When are you required to ID yourself to cops?

[Phantom Warrior]

The title says most of it. Under what circumstances are you required to present ID to a cop or even identify yourself? I just read the Minnesota carry law and I'm required by MN law to have my permit and ID when carry, as well as present them when lawfully demanded by a peace officer. However, what if I'm just walking down the street or sitting outside my local McDonalds or playing frisbee in the high school parking lot at night (everything else in town closes after 10...) and a cop pulls up and go "Hey you, what's your name? Let me see some ID." Assume I'm not carrying and not knowingly breaking any laws. I'm not planning to jerk the police around, but I dislike being jerked around by authority and I'm curious what my rights are. Thank you in advance for your replies...

 

[Carlos]

I understand your feelings, however, not cooperating with a police officer will cause you nothing but grief.

So, if a cop asks you for something, do it. I know it sounds intrusive but you got nothing to hide, right??

 

[Feanaro]

So, if a cop asks you for something, do it.

So when they ask you to open your trunk when they have no legal right to look in it, you should?

 

[Renegade]

Here in NC, I have to carry picture ID and CCH permit when I carry concealed. When I'm approached by a LEO I must, by law inform the LEO that I have a permit and that I'm carring or not. It doesn't mean I have to tell every LEO that I see, just the ones that actually approach me. This even includes the LEOs that go "hey you, what's your name? Lets see some ID."

Later,

Dave

 

[Publicola]

If you're not carrying or your CCW permit doesn't require it, then you don't ever have to show your I.D. to the cop. Well, as long as you're not driving. A condition of all drivers licenses is that it must be shown to any cop that asks for it if you're operating a car at the time.

But a pedestrian? Nope.

Will you catch grief for it? Probably - but odds are (& this varies state to state) the cop has no legal authority to hassle you because you won't show him an I.D. or talk to him. Again, just cause they don't have the legal authority to do something doesn't mean they won't bully, bluff & possibly arrest you.

Carlos - everybody has something to hide. That's called privacy. But just cause you want to hide something doesn't mean it's illegal does it?

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Carlos - everybody has something to hide. That's called privacy. But just cause you want to hide something doesn't mean it's illegal does it?

Thanks Publicola, that's putting it very well. Just to clarify in case anyone else feels like chiming in, I'm specifically NOT refering to when you are carrying and required by law to display ID. Just in general.

 

[Bill St. Clair]

Unless you called him, and think hard before doing so, don't ever volunteer any information to any cop. In most states, you are required to show driver's license, registration, and sometimes proof of insurance if stopped while driving. Many CCW permits require that you volunteer that you're carrying or that you tell if asked. Under other circumstances, tell him your name and the city where you live. Explain that though he might be a nice guy, that there are too many bad cops and too many bad laws, so you will not answer any more questions. Then proceed to periodically ask if you are being detained. If not, ask if you are free to go. If yes, walk or drive away.

It's too bad that it's come to this in the land of the once free, but that's the way it is. You must assume that every cop you meet is fishing for a reason to arrest you. Make him work for it. Don't give him anything.

Even if you're arrested, don't tell them anything. It will never help you, no matter what they say.

 

[whm1974]

Even if you're arrested, don't tell them anything. It will never help you, no matter what they say.

That is very true. and always demand a lawyer.

Bill Meadows

 

[Hedger]

Interesting Question

The issue of whether you have to ID yourself to LEOs (other than at the times noted above, driving, etc.) while you are being detained under "reasonable suspicion" is up before the US Supreme Court in Hiibel v. Nevada. Apparently Nevada has a law saying that you must. Of course, this doesn't apply to situations where you are asked to ID yourself for the proverbial "no reason."

Looks like maybe the end of this year or early next before they answer the question.

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/03-5554.htm

Defendants and government's briefs are here:

http://www.abanet.org/publiced/preview/briefs/march04.html#hiibel

They make interesting reading and give a good background on the law of when you do and don't have to ID yourself under most circumstances.

 

[Steve in PA]

If its a mere encounter......such as you ditty-bopping down the street and the LEO approaches you, with nothing else and asks for ID......then no, you don't have to say anything and can keep walking.

However, if the LEO states he has a reason to speak with you, meaning he has a reasonable suspicion, supported by articulable facts that criminal activity "may be afoot"......then you must provide ID.

Also not that reasonable suspicion is less than probable cause.

Lets go back to the ditty-bopping. It may be a drug neighborhood or a bad area of town, where no sane person would be walking, etc.

So yes, if you are a pedestrian, under the right circumstances you can be required to provide ID.

 

[Hedger]

Mebbe, mebbe not

However, if the LEO states he has a reason to speak with you, meaning he has a reasonable suspicion, supported by articulable facts that criminal activity "may be afoot"......then you must provide ID.

