Hangingrock
Member
Apparently the Marine Corps never got the word. Because from 1964 thru 1968 no hearing protection was issued as an example for artillery units. No hearing protection was issued for annual rifle and pistol qualifications either.
When did ear and eye protection become common place?
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Apparently the Marine Corps never got the word. Because from 1964 thru 1968 no hearing protection was issued as an example for artillery units. No hearing protection was issued for annual rifle and pistol qualifications either.
xcgates
Member
A family friend that was in the navy during the Vietnam war didn't have any form of ear protection.
hemiram
Member
I have a friend who is in his early 60's and didn't wear any kind of hearing protection When he started shooting when he was a kid, and didn't start wearing anything until after he came back from Vietnam. Between the jet engines on the planes he worked near, and the shooting, he's very deaf at this point. He said he never really even heard of wearing anything while shooting until about 1969 or so.
For an almost 54 year old guy, I have remarkably good hearing, but it used to be amazingly good. I could hear watches ticking away in a quiet room, and I could hear many remote controls when buttons were pressed (I won quite a bit of money betting with people I could do it) from several feet away. Now, I have to have it right next to me to hear them, but I still can hear the whine that many of them make.
I somehow managed to keep my hearing pretty well intact, even though I shot a lot of big fireworks off when I was a kid, along with thousands of .22 blanks. Most of my damage came from a couple things, nitro Top Fuel and Funny Cars, and my old dog, who was basically all lungs, yapping his head off next to my left ear while driving. He barked or screeched at all kinds of stuff he saw, and it was very unpleasant. I started going to see the nitro cars in 1973, and ear protection was considered "wussy" or "girly" until around 1980 or so, when suddenly, even the crews for the cars started wearing some kind of protection. One of my friends went with me to a single race in 1977, and he swears his hearing hasn't been right since that day. I managed to make it through over 100 races with about 3000 passes made, without any serious damage.
Watch the camera guy jump when the throttle is whacked:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR7aF4hY9rU
The ear doctor said I have the best hearing of any male patient of his over 45, and my hearing must have been incredible for me to be able to say it's not good at all compared to what it was when I was 18 or so.
For an almost 54 year old guy, I have remarkably good hearing, but it used to be amazingly good. I could hear watches ticking away in a quiet room, and I could hear many remote controls when buttons were pressed (I won quite a bit of money betting with people I could do it) from several feet away. Now, I have to have it right next to me to hear them, but I still can hear the whine that many of them make.
I somehow managed to keep my hearing pretty well intact, even though I shot a lot of big fireworks off when I was a kid, along with thousands of .22 blanks. Most of my damage came from a couple things, nitro Top Fuel and Funny Cars, and my old dog, who was basically all lungs, yapping his head off next to my left ear while driving. He barked or screeched at all kinds of stuff he saw, and it was very unpleasant. I started going to see the nitro cars in 1973, and ear protection was considered "wussy" or "girly" until around 1980 or so, when suddenly, even the crews for the cars started wearing some kind of protection. One of my friends went with me to a single race in 1977, and he swears his hearing hasn't been right since that day. I managed to make it through over 100 races with about 3000 passes made, without any serious damage.
Watch the camera guy jump when the throttle is whacked:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR7aF4hY9rU
The ear doctor said I have the best hearing of any male patient of his over 45, and my hearing must have been incredible for me to be able to say it's not good at all compared to what it was when I was 18 or so.
FIVETWOSEVEN
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Earlier today I was setting off some .22LR with the bullet removed with a hammer without and hearing protection. after the 4th my hearing had a slight ringing.
bhk
Member
'If you ever shot a gun with no hearing protection.... you will never want to do that again.'
Nothing macho about not wearing ear or eye protection, but your warning above does not necessariy express the experiences of many of us. I am 60 and began shooting in NRA sactioned small-bore shooting when I was 10 or 11. No one wore hearing protection. When I began other forms of target shooting no one wore it. I do remember one of my friend's dad stuffing cotton in his ears. We shot lots of clay birds, rabbits, etc. with shotguns and no protection. It didn't bother us. No one recommended protection and we didn't know any better. It certainly wasn't painful - it was all we knew. As I moved into my 20s we all learned more about hearing damage, ear plugs, and muffs. They were then being advertised everywhere and recommended by everyone. We weren't stupid and began wearing them also. Definitely the smart thing to do. No doubt about it. I always wear hearing protection now except when hunting, and I do a LOT of that (just ask my wife).
