Is There Really Room For so Many 6.5mm's?

[ArchAngelCD]

It seems recently there has been an explosion of 6mm, 6.5mm and even 6.8mm cartridges, some long but mostly short and fat. I'm just wondering, is there really room for all of them? I would think eventually a few will become very popular but most will fade away or stick around with a cult-like following. (the the .41 Magnum in handguns) Lets talk about the 6.5mm cartridges here.

We have the 6.5mm Creedmoor (2008) which seems to be growing in popularity and it fits well in an AR-10 platform. IMO it's a good round and it reminds me of the 7mm-08.

Then there's the .260 Remington. (6.5mm-08) (1997) It produce good velocity with fairly heavy bullets and I think it's a good hunting round.

How about the 6.5X47 Lapua? (2005) This is one of the new bread of long range competition cartridges and from what I've read, it's a good one.

There's also the 6.5mm Grendel (2003) This one fits in an AR-15 platform and again, is gaining in popularity. It's meant to add more punch over the .223/5.56mm. This one reminds me of the 7.62X39 AK round.

The 6.5mm BR, as you can see by the name it's a Benchrest round. This one and even more the 6mmBR and 6mm Dasher are very popular in the Benchrest game. All 3 are extremely accurate!

6.5mm-06 (A-Square) (1997) Is one of the long 6.5mm cartridges which is a necked down from a 30-06. Like the 6.5mm-284 the case is very large so it holds more powder and delivers high velocities. I'm a little surprised anyone bothered to make this one since the 25-06 is almost identical. The difference between the .264" and .257" bullet is minimal.

Will they all survive considering we already have very good century old 6.5mm rounds like the 6.5X55 Swede, the 6.5mm Carcano and the 6.5X50mm Japanese which are popular and for the most part do the same job? There's also the 6.5-284 which isn't over 100 years old but it is pushing 50 years old and is also popular. (and a few 6.5mm Magnum's too)

SO, what do you all think? Likes, dislikes, good points, bad points, which will make it and which won't? Also, if I forgot any of the new 6.5mm cartridges feel free to add them to the discussion...

 

[Onewolf]

I have two .260 rems, a 260 AI, and I have a 6.5 Grendel on order. I think the 6.5 has absolutely the best selection of bullets for a wide variety of long range shooting styles.

 

[dvdcrr]

6.5 carcano...do you think shilen gets many custom orders for that one? It would be interesting to see these ranked by velocity not old military velocity but real modern velocity if you were to use the cartridge in a modern action.

 

[ATLDave]

There's also the 6.5mm Grendel (2003) This one fits in an AR-15 platform and again, is gaining in popularity. It's meant to add more punch over the .223/5.56mm. This one reminds me of the 7.62X39 AK round.

I don't think the part I've italicized is correct. The primary attraction of the 6.5 Grendel is that it excels at long-range shooting out of an AR-15 (or other short-action) platform. It uses the very slippery, high BC bullets that allow it to maintain velocity for a long way and postpone the accuracy-wrecking transition to subsonic velocity.

The 6.8 SPC is the "more punch" AR-15 round, if that's what you're looking for. And if you're trying to get something to approximate 7.62x39, the .300 Blackout/Whisper is where you go.

JMHO, of course.

 

[303tom]

I would say yes, we now have an AR in .300 Win. Mag. so I guess there is room for just about any thing.............

http://www.impactguns.com/nemo-omen-300-win-match-rifle-omen-match.aspx

 

[JustinJ]

I think the 6.5 MPC would be a far better option than the 6.8, 6.5 Grendel or .300 blackout as a 5.56 replacement. Sam AR mags and bolt, like the .300 blackout, but longer range and lethality than the 5.56.

 

[henschman]

6.5CM, .260, and 6.5x47 are similar enough that I wouldn't be surprised if one ends up eclipsing the others when it comes to brass selection, available factory ammo, and factory rifles chambered for it, and the others fade off into obscurity. No clear winner has yet emerged, though. Currently there is more brass selection for the .260, but the CM actually has an effective long range load that is available on factory shelves.

6.5G has a bit of a niche since it fits in an AR-15 action, so it isn't directly competing with the others and is probably here to stay.

6.5x55 is so common with all the Swede Mausers and is so popular in Europe and to some degree here in the States as a hunting round that I don't think it will go anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Sam1911]

I once copied down every rifle cartridge that you could buy brass for from Midway.

