The Custom Target II I have is a great gun. The CDP, a gun costing twice as much, not so much. Two trips back to Kimber and it still would rarely get through a mag without a failure. Traded it away with full disclosure. I'll never get rid of the Target, but I'll never buy another Kimber handgun.
When did Kimber become a bad word?
- Thread starter Elkins45
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JohnBT
Member
Kimber became a bad word when they started selling more 1911s than all the other makers combined. Sure they've had some problems, like their failed extractor experiment, but they sold over 75,000 1911s in 2009. A shop like Wilson made 2014 that year. Brown made 1434.
www.atf.gov/statistics/download/afmer/2009-firearms-manufacturers-export-report.pdf
"...at 1,000 - 2,000 rounds these pistols began to fail significantly, many failed long before that, with a sizable percentage spending a lot more money on them to to get em to work at all."
I guess my 1999 model is 25,000+ overdue.
"I always thought "Kimber" was a great name for a 16 year old cheerleader."
Old man Warne grew up in Kimba, South Australia. It's pronounced Kimber there. Now you can stop fantasizing about young girls in short skirts.
"Kimba is a rural service town on the Eyre Highway at the top of Eyre Peninsula in South Australia."
www.atf.gov/statistics/download/afmer/2009-firearms-manufacturers-export-report.pdf
"...at 1,000 - 2,000 rounds these pistols began to fail significantly, many failed long before that, with a sizable percentage spending a lot more money on them to to get em to work at all."
I guess my 1999 model is 25,000+ overdue.
"I always thought "Kimber" was a great name for a 16 year old cheerleader."
Old man Warne grew up in Kimba, South Australia. It's pronounced Kimber there. Now you can stop fantasizing about young girls in short skirts.
"Kimba is a rural service town on the Eyre Highway at the top of Eyre Peninsula in South Australia."
LiveLife
Member
Hilton Yam often writes about LE duty weapons that must perform with minimal failure rate. IMO, he provides straight forward objective review on most of his write ups. This is part of what he had to say about a batch of Kimber Warrior models (he didn't just review "one" pistol but a large batch - picture below shows a part of the larger batch) - http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2010/07/kimber-warrior.html
Zerodefect
member
Deos anyone have a linky for sales figures for 2010 or 2010 for all handguns in the US. Coming up blank with Google.
Last time I saw them, Kimber makes a ton of pistols. As many as alot of the mass produced robot built Glock types.
Some 1911 companies don't advertise because they allready sell every pistol they make and don't want to expand thier operation and risk lowering thier quality. Kimber advertises everywhere with some really pretty adds. And Kimbers are spit out by machines with allmost no hand fitting at all, they're as mass produced as a Glock. Something that, aparently, isn't a good idea with an old school designed pistol from the early 1900's.
Last time I saw them, Kimber makes a ton of pistols. As many as alot of the mass produced robot built Glock types.
Some 1911 companies don't advertise because they allready sell every pistol they make and don't want to expand thier operation and risk lowering thier quality. Kimber advertises everywhere with some really pretty adds. And Kimbers are spit out by machines with allmost no hand fitting at all, they're as mass produced as a Glock. Something that, aparently, isn't a good idea with an old school designed pistol from the early 1900's.
JohnBT
Member
Of course Mr. Yam had recommended that model previously.
"Over on 10-8Forums.com, we'd had some threads which discussed issues with the Kimber Warrior, which I had once recommended as a viable service 1911. "
Things change.
Like Tim Lau said in one of their earlier discussions, "It is difficult to find a duty ready 1911 out of the box for $1200 or less"
"Over on 10-8Forums.com, we'd had some threads which discussed issues with the Kimber Warrior, which I had once recommended as a viable service 1911. "
Things change.
Like Tim Lau said in one of their earlier discussions, "It is difficult to find a duty ready 1911 out of the box for $1200 or less"
Kimber makes a decent enough 1911. I'm just not fond of the Swartz firing pin block system.
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JohnBT
Member
Here's the 2010 atf report.
Kimber made 80,051 .45s. Wilson made 1952 and Brown made 1876. Colt was at 27,195.
www.atf.gov/statistics/download/afmer/2010-final-firearms-manufacturing-export-report.pdf
www.atf.gov/statistics/
Kimber made 80,051 .45s. Wilson made 1952 and Brown made 1876. Colt was at 27,195.
www.atf.gov/statistics/download/afmer/2010-final-firearms-manufacturing-export-report.pdf
www.atf.gov/statistics/
DammitBoy
Member
those production numbers make the odds of buying a lemon go up pretty dramatically...
xXxplosive
Member
Kimber = Colt Knock-Off.................IMO.
