of what is going on around you. I personally have great difficulty shooting iron sights with both eyes open, but with the dot, it is no trouble at all.
By the way, my groups are always tighter with the dot sight than when using the irons.

 

[Braz]

I noticed that too Blain,

Competition shooters led the way, glad to see the military using what works best.

 

[cratz2]

Why anyone would want to knock the government trying to put good equipment into the hands of the folks defending our country.... knock yourself out.

I've been shooting with iron sights for a long long time and the first time I ever tried dot sights (Gilmore and C-More) I shot faster than ever with irons. Up close there's no comparison. There is no alignment, you just see the dot and pull the trigger. Much faster, esp up close.

Do they need them? I guess not. We got through WWII without them.

Would a hundred hours of training for each Fighter offset some of the need for them? Sure! More than likely.

Is there anything wrong with giving the guys fighting for us every possible advantage? It would be treasonous to think otherwise.

 

[ShaiVong]

When one of my buddies went through basic, and was told to sight in his M16, the instructions were to fire 3 shot groups, adjust sights, etc..

Unfortunately, because of lack of ammo, he was told to only fire one shot rather than three in zeroing.. His reply? "What kind of rag-tag army is this?!"

Sometimes range practice is logistically impossable, unfortunately.

 

[rick_reno]

aimpoints - which one is it they're using?

Is it the Comp M2? That one is 4 MOA and mates up nicely with the ITT night vision scope.

 

[Turk]

Al,

You're totally right these raiders purchased the Aimpoints retail. It increased night hits during training by 50% on targets. These Petes were highly trained and most were E-6 and above even with highly trained troops the hits go up. Go to their web site www.sontayraider.com it has some great photo's.

Knowing what I know now I would given almost anything is I could of had one on my 16 back in 68.

I too have a red dot on my SP1 it gives fast target hits with both eyes open. Just yesterday I took out my L1A1 and the AR. The AR was quicker for follow up shots. I'm thinking about putting one on the L1A1. But the AR is still my first choice.

Pray for our troops fighting around the world.

Turk

 

[gun-fucious]

With both eyes open, you scan the terrain while looking at the red dot. It appears to track across the objects in your field of view. You do not have to be looking straight down the sight tube.

If you can see the "Red Dot of Death[TM]", your round can hit the dotted area.

At some point in the future, the land warrior sight will be transmiting to your monocle, the RDD from the weapon on your hip or around a corner.

 

[MarkDido]

So what do these beauty's go for?

 

[hps1]

Ooops! Decided this should be a new thread and couldn't delete.