Am I deaf or hard of hearing after all this abuse? Not in the least. I hear great (been tested). I can hear a deer in the woods and identify bird calls when other, younger folks can't hear a thing. Am I lucky? Yes. Many others of my age have suffered hearing damage, some significant. Others, like me, have been relatively fine. My hunting buddy who often doesn't wear muffs even when plinking as even better hearing than me.
My point is, I guess, that firing a shot without protection is not sudden death for most shooters. Doesn't even bother many of us. I do, though, strongly recommend wearing hearing protection. It is the smart thing to do because you do not know how gunshots will effect you, and chances are they WILL cause damage. Who knows, my hearing might even be better if we knew more in our early years. As it is, right now I have to ask most folks to turn the damn TV volume down cause most of my friends and family keep it too loud for my tastes.
Nothing macho about not wearing ear or eye protection, but your warning above does not necessariy express the experiences of many of us. I am 60 and began shooting in NRA sactioned small-bore shooting when I was 10 or 11. No one wore hearing protection. When I began other forms of target shooting no one wore it. I do remember one of my friend's dad stuffing cotton in his ears. We shot lots of clay birds, rabbits, etc. with shotguns and no protection. It didn't bother us. No one recommended protection and we didn't know any better. It certainly wasn't painful - it was all we knew. As I moved into my 20s we all learned more about hearing damage, ear plugs, and muffs. They were then being advertised everywhere and recommended by everyone. We weren't stupid and began wearing them also. Definitely the smart thing to do. No doubt about it. I always wear hearing protection now except when hunting, and I do a LOT of that (just ask my wife).
Am I deaf or hard of hearing after all this abuse? Not in the least. I hear great (been tested). I can hear a deer in the woods and identify bird calls when other, younger folks can't hear a thing. Am I lucky? Yes. Many others of my age have suffered hearing damage, some significant. Others, like me, have been relatively fine. My hunting buddy who often doesn't wear muffs even when plinking as even better hearing than me.
My point is, I guess, that firing a shot without protection is not sudden death for most shooters. Doesn't even bother many of us. I do, though, strongly recommend wearing hearing protection. It is the smart thing to do because you do not know how gunshots will effect you, and chances are they WILL cause damage. Who knows, my hearing might even be better if we knew more in our early years. As it is, right now I have to ask most folks to turn the damn TV volume down cause most of my friends and family keep it too loud for my tastes.
Some folks, like bhk, lucked out, but those are exceptions, and most of us who began shooting years ago have a significant hearing loss due to shooting without or with inadequate hearing protection.
Up to about WWII, hearing and eye protection both were considered unnecessary and few shooters used either. Some stuffed cotton in their ears or used fired .38 cases or .38 bullets for ear plugs. AFAIK, the first hearing protection made specifically for shooting was the Lee-Sonic Ear Valve, an ear plug with a valve that was supposed to be closed by the pressure wave of a shot, but remain open to hear other sounds, like range commands. They did work, and I have a pair around somewhere.
Later, around 1965, muffs got better and replaced the uncomfortable ear plugs. But they kept out all sound, so the shooter could not hear commands or warnings. Today, there are electronic muffs that do what the Lee-Sonic claimed to do, but they are expensive.
Jim
Up to about WWII, hearing and eye protection both were considered unnecessary and few shooters used either. Some stuffed cotton in their ears or used fired .38 cases or .38 bullets for ear plugs. AFAIK, the first hearing protection made specifically for shooting was the Lee-Sonic Ear Valve, an ear plug with a valve that was supposed to be closed by the pressure wave of a shot, but remain open to hear other sounds, like range commands. They did work, and I have a pair around somewhere.
Later, around 1965, muffs got better and replaced the uncomfortable ear plugs. But they kept out all sound, so the shooter could not hear commands or warnings. Today, there are electronic muffs that do what the Lee-Sonic claimed to do, but they are expensive.