Those between 6.5 and 6.8/.270 are as follows:

25-20 WCF
25-20 Single Shot
256 Winchester Magnum
25-21 Stevens
25-25 Stevens
25-36 Marlin
25-35 WCF
25 Remington
250 Savage
257 Roberts
25-06 Remington
25 Gibbs
25 Winchester Super Short Magnum
257 Weatherby Magnum
6.53 Scramjet
257 STW
6.5x53 Rimmed
6.5 Grendel
264 SALZ (264 Salisbury)
6.5mm Japanese
6.5mm Carcano
6.5x54mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer
6.5 Creedmoor
6.5x47mm Lapua
260 Remington
6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser
6.5mm-257 Roberts
6.5x58mm Rimmed Sauer
256 Newton
6.5mm-284 Winchester (Norma)
6.71 Phantom
6.5mm-06 A-Square
6.5mm Remington Magnum
264 Hawk
6.5mm Gibbs
264 Winchester Magnum
6.5mm STW
6.5mm-300 Weatherby Magnum
6.8mm Remington SPC
270 Winchester
270 Winchester Short Magnum
270 Gibbs
270 Ackley Magnum
270-338 Winchester Magnum
270 Weatherby Magnum
270 STW

To tell the truth, I do think there are at least two completely redundant cartridges in there ... but now I can't remember which they were!

 

[viking499]

Why not just go with the original and say 6.5x55. Its the cream of the crop anyway......

 

[Slamfire]

I have bud's who shoot the 6.5 Grendel in across the course highpower competition. One year at Camp Perry I pulled targets with the man who came up with the cartridge and AR platform. The cartridge was designed to work within the short action of the AR15 for XTC competition. Ballistically it is better than the 223 past 300 yards and the cartridge is not a barrel burner.

National matches have been won with the 260 Remington, Michelle Gallagher set a record at Camp Perry with the cartridge. While this is an accurate cartridge, from people who use it, barrel life is short. The primary advantage is that it fits through a short action bolt rifle.

I have heard good things about the 6.5 Creedmore, don't know anyone using it, but if it is an improvment over the 6.5-08, I hope it survives.

Well heeled long range competitors use the 6.5-284. Very accurate but barrel life is even shorter.

I have had discussions with a bud who believes that we would have been better off adopting the 6.5 Swede cartridge instead of the 30-06. Revisionist history is always fun, but the cartridge is flatter shooting, and less recoiling. I contend it is more accurate than a 30-06, but the accuracy difference would not be enough to be noticed in a service rifle or a hunting rifle.

I don't know many competitors using the 6.5 X 55 Swede, maybe because it requires a long action rifle, but the Swede is a wonderfully accurate round and pushes the same weight of bullet at lower pressures than any of the preceding cartridges, so barrel life ought to be better. It is the round I would use in a hunting rifle, in fact, I have several

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

An interesting discussion point, that's for sure. I'm a huge fan of the original also, the 6.5 X 55mm Swedish Mauser.

There are several of the old 6.5 military cartridges that are completely obsolete and therefore, for all practical purposes, are completely dead except for the collecters. Some of the newer ones could be said to be on life support also, the 6.5 Remington magnum comes to mind. And, speaking of Remington, the .260 is so completely redundant to the Swede it isn't funny. It's only reason for existance seems to be to provide Carmichael with an income source & Remington with another albatross to hang around their neck. Can ya say: 8mm magnum, the 710, 5mm magnum, and the .17 Remington? Yeah, it can be put in a short action, so what? First of all, prove you can outshoot the Swede in a standard length action, then tell me you need a short action.

Not being involved in the AR platform thing, what's the difference/reason for both the 6.5 Grendel & the Creedmore? Or is this just someone wanting to avoid paying Alexander Arms their royalties, as in the .300 Whisper/Blackout affair?

900F

 

[taliv]

i've settled on 260AI, 260rem and 6Creedmoor

I don't like doing anything in a long action that i can do in a short action, so no 6.5swede for me.

compare 6.5 SAUM's which can be run at relatively low pressure and still get 3150 fps from a 140g bullet, to 6.5 swede at 2950 fps.

 

[Temp430]

I like my 260 Rem. and I think there's plenty of room for more 6.5 mm rifles. It's the 7 mms you have to worry about.

 

[HOOfan_1]

Is there really room for so many .30 calibers????

 

[Arizona_Mike]

The 260 Rem is a great option in the AR10 platform. The 6.5x55 is also a great option loaded to modern pressures or factory pressures. You will always find ammo.

Yes there is room for so many because 6.5mm is a very flexible bullet diameter, esp with modern bullets.

Mike

 

[chaser_2332]

i've settled on 260AI, 260rem and 6Creedmoor

I don't like doing anything in a long action that i can do in a short action, so no 6.5swede for me.

compare 6.5 SAUM's which can be run at relatively low pressure and still get 3150 fps from a 140g bullet, to 6.5 swede at 2950 fps.

^^ this

Bartlein just sent a 6.5 gain twist that's about to be a 6.5saum, my new deer destroyer.

 

[desidog]

Why not just go with the original and say 6.5x55.

The 6.5x52 Carcano got started in 1889, two years before the Swedish offering....(and it was considered obsolete by the start of WW2 as well.)

 

[Queen_of_Thunder]

It seems recently there has been an explosion of 6mm, 6.5mm and even 6.8mm cartridges, some long but mostly short and fat. I'm just wondering, is there really room for all of them? I would think eventually a few will become very popular but most will fade away or stick around with a cult-like following. (the the .41 Magnum in handguns) Lets talk about the 6.5mm cartridges here.