It's Not A .45 Unless It Has A Horse On It.......
It's Not A .45 Unless It Has A Horse On It.......
I agree questions arose right around the time Kimber felt their external extractor design was a good idea. It sucked. IMO the external extractor can be an improvement to the 1911 (e.g. S&W E-Series), but Kimber's effort was terrible.
I think Kimber peaked with the Series I. I own a SI and it's better fit and finished than many SII I've owned/seen. Also, IMO, the FPB safety was a step back for the 1911 purists like me.
Regardless, most SII are good guns. But, people like to complain more than praise.
I think Kimber peaked with the Series I. I own a SI and it's better fit and finished than many SII I've owned/seen. Also, IMO, the FPB safety was a step back for the 1911 purists like me.
Regardless, most SII are good guns. But, people like to complain more than praise.
TCBPATRIOT
Member
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- 178
My wife's name is Kimber and the only problem I have with her is that sometimes she drives too slow.
A singular experience, meaningless to anyone but yourself, the law of averages and Kimber 1911's, are quite familiar, one with the other. Think "Bushmaster" when comparing Kimber 1911's to other examples. There's nothing in the world wrong with being a recreational shooter, 99% plus are just that, many are highly knowledgeable firearms enthusiasts, nonetheless it's the serious shooters that quickly make, or break a pistols/rifles reputation.
The jury came in a long time ago on Kimber quality.
That was certainly Colt's attitude, when they were the only game in town, when the first thing you had to do to carry a Colt 1911 as a duty gun was take it to a gunsmith.
Colt:
1. You wants sights you can see...take it to a gunsmith to fit what you want
2. You want it to feed hollow point ammo...take it to a gunsmith, FMJ works fine
3. You want to avoid having the being eaten by sharp edges...take it to a gunsmith
4. You want a longer trigger or a flat MSH (speed bump grip safeties didn't even exist)...have one fitted by a gunsmith
5. You want a lowered ejection port to be able to easily eject loaded rounds or not dent empty casings (unless you got a Commander or Gold Cup)...why? we don't recommend reloads anyway
6. You want a larger thumb safety...why you shouldn't be loading until you're ready to shoot.
When Springfield Armory came on the market with their imported 1911s, they challenged the status que with a better value to start your build on.
When Kimber came on the market, they turned that segment on it's ear using CNC machining and casting. The Kimber Custom came standard with
1. Usable Sights
2. Polished and contoured feed ramp for JHP
3. Beavertail grip safety, lowered ejection port, extended thumb safety, skeletonized long trigger and beveled magazine well.
For 80% of the shooters, this was all they needed; for the other 20%, they would be spending a lot less having it tuned to their needs
All this for less than what Colt was selling their Government Model for.
Kimber made a usable 1911 available at an affordable price. The mid-priced range has always been their strength
mljdeckard
Member
I really think that Colt was being quite complacent, in that they had gone so long being alone in their price point, they didn't think anyone else would ever challenge them.
Neither mine, nor the near dozen purchased by my close friends and family after they shot mine, have ever had significant problems.
There is no such thing as a gun company that is 100% reliable out of the box all of the time. I shot a Nighthawk at a rental range that jammed on me.
Neither mine, nor the near dozen purchased by my close friends and family after they shot mine, have ever had significant problems.
There is no such thing as a gun company that is 100% reliable out of the box all of the time. I shot a Nighthawk at a rental range that jammed on me.
Is that really Kimber's problem, or is that your problem?
I can't imagine not buying an otherwise good quality gun simply because I don't like the name of the company. I feel like of all the troubles in my life, and all the things that I have to worry about, not liking the sound of the name of a company falls pretty darn low on my list.
Hilton Yam said:
I just got from the range and the rear sight fell out of my Dan Wesson V-Bob shooting Golden Saber 230gr JHP!! What a joke!! That has never happened to either of my Kimbers or any of my Ed Browns. I shoot my TEII in USPSA matches which is a lot tougher on the pistol than banging away on a square range. I've shot thousands of rounds through my TEII without any issues.
