What's with Kevin Costner?

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Monkeyleg

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I know this is one of those celebrity rants. But I watched Kostner's "Wyatt Earp" on Saturday night. Last night I watched "The Untouchables" for the umpteenth time.

Can't this guy afford a weapons advisor? Every movie I've seen with him in it has people with fingers on the trigger. They're pointing guns at each other, fingers on the trigger. Kostner is pointing a 1911 at his baby girl's head, finger on the trigger.

And which advisor told him to carry a 1911 in Condition Two, with a round in the chamber, hammer down?

Sorry for the rant. If I had Mr. Kostner's phone number, I'd call and give him an earful.
 
I don't own a 1911, is condition 2 dangerous? Will hitting the hammer while it's down set off the round? Or is it basically double action at that point?
 
1911s are single action only with no decocker. That means in order to place the weapon in condition two, you'd have to pull the trigger and hold the hammer. Hell yes it's dangerous.
 
That's a good point you make about pulling the trigger and riding the hammer down. From what I understand, isn't it also dangerous because the 1911 has no firing pin block? Someone correct me if I am wrong.
 
Every movie I've seen with him in it has people with fingers on the trigger. They're pointing guns at each other, fingers on the trigger

At the risk of sounding condescending, isn't he about to shoot someone pretty much everytime he has his hands on a gun in those movies?
 
im sure im not the only one wanting to say this but.. "ITS A MOVIE !"

i dont really think its realistic to expect any sort of movie to be... well realistic enough that they pay 100% attention to gun safty rules. i doupt in any movie you watch people arent heeding the rules at all.
 
Technically there's a half-cock which would catch the hammer if you pulled the trigger then released it, before completely allowing the hammer to fall.\

Cheese, I don't think so. The spring should prevent that. Even still, if there was no spring, aiui inertia would dictate that if were dropped and landed on the hammer, the hammer would have no-where to travel forward and the cartridge would not be able to travel backward, and the firing-pin would attempt to move backward too. If dropped on the muzzle, in theory, the firing-pin would have a bit of inertia, but probably not enough to set off a primer, especially after it had to overcome the spring. Furthermore the whole thing would be moot because if dropped on the muzzle the 1911 couldn't fire anyway, being out of battery. Only took my bolt apart once though, so I'm not totally familiar. http://www.sightm1911.com/1911pix/product/1911cutawaysmaller.jpg
 
Are you even sure training emphasized finger off the trigger back then? A lot of old photographs I've seen have people with their fingers on the triggers.
 
Condition 2, never heard this term before???
See this link.
Condition 0 - A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is off.

Condition 1 - Also known as "cocked and locked," means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.

Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.

Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.

Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.
 
You might want to let it go. You're complaining about one movie from 20 years ago and another from 13.

Here's a tip, movies aren't real and most folks involved don't particularly care about being terribly accurate.
 
Well Dick, I don't like Costner anyway, way too touchy-feely kinda guy...

But how 'bout John Wayne? I watched "the Shootist" the other day, and talk about muzzle sweeps! He tells the kid to get his horse in the barn, using his winchester to point at the kid and the barn :barf:
 
Have you read the quote from Kostner in the current NRA mag stating, in effect that it is 1) OK for Kev to have a gun because his ownership and use is wrapped up in emotion 2) And that MANY new gun law are needed.

He's an actor and I thought much more highly of him, even in 'Waterworld', before he started yammering on about guns in the real world.
 
For you younger guys, keeping the finger off of the trigger is a fairly recent phenomena. Look at any FBI or military or police training film from the 50's and 60's and they always had their finger on the trigger. Keeping your finger off the trigger until you acquire your target and are ready to shoot is an excellent safety device, but it is a very recent practice...probably the last couple of decades.
 
Have you read the quote from Kostner in the current NRA mag stating, in effect that it is 1) OK for Kev to have a gun because his ownership and use is wrapped up in emotion 2) And that MANY new gun law are needed.
I saw that. Seems to me he's just another Fuddite, albeit one who can afford an armed-to-the-teeth security detail...
 
I've "read" that in the "old days", condition 2 was a common way to carry the 1911. I suspect there's more people than you think that probably still carry that way. That's a guess.

It may have been Jeff Cooper that really legitimized condition I, or at least made it popular.
 
What Texagun said.

Before people started packing 1911's C&L, most us carried revolvers, this wasn't the big deal it is today.

I am not arguing the value of the training today, just spoutin' history!!
 