We have the 6.5mm Creedmoor (2008) which seems to be growing in popularity and it fits well in an AR-10 platform. IMO it's a good round and it reminds me of the 7mm-08.

Then there's the .260 Remington. (6.5mm-08) (1997) It produce good velocity with fairly heavy bullets and I think it's a good hunting round.

How about the 6.5X47 Lapua? (2005) This is one of the new bread of long range competition cartridges and from what I've read, it's a good one.

There's also the 6.5mm Grendel (2003) This one fits in an AR-15 platform and again, is gaining in popularity. It's meant to add more punch over the .223/5.56mm. This one reminds me of the 7.62X39 AK round.

The 6.5mm BR, as you can see by the name it's a Benchrest round. This one and even more the 6mmBR and 6mm Dasher are very popular in the Benchrest game. All 3 are extremely accurate!

6.5mm-06 (A-Square) (1997) Is one of the long 6.5mm cartridges which is a necked down from a 30-06. Like the 6.5mm-284 the case is very large so it holds more powder and delivers high velocities. I'm a little surprised anyone bothered to make this one since the 25-06 is almost identical. The difference between the .264" and .257" bullet is minimal.

Will they all survive considering we already have very good century old 6.5mm rounds like the 6.5X55 Swede, the 6.5mm Carcano and the 6.5X50mm Japanese which are popular and for the most part do the same job? There's also the 6.5-284 which isn't over 100 years old but it is pushing 50 years old and is also popular. (and a few 6.5mm Magnum's too)

SO, what do you all think? Likes, dislikes, good points, bad points, which will make it and which won't? Also, if I forgot any of the new 6.5mm cartridges feel free to add them to the discussion...

Does it really matter. If it floats one's boat so be it.

 

[Onewolf]

Fella's;

snip....

Not being involved in the AR platform thing, what's the difference/reason for both the 6.5 Grendel & the Creedmore? Or is this just someone wanting to avoid paying Alexander Arms their royalties, as in the .300 Whisper/Blackout affair?

900F

6.5 Creedmoor is not an AR-15 'compatible' round. It's much too long for an AR-15 magazine. It compares most closely with the .260 Rem. When I was rifle shopping last year for my first 'long range' rifle it was a toss up between the .260 Rem and the 6.5 CM, but since I couldn't find any 6.5CM versions of the rifle I wanted I ended up going .260 Rem and I have been very happy.

 

[taliv]

6.5 Creedmoor is not an AR-15 'compatible' round. It's much too long for an AR-15 magazine. It compares most closely with the .260 Rem. When I was rifle shopping last year for my first 'long range' rifle it was a toss up between the .260 Rem and the 6.5 CM, but since I couldn't find any 6.5CM versions of the rifle I wanted I ended up going .260 Rem and I have been very happy.

it's generally considered 'compatible' for gas guns because the shoulder angle (30* instead of 20*) and the length of the case. (specifically being slightly shorter with slightly longer neck so that you can seat bullets closer to the lands and be magazine fed at same time

 

[Onewolf]

it's generally considered 'compatible' for gas guns because the shoulder angle (30* instead of 20*) and the length of the case. (specifically being slightly shorter with slightly longer neck so that you can seat bullets closer to the lands and be magazine fed at same time

Really? I didn't think a 6.5CM round could feed in an AR-15 lower. I thought they required the AR-10 class lower since the standard COL for 6.5 CM is 2.82" and a 5.56 round is 2.25".

 

[taliv]

onewolf, you're right. i was careful to be generic about 'gas guns' in my post and not specifically say AR15.

 

[nastynatesfish]

I built a 260 rem. it's a fun rifle to shoot but I think the 7mm triumphs. Here's my 260. It's 17.2 lbs empty

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I built a 260 rem. it's a fun rifle to shoot but I think the 7mm triumphs. Here's my 260. It's 17.2 lbs empty

That's a good looking rifle there "nastynatesfish", how well does it shoot?

 

[tahunua001]

well 6.5-06 will probably fade into history as will the creedmore as 6.5 is virtually the same size and has had it's foot in the door for a few decades now.

however 6.5 jap and carcano are far from popular. 6.5 carcano has non standard bullet diameter(.268 instead of .264) so you're either stuck loading undersized bullets which suffer poor accuracy as a result or you have to buy custom bullets(expensive). the rifles themselves are also held in generally low regard and no other rifles(that I'm aware of) were ever chambered for it. 6.5 jap is more standardized and arisakas are generally much stronger and better suited to sporterizing so there is more utility there but with no japanese surplus after the war there was not the initial surge of cheap guns and cheap ammo to feed them with like there was with mausers after the war so the arisaka never gained the foot hold that other military rifles did in the US and so ammo companies have never had much incentive to produce it. I like 6.5 jap a lot but it is far from popular and at this point could already be considered faded away.

260 is good in AR10s and other parailitary designs based on the 7.62 round since it's based on the 308 case. grendel is best suited to AR15s. all the rest are hard to foresee a future for.