What's wrong with the .25?

[gga357]

When it comes to the AR and it's piston cousins there is the .223/5.56 as the standard. Then there are the .243/6mm and .260/6.5mm that really get the BC crowd going. There is the .270/6.8 for a little more punch, maybe. The old and new in .30/7.62 and even the .45s.

So what happen to the .25s? The .257 and 25-06 seem to be pretty popular, what makes it so scarce in the semi-auto platform?

 

[Eric F]

Remington was the first to offer a 25 on any platform it was the mod8 I think it was phased out by the time the mod81 came out but I could be wrong. Basicaly I think the 25 are unpopular due to bullet selection maybe and also lack of kill potential at least in the sporting realm. The 25 for the most part seems more like a varmit round than a large game round. The 22's keep the varmits at bay and for big game it seems like 30 and up is it for them. Save a few 243 lovers. The 25 IMO is a great size for varmits and medium game.

But why not in a auto loader? I guess for no other reason than right now every one seems to want to make a rifle for the round they build, and every one seems more interested in building a possible military round which is not going to be a 25 for one reason or another. Just my .02 though.

 

[-v-]

6.5 is a flat shooting hard hitting long range round that has great BC, a lot of long-range people jumping on that.

The 6.8 is the American equivalent of 7.62x39 with a little flatter trajectory for the folks that want a 7.62x39 but Americanized.

 

[gga357]

But so many have the same comments about the 6mm (.243) and the .25 is right between 6mm and 6.5mm.

 

[Eric F]

Well maybe thats the issue, 243 has a well seated following, and your just not going to get anything else with .007 inches. I would like to see more 25's also I would like to see more 35-40 cal rifle rounds too but the market is just not there.

 

[PotatoJudge]

I think part of it is the relatively light bullets used in the .25. If you're limited to 120 grain and smaller with the.25, why not go to 6.5mm and get 160 grain bullets? I'd like to see a manufacturer come out with some heavy .257 bullets.

 

[Ned Kelly]

I own a .25-06 and I have taken deer with it as well as a lot of other stuff. 120 grain gamekings will take down some pretty big animals.

The 25-06 used to be popular as an elk caliber at one time.

It's advantage is simliar to the same reason the 6.5 swedish mauser is liked. The disadvantage with the 6.5 swede is that it is low velocity and despite its impressive BC it has a rainbow trajectory.

It can penetrate very well.

 

[NCsmitty]

The disadvantage with the 6.5 swede is that it is low velocity and despite its impressive BC it has a rainbow trajectory.

When loaded to it's potential in a modern firearm, the 6.5x55 will equal the 25-06's best load for energy at the muzzle and increases the difference all the way out.
Because of the superior BC, using about 10gr less powder, the 6.5's trajectory with the factory Norma 130gr load catches and equals the 25-06's 120gr 500yd drop, both having a 200yd zero.
That's why they're used in long range competition and still taking game at 110+years old.

But the 1/4 bore is still cool with me.

NCsmitty

 

[Hoxviii]

Well, the 25-06 is a full length cartridge and really didn't "come into it's own" until recently (last 20 years or so). It always had a following, but was almost DOA since it was percieved to not do much more than a .243 and didn't have any less recoil than a .30-06.

Newer powders have really made the 25-06 what it should have been all along, but there is still the idea that it kicks as hard as a 30-06 with less performance and doesn't do that much more than a .243.

As for .257 roberts, three issues.
1) It's not very popular
2) It performs quite closely to the .243
3) .243 uses .308 as a parent cartridge. Uses the same magazines, same length action, same everything except barrel. Cheap for the manufacturers and a very popular cartridge

Someone will just get a .243 or a .308 if they want a fullsize cartridge since they're already much more popular and established.

 

[woof]

The irony here is that what we are calling 25s which are .257, are closer to 6.5mm than the ones we call 6.5s which are .264.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

the 25s have allways been my favorites in a bolt gun. I love the 250 the 257 and the 2506 and have killed lots of game with them. Heres the problem as i see it. Theres nothihng really earthshattering in a 25 cartridge that would work in an ar. the 250 would but its smaller and slighly less powerful then the 243 and even that one hasnt been extreemly popular in an ar as you have to go to a ar10 which is much heavier and if your going to do the wieght you might as well have a 308. I think a 25 based on the 308 would be a good one but its a wildcat now so ammo availablility would stink for a long time if it were comercialized. Personaly i wont even fool with a 6.8 because of it. Brass and ammo are hard to come by and with this ammo shortage about impossible. I think a much better proposition is the 762x39 in an ar. Ammo is abundent and fairly cheap. brass and bullets can still be gotten and it has plenty of power. The 6.8 may be a bit flatter shooting but not enough to make a differnce in the ranges there effective at. One thing for sure is ammo will allways be available and it wont be discontinued and it even is cheaper then .223 to buy. Go try and buy some 6.8 brass and youll pay as much as you do loaded 762x39 and then try to find bulk 6.8 bullets. the 6.8s are fine for hunters and occasional shooters but are way to expensive to feed for a blasting gun. Sorry but they dont show me anything.

 

[gga357]

The irony here is that what we are calling 25s which are .257, are closer to 6.5mm than the ones we call 6.5s which are .264.

.257 inches = 6.5278mm
.264 inches = 6.706mm

 

[Peter M. Eick]

The quarter bores are hamstrung by lack of bullet selection.

It is a cart and the horse problem. With the 243's coming along and then the 7 mm's the quarter bores were left out of the mix. Also consider what is available. 257 Roberts, 25-06 and 257 Weatherby. There is not a lot else unless you add the 25WSM.

As a quarter bore shooter, I really like my 25-06. You just have to accept that it will never be as popular as the 243. To me it is nearly perfect for what I do. I want more power then the "bob" and the 243 is too similar to my 7-08 while the 7-08 does not do well with light bullets. Thus the 25-06 works great for what I need.

No it is not an elk gun, but for what I shoot, it is good enough for everything from Prairie dogs to Deer.

 

[gga357]

So they need a 130gr or so, i see. Is it a rifle twist rate issue?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Going into the 1950s, there were basically three categories of .25s:

1. The small game cartridges like the .25-20. These cartridges faded under the High Speed .22LR, which was cheaper, available in cheaper guns, and totally adequate. A resurgence of the .25 small game cartridge in the face of the .22 WMR and .17 HMR is not likely.

2. The .25-35, .25 Remington, and similar "deer cartridges." These particular cartridges have always been considered a bit under powered. Old timers generally considered the .30-30 a better choice, and so it is.

3. The true high powers, like the .250-3000, the .257 Roberts and the .25-06. The .243 Winchester killed the first two of these -- so much so that Savage had to "stretch" the Model 99 receiver to accomodate the .243. The .257 Roberts is a long receiver cartridge, and suffers in that respect. The .25-06 hangs on, but won't do anything the .270 and .284 won't do.