Jim
My dad worked in an industrial envirement his whole life. He had to make his own earplugs in the late 50s because the companies would not provide it. When he retired in the late 80s he was deaf in one ear and could barely hear in the other. He always stressed safety equipment to me. I wear mine all the time at work and at the range. My hearing is excellent. I just don't listen well.
.38 Special
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My wife and I run a busy audiology/hearing aid practice. We have a number of retired cops as patients. They mostly tell me that hearing protection didn't become standard on their practice ranges until the early 80s. Many of them would stuff .38 Special cartridges into their ears. I actually tested this in the soundbooth. It doesn't work, for anyone who might consider it.
FWIW, I meet a lot of people who claim to not have any hearing loss. They are usually dragged in by spouses complaining that "He thinks he's fine, but we're all sick of yelling at him." They usually turn out to have significant losses -- even the ones who claim to hear "great", and/or tell me that they've had their hearing tested and it was "fine". (I've even had patients claim that their last test was normal, and then received that test from the clinic that did it, complete with notations about how this person needs hearing aids but is in denial about their loss.)
That's not to say that it is impossible to be exposed to a lifetime of gunfire and not suffer any damage -- but personal experience has taught me that most people who believe that of themselves are incorrect.
<edit> It's also entirely possible to damage one's ears in youth or middle age and not see the results until past retirement age. This single fact is responsible for 80% of my livelihood, in my estimation.
FWIW, I meet a lot of people who claim to not have any hearing loss. They are usually dragged in by spouses complaining that "He thinks he's fine, but we're all sick of yelling at him." They usually turn out to have significant losses -- even the ones who claim to hear "great", and/or tell me that they've had their hearing tested and it was "fine". (I've even had patients claim that their last test was normal, and then received that test from the clinic that did it, complete with notations about how this person needs hearing aids but is in denial about their loss.)
That's not to say that it is impossible to be exposed to a lifetime of gunfire and not suffer any damage -- but personal experience has taught me that most people who believe that of themselves are incorrect.
<edit> It's also entirely possible to damage one's ears in youth or middle age and not see the results until past retirement age. This single fact is responsible for 80% of my livelihood, in my estimation.
A Mans self image used to be one of being unencumbered with 'safety' things or things which assumed he as himself must be lacking or stupid.
There was nothing macho or bravado or cavalier about it, it was simply how a man behaved and carried himself, and tacilty expected others to do likewise, as a matter of self respect.
If you got hurt, you got hurt, shrugged it off, nobody made a big deal about it.
Things have changed, how one imagines 'reason' has changed, how people see themselves ( as victims, or worried about being a victim, mostly ) has changed from what it had been.
The whole culture changed.
New legacies are created and lived, new ways of self...new ways of experiencing Life, the World, and how one fit in to either.
There was nothing macho or bravado or cavalier about it, it was simply how a man behaved and carried himself, and tacilty expected others to do likewise, as a matter of self respect.
If you got hurt, you got hurt, shrugged it off, nobody made a big deal about it.
Things have changed, how one imagines 'reason' has changed, how people see themselves ( as victims, or worried about being a victim, mostly ) has changed from what it had been.
The whole culture changed.
New legacies are created and lived, new ways of self...new ways of experiencing Life, the World, and how one fit in to either.
.38 Special
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Most of the hard-bitten old men I see in my practice don't see themselves as "victims". They just regret they didn't protect their hearing when they were young, and now they're sorry that they can't hear the people and things they love.
leadcounsel
member
I also wonder if it has something to do with life expectancy - in each war since WWI a Soldier's life expectancy has seemingly increased. Same with saving, retirement, etc. I imagine the other parts of the equation are science, technology, and availabilty of ear and eye pro.
FirearmsEnthusiast
Member
Always wear eye protection when you can too. I've said this before on another thread, but I was once standing behind a shooter who was nailing targets with a .357 mag revolver when I got smacked in the head and recieved a cut. It wasn't serious of course, but if that thing hit my eye I bet it would've got me in a fair bit of trouble that's for sure.
xcgates
Member
Of course I know plenty of elderly folks who don't know when/where they lost their hearing, so as usual, nothing is safe.
