Wheelchair bound Brit arrested for self defense

[Mr. Bombastic]

=='er... "mr. bombastic" he was not arrested for assault'==

er..."agricola" the thread title says 'Wheelchair bound Brit arrested for self defense'.

And not ''Wheelchair bound Brit arrested for assault'.

You did read the title, didn't you?

 

[clange]

ii) CS Spray is.

Unless you're a cop?

 

[Mr. Bombastic]

Yeah. Cops can carry spray, big sticks, folding knives with locks, sometimes guns, and in future Tasers too.

Us subjects don't need that kind of stuff to protect ourselves with, only cops encounter violent criminals.

 

[Kharn]

Agricola:
You said:

he was not arrested for assault

The article says:

Officers then arrested both men.

You mince words, Mr. Ashworth was still arrested, and the police are investigating his "illegal use and possession of CS spray", which is what I would assume they arrested him for.

Oh, and I'm still waiting for you to list the acceptable items a wheelchair bound person can use in self defense without being dragged downtown.

Kharn

 

[Safety First]

Perhaps the CS spray is illegal,but the robber is lucky it was'nt a SIG 245...and here we go again...the victim is the bad guy...so unfriggen real

 

[StLGlocker]

Come now, Kharn. He shouldn't have defended himself at all. Everyone knows that a crippled man lying in the bushes with his throat slashed is morally superior to one who uses a non-lethal tool in defense of his own life. After all, the dead guy obeyed the law. [/sarcasm]

 

[jsalcedo]

Old ladies are arrested in the UK for carrying Knitting needles in their sewing bag.

I can provide a cite if one is needed.

 

[jmbg29]

From George Orwell’s 1984

Definition of Blackwhite: "Applied to an opponent, it means the habit of impudently claiming that black is white, in contradiction of the plain facts. Applied to a Party member, it means a loyal willingness to say the black is white when Party discipline demands this. But it means also the ability to believe that black is white, and more, to know that black is white, and to forget that one has ever believed the contrary."

"You believe that reality is something objective, external, existing in its own right…But I tell you, Winston, that reality is not external. Reality exists in the human mind, and nowhere else. Not in the individual mind, which can make mistakes, and in any case soon perishes; only in the mind of the Party, which is collective and immortal. Whatever the Party holds to be truth is truth. It is impossible to see reality except by looking through the eyes of the Party. That is the fact that you have got to relearn, Winston. It needs an act of self-destruction, an effort of the will. You must humble yourself before you can become sane."

"The command of the old despotisms was 'Thou shalt not.' The command of the totalitarians was 'Thou shalt.' Our command is 'Thou art.'"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Doubleplusgood Ag!

 

[mussi]

OK.

If CS and OC are illegal in the UK, if I ever go there, I'll probably get a gun.

Just be sure there are no witnesses.

On the other hand, I have no intention to go the UK soon.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Agricola, your dedication to your country is admirable, but it is causing you to say things that are doing irreparable damage to your reputation. The man was arrested for owning CS spray. He was arrested for simply owning a non-lethal, non-wounding form of self-defense. He was arrested mere moments after proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that he had only purchased it out of dire necessity and had used it, quite possibly, to save his life.

And you insist that if it doesn't say "For the Unlawful Act of Defending Oneself" on the chit, he was not arrested for self defense. Silly American anti-British propaganda.

Not long ago you told me that it was to my "discredit" that I continued to insist that government prosecutors are employees of the government and are speaking the government's point of view when they try a case. Although I don't agree, I appreciated the fact that you phrased it that way and I accept that you were probably trying to help me. Now I will return the favor. Your insistence that this man was not arrested for defending himself is a discredit to you and the reputation you built here early on.

Just out of curiosity, what form of self-defense would have been acceptable for this poor bloke? CS and OC are right out. Firearms are out, of course. Knife? Baton?

Is it perhaps that Britons have the right to self-defense, but not to prepare for self-defense? If he'd grabbed a brick or a bottle off the street, he'd have been OK?

 

[Pilgrim]

I think I have a solution to the problem in the United Kingdom. All potential victims should go around naked. The crooks will know they have nothing worth stealing. The police will know the victims aren't armed. And finally, anyone with clothes on is subject to arrest because they are probably concealing weapons.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

The handicapped dude was NOT arrested for self defense. Just how hard is that to understand? Even worse is that nowhere in the article does it say the guy was arrested for self defense. Such sensationalized and inflammatory thread titles seem really cool, but do a disservice as they are inaccurate. The handicapped dude was arrested for possession and use of contraband, in this case, the CS spray. Had he performed in a legal manner with legal materials, he would not have been arrested.

 

[jmbg29]

The handicapped dude was arrested for possession and use of contraband, in this case, the CS spray.

Yep. He should have used good old-fashioned chairkata, or offered to go mano a mano with the thug. Hey! There is an idea! Why not have all muggings/assaults/murders/etc. settled with a best three out of five thumb-wrestling championship? Nah! Too violent. Wait! How about paper, scissors, rock? Nah! That would offend turd world primitives that don't have paper or scissors! Whew! [Barbie voice]Justice is hard.[/Barbie voice]

Had he performed in a legal manner with legal materials, he would not have been arrested.

Yep. Even the Brits haven't gone so loony as to arrest dead people. Have they?

 

[Monkeyleg]

Don Gwinn: "The man was arrested for owning CS spray. He was arrested for simply owning a non-lethal, non-wounding form of self-defense."

Sorry, but the man was arrested for possession of a Cajun condiment.