Will be interesting to see what the Supremes say about that Steve. It looks like the case linked above deals with the requirement for giving ID during a Terry stop. I reviewed the briefs, I think Nevada has the uphill climb on the argument, IMHO. Nevada's main rationale as ID being "non-testimonial" is an eye bender...

 

[ksnecktieman]

If a cop is responding to a call,,, suspicious subject, domestic, robbery, whatever, and someone is walking away from the scene, if there are other officers already on scene, he may very well stop and ask for id. If you do not have id, or if you refuse to give it, he may assume you are involved and take you in, until he is assured you are not involved. If you provide a drivers license he will have enough info that he can find you later, if needed, and will not feel as much need to detain you. It may cost you an hour because you have on the wrong color shirt. I always carry my dl anyway, so I think my response is to show it to him.

 

[Steve in PA]

The US Supreme Court has already spoken on the issue. The info I posted came from United States v Sokolow, Supreme Court of the United States. 490 U.S. 1, 109 S. Ct. 1581 (1989).

 

[Hedger]

First Impression

I read Sokolow... it really didn't deal with the "must give ID" issue at all. It was a pure Terry issue case. The Petitioner's brief in Hiibel gives a run down on prior Supreme cases that raised the issue but was apparently not decided... (decided on other grounds). Sokolow isn't even cited as authority in their briefs. Looks like a first impression case.

 

[Steve in PA]

Its about an investigatory stop or detention.......which means the LEO will be ID'ing you, since you are not free to just walk away.

 

[Carlos]

When they ask you to open your trunk when they have no legal right to look in it, you should?

The original context of this thread said nothing about my giving anybody any go ahead to search my car.

Simply put, my response was dealing with a cop who happened to ask somebody for ID. Nothing more.

No way in #&$(# am I going to give Carte Blanche to any cop asking to further invade my privacy.

You want to know who I am? Fine. But there better be PC to go further.

 

[Hedger]

Hmmm

Well, I think the thread issue is whether or not you have to tell the LEO who you are, assuming they don't already know, under any circumstance. That issue was not addressed in at all in Sokolow. It appears it will be in Hiibel.

Nevada says the ID question is a "reasonable intrusion" under the Fourth Amendment and doesn't violate the Fifth (non-testimonial in nature) or Miranda (non-custodial interrogation).

Interesting stuff.

 

[c_yeager]

What possible harm could come from providing your ID to a cop who asks for it?

 

[rms/pa]

ummm mr yeager,i have the same name as a guy who like to punch out officers,

he is about my size and the same race too. he usually has a few warrants out on him.

just introducing myself has had some odd reactons from my local officers.

rms/pa

 

[c_yeager]

So you match the description of some guy who likes to tangle with cops. And REFUSING to show your ID will make that situation go better for you?

 

[Jack T.]

What possible harm could come from providing your ID to a cop who asks for it?

That't not the point. The point is, why would an officer NEED to know who I am? Do you normally stop people going down the hall and ask who they are?

 

[tcsd1236]

Jack T, if we are asking you for ID, its because we are on a call or have some reason to believe that there is a need to identify individuals at a particular location. You may not be aware of the reason at that moment, but we don't just go down the street asking to see everyones ID for no reason.When I am on a call, I have to indicate everyone I spoke to on the subject of the call. That means name, address, DOB, etc.If you think we like getting all that info just because we like to write longer reports, you are mistaken.

 

[jsalcedo]

I've been pulled aside after a concert and held for over an hour while they checked my ID for warrants in every surrounding county.

I had not commited any crime, was not intoxicated. However, I was taught to obey police officers. My only offense was being a long hair at a concert.

They were genuinely shocked when they couldn't find one thing on me.

Made me empty my pockets, searched my wallet etc... At the time I thought they were within their rights to harass me.

It probably would have been worse if I had refused to comply with their orders. Small suburbian police don't tolerate anyone who challenges their authority.

 

[braindead0]

Criminals have a tendancy to impersonate LEO's. In some states your SSN can appear on DL's... So, criminal impersonates LEO wanders around and collects all the information necessary to get credit cards in your name...etc..

This could be a very lucrative crime. I doubt it's happened yet, but you never know. If a LEO doesn't have any business asking for your ID, then why provide it?

 

[Zach S]

Despite how I look (picture a 6ft tall 155 lb Hell's Angel), I rarely get asked for ID by a LEO. Normally when I'd hear "Can I see your ID" I'd reply with "Mind if I ask why?" Those were few and far between though. Most of the time I felt the officer had reason enough to ask. I was in a few wrong places at the wrong times. The last time I had to show ID to an officer was about three years ago in downtown Asheville, he turned down the street I was on right after I put a coathanger in the door of my Dakota...

Doesnt bother me to show ID. Unless its a rent-a-cop for the Asheville Mall asking for it