And yes, I wear earmuffs when shooting (easy on/off) and ear plugs when on the bike. And after learning the hard way, when grinding it is good to guard both against the noise (especially under a car in a small garage) and against the flying embers. Ooops. Now when under a car, I wear goggles, and if it involves noise, ear protection, and if it involves heat/jagged edges, sleeves and gloves.
Nothing macho about sustaining unnecessary injury, much better climbing out from under the car and being able to fire up the engine, and hear the purring of a fixed exhaust only needing to shower and change clothes.
::EDIT for LeadCounsel:: That is due to allover better medical care, prompted by all sorts of advancements. It also means (from what I've read, so take this for what you paid for it) that we are seeing more handicapped vets. Injuries people would have died from not too long ago, are easier to treat with everything from better surgery, faster evac, better first care on the frontlines.
And yes, I wear earmuffs when shooting (easy on/off) and ear plugs when on the bike. And after learning the hard way, when grinding it is good to guard both against the noise (especially under a car in a small garage) and against the flying embers. Ooops. Now when under a car, I wear goggles, and if it involves noise, ear protection, and if it involves heat/jagged edges, sleeves and gloves.
Nothing macho about sustaining unnecessary injury, much better climbing out from under the car and being able to fire up the engine, and hear the purring of a fixed exhaust only needing to shower and change clothes.
::EDIT for LeadCounsel:: That is due to allover better medical care, prompted by all sorts of advancements. It also means (from what I've read, so take this for what you paid for it) that we are seeing more handicapped vets. Injuries people would have died from not too long ago, are easier to treat with everything from better surgery, faster evac, better first care on the frontlines.
huntsman
Member
yep I hear fine I just wish the ringing would change pitch every once in awhile.
.38 Special
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It's interesting that the folks who deal poorly with their tinnitus are usually the ones who have constantly changing pitch and/or volume. They can never get used to it and learn to ignore it -- which, sadly, is one of the few treatment modalities available at the moment.
FWIW, it does seem that the variable pitch/volume deal is more common during the "ongoing damage" phase of hearing loss. So you can probably accomplish your goal by popping off a few .357 rounds in close quarters without hearing protection.
Just bear in mind that good hearing aids are $3000-$7000 per pair these days. Let me know if you want my business card.
FWIW, it does seem that the variable pitch/volume deal is more common during the "ongoing damage" phase of hearing loss. So you can probably accomplish your goal by popping off a few .357 rounds in close quarters without hearing protection.
Just bear in mind that good hearing aids are $3000-$7000 per pair these days. Let me know if you want my business card.
orionengnr
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I went to basic training in 1976, and we used no heraing protection for either pistols or rifles.
I've been riding and racing motorcycles since around 1968, and working on/flying airplanes since 1977 or so, and I'm not sure how, but my hearing is still pretty damn good.
These days I "double up" at the range.
I've been riding and racing motorcycles since around 1968, and working on/flying airplanes since 1977 or so, and I'm not sure how, but my hearing is still pretty damn good.
These days I "double up" at the range.
marv
Member
Q: When did eye and ear protection become popular?
A: Sometime after I lost the hearing in my right ear.
A: Sometime after I lost the hearing in my right ear.
Rabbitcreekok
Member
I was a Dallas Police Officer in the mid to late 1970's and we did not wear hearing or eye protection at the range. Never thought about it at the time. I now have tinnitus and am just used to the ringing. I really don't know if it came from shooting then or from somewhere else.
22-rimfire
Member
In my life, hearing protection focus started in the early 1980's. All it took was a couple shots with my Python at the time to convince me that I needed something. It actually hurt.
Eye protection is another matter..... the optical characteristics of the cheap semi-disposable safety glasses are not good and they distort your image. I use my perscription glasses and that is all the protection I seek. I have yet to find good fit over safety glasses to use with perscription glasses which I often wear on the job. As with most things, it is a compromise between utility and protection.
Eye protection is another matter..... the optical characteristics of the cheap semi-disposable safety glasses are not good and they distort your image. I use my perscription glasses and that is all the protection I seek. I have yet to find good fit over safety glasses to use with perscription glasses which I often wear on the job. As with most things, it is a compromise between utility and protection.
huntsman
Member
nope keep the card , with that money I could buy a couple of guns or maybe a case of .380 ammo.