What's next, ketchup?

 

[CZ-75]

The handicapped dude was NOT arrested for self defense. Just how hard is that to understand?

Someone else made that point before you. Thanks for sharing.

Truth is he WAS arrested for self-defense, it just wasn't phrased that way. Considering that there are no effective LEGAL means of self-defense avaiable to him, the gentleman in the wheelchair employed an effective, yet ILLEGAL means. I'm doubting that a jury will convict on assault since the victim was responding to force. Hence, the prosecution (govt. to the rest of us) will charge him with what they have left, possession of contraband, as sanction for his temerity to resist attack.

 

[rrader]

Hammer4nc:

Edit: Reread your post, never mind.

 

[jsalcedo]

There are no legal items that can be used for self defense.

Anything that could ever possibly be used as a weapon is considered an illegal weapon. Butter knife, rolled up magazine
or stale french bread. If the cop thinks you are going to use it for defense then you are subject to arrest.

Its a zero tolerance policy.

Maybe the British government figures if people are empowered to fight street crime they might start believing they can fight government criminals as well..

 

[CZ-75]

I hope this was made as a sarcastic comment and not meant seriously.

Of course it was.

 

[Baba Louie]

Note to Baba Louie,

Should I ever travel to merry olde England, be sure to take my walking cane (old football injury doncha know, yeah, that's the ticket) or umbrella at least.

Probably won't ever happen, but I could certainly justify its existance and presence should I need to.

And should I ever need it, I'm sure I'd be in really big trouble explaining to a judge my mis-use of a perfectly fine gentleman's implement in the act of "self-defense"... "I don't know exactly what happened your honor, its a blur. The best I can recollect, the guy said he was going to Kill the Queen and then he attacked my umbrella/cane repeatedly with his head, groin and face. I kept shouting STOP! POLICE! LEAVE ME ALONE PLEASE! and yet he kept on attacking my brelly. Once I finally untangled myself from him, I left the scene and called a Bobby at once. What would you have done Sir? I don't EVEN know how my fountain pen poked a hole in him. And is the Queen OK?" ( a Baba can dream can't he?)

Adios

 

[Don Gwinn]

As funny as that was (and it was) CS is actually tear gas, not pepper. Pepper spray would be OC, Oleo-Capsicum.

Double Naught Spy. . . you're kidding, right? "had he performed legally?" How precisely could he have "performed legally" without getting killed or at the very least robbed?
"With legal materials?" Agricola has not been willing or able to tell us what those might be, but we know that firearms, tasers, stun guns, OC and CS spray, knives and swords are not on the "approved" list. So to what legal materials are you referring? I am assuming here that you would not have made that statement if you didn't know of some legal weapon he should have used.

 

[Nightfall]

Note: If gun control pushers win and continue to get their way, this will likely be the end result for the USA. Just a thought.

I'm simply at a loss for words to describe my feelings of pity for England. I hope you all can turn your country around one day.

 

[Byron Quick]

Ok, agricola, let us accept your terms for the sake of debate. He wasn't arrested for self defense which is legal in Great Britain. He was arrested for the dastardly crime of possessing pepper spray.

Now this man is reportedly crippled to the point of barely being able to walk across a street. He certainly cannot run away successfully.

Please outline a reasonable plan of successful self defense under the laws of Great Britain taking his disabilities into effect.

Sir, I will posit a basic premise: If you cannot legally own the tools necessary for self defense then the fiction that self defense is legal is, in fact, moot. Unless you happen to be a martial arts master.

Or are the martial arts illegal in Great Britain, too? Not yet? You fellows are sure thinking about doing so though, now aren't you?

It's semantics. Playing with words. Trying to hoodwink others. Dishonest. Acting like a lawyer. Or a tyrant trying to hide behind concepts such as "we're too civilized for that" or "it's for the children."

 

[Don Gwinn]

Martial arts are not illegal in Britain. However, in my experience, British martial artists are easily horrified by any suggestion that their arts would be used in a "street fight" or that weapons more modern than swords could be combined with their arts. They seem to believe that such talk would equate them with the drunken street brawlers and hooligans who are the scourge of British streets (their words, not mine.)

I've been told by many British martial artists (and not a few Americans, to be fair) that an unarmed man actually has a great advantage over an armed man. Guns, in particular, are useless and are signs of cowardice and criminal intent.

 

[Byron Quick]

Yeah, Don, I've been told such by American martial artists, too.

I've got training about half way to black belt in arts that do use weapons. Several times I've taken a dowel and inserted it into a round piece of foam about four inches long and saturated it with ink. Told the mighty black belts, this is my knife, gents, come and disarm me. After examining the wealth of ink tracks on all parts of their anatomy...some learned better. Then to make sure it stuck...guys, I ain't expert with a knife. Think if you try to face someone who is.

Think those who think that guns are useless need to go hand to hand to a paintball match.

 

[KPersimmon]

<<<when the wheelchair user gets done for assault, then the thread title is correct. until then, it isnt.>>>


Someone's obviously not paying attention because the thread title is correct, according to the news story.

He then climbed out of his wheelchair and limped across the road as the man screamed in pain. A passing police patrol spotted him in distress and stopped at the scene. Officers then arrested both men.

So, if pepper spray is illegal in the UK, then the residents should be glad that this wheelchair-bound man was arrested and also faces prosecution for his alleged crime.

Since I'm not a UK resident, thank heavens, then I reserve my right to be appalled, shocked, and not a little bit angered by this story.