When Did Auto Loaders Become Prevalent?

[tipoc]

If there is one guy to blame it would be Jeff Cooper.

But it was bigger than one guy. During the same period the Europeans were dropping the smaller police sidearms in .32 and .380 and going to high cap 9mms.

Archie is right that here or there the confluence of factors can be argued but it was a combination of them that led to the transition. Response to the drug trade was one factor but the change effected even small out of the way police depts. The change towards the "militarization" of law enforcement began in the 80s and hasn't stopped. In his book "No Second Place Winners" Bill Jordan, writing in the early 70s opts as how the revolver is the best choice for law enforcement. The semi best for the military he thought. 15 years later fewer thought this.

tipoc

 

[LeonCarr]

When I went through the academy in 1994, we were the first class in which everybody shot an auto. All previous classes had at least one cadet shooting a wheelgun.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Defensory]

Massad Ayoob's 1987 book "The Semi-Automatic Pistol in Police Service and Self-Defense", played a significant role in convincing many law enforcement agencies around the country to make the switch to semi-autos.

Ayoob explains and documents the decisive tactical superiority of the semi-automatic handgun in law enforcement and self-defense use.

Must reading for anybody interested in handgun self-defense, whether LEO or civilian.

http://www.amazon.com/Semi-Automati...633502?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215034561&sr=1-11

 

[Defensory]

Posted by tipoc:
In his book "No Second Place Winners" Bill Jordan, writing in the early 70s opts as how the revolver is the best choice for law enforcement. The semi best for the military he thought. 15 years later fewer thought this.

Jordan's "No Second Place Winner" was published in 1965. The beginning of the end for revolvers in law enforcement use, occurred in 1967 when the Illinois State Police became the first major LEA to issue a semi-automatic handgun as a primary duty weapon (PDW).

Within about the next quarter of a century, virtually every major LEA in the country had adopted semi-autos as their PDW. Not to mention a substantial number of mid-size and small LEA's.

So Jordan's opinion that revolvers are the ideal for LEA's, has been relegated to second place by the vast majority of LEA's throughout the country. As Bill himself often preached, there are NO second place winners.

 

[2ndamd]

I think you are taking Bill's title out of context.

Bill was NOT concerned with winning a popularity contest. Only winning a gun fight is what he is referencing. Just because some LEO "thinks" he is better served with an auto over a revo, does NOT make it true. It does NOT make it false either. It is who wins the gun fight not who sells the most guns. Bill comes from a time when men did not need alot of money to have honor, courage and gunfighting skills. Heck Bill Jordan didn't even have a laser on his gun GASP! Perish the thought. Howd' he shoot straight?

Bill outlined a great many advantages of the revo over the auto. And Bill was a real man that didn't take alot of crap from other people. Including Charlie Askins (sp?).

Remember their dual on auto vs revo? Bill kindly invited Charlie out behind the wood shed to settle-up.

They do not make 'em like Bill much anymore. A few of them still out their but, not many. Certainly "NO MAS" is NOT a Bill Jordan. Even Mas would say that.

Reading Bill's articles from the past and he would use Euphonisms to describe his activities on the boarder. Like: "I had to get his attention." That means I slapped him upside his head.
You know what I mean? Back when LEO could practice discretion.

 

[golden]

COMBINATION of THINGS

I remember as a teenager in the late 1970's, police departments went crazy over the S&W 59 with its 14 shot capacity. The model 59 was so badly designed that it almost killed the shift to autoloaders by itself. Many, many of these guns jammed, even when shooting ball ammo.

Still, many of the cops liked the large capacity magazines and when BERETTA started winning the military trials (over and over), departments took notice.

With BERETTA, GLOCK, SIG and the second generation SMITH & WESSON autos to choose from, revolvers were doomed.

Revolvers had problems besides limited capacity. They could jam or seize up if not taken care of properly. My agency had problems with 11 revolvers in my academy class of 48. They ranged from a torqued on sideplate (mine) to 2 guns seizing up on qualification line.
We also had revolvers (S&W model 13's) explode when using the 125 jhp load that was standard with the BORDER PATROL. It left a real bad taste with many officers.
They were also slow to reload for the average cop. Some NYPD officers would carry two guns and pull out the second instead of reloading.

At the same time, the 1911 based pistol competitions came on strong. Revolvers did not even compete in this league.

Also, many more street criminals began using guns and they went to autoloaders. So the cops demanded autoloaders to deal with them.

It was just a matter of timing.

Jim

 

[Defensory]

"When the Illinois State Police adopted the Smith & Wesson Model 39 semiautomatic in 1967, they were ahead of their time. They and other cops with revolvers of the period were hitting bad guys with about 25 percent of the bullets they fired in action. With the adoption of the 9mm auto, hit ratio skyrocketed to somewhere around 65 percent."

Massad Ayoob
The Gun Digest Book of Combat Handgunnery, 6th Edition

 

[welldoya]

I had always heard it was because of the FBI shootout in Miami. The good guys ran out of ammo and were undergunned. It was after that when most police depts. started looking at semi-autos.

 

[Defensory]

Posted by welldoya:
I had always heard it was because of the FBI shootout in Miami. The good guys ran out of ammo and were undergunned. It was after that when most police depts. started looking at semi-autos.

The FBI shootout was the "coup de grace", but as golden mentioned, it was a combination of things.