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
I remember shooting .22lr on the outdoor BSA range w/out eyes or ears in the late 70's.
The experience was hardly pain inducing. The shooting range staff had muffs, with the explanation that they were sitting there in the noise all day long, whereas our class was only an hour.
Personally, I have a modest hearing loss, to which the shooting of my youth probably contributed little, most likely it was a long string of loud concerts, living with my head in the speakers.
The point was driven home a few years ago when I heard some noise in the bedroom. When I opened the door, it was my wife, singing at the top of her lungs:
"Where, oh where has my husband gone?
Where, oh where can he be?
He'd be here,
If I could get his good ear,
deaf as a stone is he!"
Apparently, she'd been trying to call me from the basement for some time.
The experience was hardly pain inducing. The shooting range staff had muffs, with the explanation that they were sitting there in the noise all day long, whereas our class was only an hour.
Personally, I have a modest hearing loss, to which the shooting of my youth probably contributed little, most likely it was a long string of loud concerts, living with my head in the speakers.
The point was driven home a few years ago when I heard some noise in the bedroom. When I opened the door, it was my wife, singing at the top of her lungs:
"Where, oh where has my husband gone?
Where, oh where can he be?
He'd be here,
If I could get his good ear,
deaf as a stone is he!"
Apparently, she'd been trying to call me from the basement for some time.
Although blatantly obvious as a statement it's important to keep in mind that the surprisingly early availability of ear and eye protection doesn't equate to widespread adoption of it's use until nearly a hundred years later.
Today, reasonably good quality ear and eye protection are available at a remarkably low price. Advanced ear protection in the form of electronic muffs is becoming inexpensive enough to be part of many shooters' range gear and the use of plugs and muffs is becoming common practice for those folks.
Today, reasonably good quality ear and eye protection are available at a remarkably low price. Advanced ear protection in the form of electronic muffs is becoming inexpensive enough to be part of many shooters' range gear and the use of plugs and muffs is becoming common practice for those folks.
rscalzo
Member
I still have my first pair of David Clarks from 1965. Some of the old timers stuffed the 38 cases in their ears. Eye protection was not was widespead though until later years.
minutemen1776
Member
When I was growing up and learning to shoot, ear protection was something that just didn't come up. My dad, granddad, and uncle (from whom I mostly learned to shoot, at least to begin with) were old-school and had probably never learned to use ear protection themselves. The fact that we mostly shot rimfires and shotguns back then (as opposed to centerfire rifles and pistols) meant that shooting without protection wasn't really painful, so getting protection was never an imperative.
For me, two things changed as I got older. First, I gradually lost about 80% of my hearing in one ear because of severe ear infections I had as a kid which badly damaged my eardrum and inner ear. Knowing that one ear was practically deaf made me want to protect my other ear in whatever ways I could. Meanwhile, I also moved in shooting centerfires, and I learned that just a shot or two from the bigger guns can immediately induce pain and ringing in the ears. For those reasons, I started using good hearing protection in my late teens and early twenties, not just for shooting but also for things like mowing the lawn. I've since had my "bad" ear repaired somewhat. Despite my efforts, my ear doc says he can tell I've shot guns because I have high-range hearing loss, even in my "good" ear.
For me, two things changed as I got older. First, I gradually lost about 80% of my hearing in one ear because of severe ear infections I had as a kid which badly damaged my eardrum and inner ear. Knowing that one ear was practically deaf made me want to protect my other ear in whatever ways I could. Meanwhile, I also moved in shooting centerfires, and I learned that just a shot or two from the bigger guns can immediately induce pain and ringing in the ears. For those reasons, I started using good hearing protection in my late teens and early twenties, not just for shooting but also for things like mowing the lawn. I've since had my "bad" ear repaired somewhat. Despite my efforts, my ear doc says he can tell I've shot guns because I have high-range hearing loss, even in my "good" ear.
Rokman
Member
I don't know, but wish that I started protecting my ears earlier. Growing up, I never used hearing protection when shooting .22's or shotguns and now I wouldn't think about not protecting either my ears or eyes. No one around me used hearing protection when shooting unless it was a handgun or centerfile rifle and then not very often. I teach my children and other new shooters to practice shooting protection always.
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