Many if not most of the older pictures you see of some of best double action revolver men show their finger resting on the trigger. Hell, they knew just how much pressure it took to set it off even in single action mode.
 
"Finger off the trigger" is a condition for glocks and like made firearms with no safety, and for guys that wave guns around without real cause, like cops making an arrest of a non threatening person for a non violent crime. Seems like today's cops want to stick a gun to everybody's nose.
I feel perfectly safe with a finger in the trigger on a DA revolver, or a DA semi. If I were in a life threatening situation, (the only reason to point a gun at anyone), you can bet that my finger would be on the trigger, in a position to fire instantly. Just try to take a full proper grip on your gun with finger extended, then move it to the trigger. You can't do it without loosening your grip. Your finger will hit the front of the trigger guard. How much time does it take to fire that first shot properly? Time you likely won't be able to afford. Like I say, if my life is threatened, the bad guy has made the finger on trigger my only choice.
Universal "finger off the trigger" is just another bunch of PC crap, necessary for glocks, However, I would not own a glock or clone for just this reason.
 
NOOO!!!!

Okay, disregarding Kevin "Can't Act" Costner for a moment, and just discussing that last post, my firearms instructor radar went right to BS Condition Red:

"Finger off the trigger" is a condition for glocks and like made firearms with no safety,
Negative. It is for everything. Never count on a mechanical safety. Never ever never ever never. When you're depending on it, it is probably turned off.

and for guys that wave guns around without real cause, like cops making an arrest of a non threatening person for a non violent crime.
And just because I pull a gun doesn't meant that I've gone right to shooting. The last time I pulled a gun on somebody, I was 100% legally justified by (Ability, Opportunity, Immediate threat of serious bodily harm, etc.) but I solved the problem by not shooting him. He saw the gun pointed at him and thought of a better place to be.

Seems like today's cops want to stick a gun to everybody's nose.
Totally irrelevant. I'm a regular guy. But I stuck a gun in somebody's nose. So have about 100 other members I can think of on here who aren't cops.

I feel perfectly safe with a finger in the trigger on a DA revolver, or a DA semi.
I don't care how it makes you feel. You are wrong. And you are being unsafe. That eight pound double action may feel nice and stiff at the range, real secure on a bright sunshiney day, but pump gallons of adrenalin through your system from fear, anger, or pain, and a tiny flinch could pull it. When somebody is trying to kill you, you can pull a piano across a gravel road with your pinky.

If I were in a life threatening situation, (the only reason to point a gun at anyone), you can bet that my finger would be on the trigger, in a position to fire instantly.
No disagreement. ONCE YOU'RE READY TO ENGAGE THE THREAT. Not before. Never before.

Just try to take a full proper grip on your gun with finger extended, then move it to the trigger. You can't do it without loosening your grip.
Then your grip sucks. Get more training.

Your finger will hit the front of the trigger guard.
See above. You're doing it wrong then.

How much time does it take to fire that first shot properly?
Almost none. If you're doing it right. Don't confuse having a gun at the ready (which is neccesary for some situations) and being ready to engage the target.

Time you likely won't be able to afford.
Practice more.

Like I say, if my life is threatened, the bad guy has made the finger on trigger my only choice.
Every situation is different. If I'm home in bed, and I hear a loud noise from my kitchen, and I go to check it out, do I have my finger on the trigger? That way I can shoot my daughter even faster? Or do I have my finger extended on the outside of the trigger guard.

Don't confuse that with, loud noise, now a hulking stranger is coming down the hallway at me, and I put the front sight on his COM and yell for him to stop, you can be damn sure my finger is on the trigger.

Universal "finger off the trigger" is just another bunch of PC crap, necessary for glocks,
Being trained, and having a clue, doesn't make somebody PC. I've trained hundreds of people. Teaching them to keep their stupid finger off of the stupid trigger isn't exactly rocket science.

I guess if keeping people from killing each other under stress is PC, I'm Martha-frickin'-Stewart. But what the hell do I know, I do this for a living. I suppose I could just make crap up and post it on the internet.

Don't make being lazy, or apathetic about safety, some sort of virtue. No matter how you spin it. Disregarding safety doesn't make you smart, it makes you dangerous.

However, I would not own a glock or clone for just this reason.
Your lack of respect for fundamental safety rules, that a six year old can master, doesn't mean that Glock sucks.

There is nothing wrong with a short, consistent, light trigger pull. In fact, they make shooting easier. But if you're going to be sloppy enough to not care about trigger discipline, then you're not going to practice enough to be worth a damn with a gun that has a heavier trigger either.
 
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