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Zerodefect
member
<edit> If you need a second opinion head on over to AR15.com
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I bought an Eclipse in 2006 and it became my CCW. When i lived in Memphis I practiced with it several times a month, 200-500 rounds each time. Once it got past the break in period, it has been perfect with the exception of needing a new barrel now at 10,000+ rounds.
I speak for no one but me, and I do not present myself as an expert in much of anything. I have been shooting 1911s for 46 years, and have had 4 with the prancing pony during that time. My Eclipse is a fine weapon and I trust it completely. The USMC Pistol team came to my club to teach technique and I had the armorer look mine over. His pronouncement? Flawless manufacture with a trigger that he would like to give his guys but he can't make one that smooth.
A great pistol, flawless manufacture, excellent trigger, and a tight grouper all for roughly $1,000 back in 2006. I don't see the additional $1-$2K for a Wilson buying me much else other than a prettier pistol.
YMMV
I speak for no one but me, and I do not present myself as an expert in much of anything. I have been shooting 1911s for 46 years, and have had 4 with the prancing pony during that time. My Eclipse is a fine weapon and I trust it completely. The USMC Pistol team came to my club to teach technique and I had the armorer look mine over. His pronouncement? Flawless manufacture with a trigger that he would like to give his guys but he can't make one that smooth.
A great pistol, flawless manufacture, excellent trigger, and a tight grouper all for roughly $1,000 back in 2006. I don't see the additional $1-$2K for a Wilson buying me much else other than a prettier pistol.
YMMV
JohnBT
Member
"The jury came in a long time ago on Kimber quality."
Yes, the marketplace has voted and you are on the short end of the vote. All gun makers have guns sent back to have flaws fixed, even the high dollar ones. And don't get me started on Colt, Springfield, Sig and all of the other mass producers of 1911s, I've been following their ups and downs since the last century.
"A singular experience, meaningless to anyone but yourself, the law of averages and Kimber 1911's, are quite familiar, one with the other."
My singular experience, as you put it, is one fact and that's one more fact than you have contributed. A summary of your opinion isn't a fact.
Yes, the marketplace has voted and you are on the short end of the vote. All gun makers have guns sent back to have flaws fixed, even the high dollar ones. And don't get me started on Colt, Springfield, Sig and all of the other mass producers of 1911s, I've been following their ups and downs since the last century.
"A singular experience, meaningless to anyone but yourself, the law of averages and Kimber 1911's, are quite familiar, one with the other."
My singular experience, as you put it, is one fact and that's one more fact than you have contributed. A summary of your opinion isn't a fact.
Excuse me, but you seem to be taking this all just a little to personally. I really don't have to prove a thing here, I'm just alerting the OP to the prevailing attitude toward Kimber's 1911 pistols, the "fact" is that Kimber 1911's are not well thought of by most serious 1911 shooters, thats just a fact! Any dedicated shopper can easily discover the truth of this within ten minutes of focused googling, or searching, of the various firearms forums archives. Honestly I don't understand why you guy's get so angry over this, it's as though you are personally injured or something when any firearm you have a particular fancy for, happens to be singled out for criticism.
So if you wish to rage at someone about your discomfort pertaining to these facts, why not go and find some serious, competitive, 1911 shooters and bring it up with them, how wonderful your Kimber happens to be that is. In the meantime I'm just trying to save the OP some dough, afterall he did ask!
rswartsell
Member
I think I know what you mean Feanor, but I consider myself a "serious" shooter and I don't compete at all. The needs of competitors for competition guns will be different than my needs and priorities. That doesn't mean that I don enormous shoes and a red nose when I shoot.
It sounds like code for "someone whose opinion is more important than yours". I respect the hell out of Rob Leatham's abilities but I don't need him to do my shopping. I appreciate people sharing their experiences. I just get a little twitchy when they start assuming that I'm not in a position to appreciate my own.
It sounds like code for "someone whose opinion is more important than yours". I respect the hell out of Rob Leatham's abilities but I don't need him to do my shopping. I appreciate people sharing their experiences. I just get a little twitchy when they start assuming that I'm not in a position to appreciate my own.
Fishslayer
Member
I've always kinda chuckled at the foofoo script on the slide. Kinda looks like it belongs on a box of feminine hygiene products.
Illogical as may be, I think some of the owners are a little offputting. They seem to be the first to chime in about certain entry level 1911s, spewing forth the wonders of their chosen piece and sagely advising... "You get what you pay for."
You can almost see the sober nodding of the head. Honestly, some (not all) are as bad as glop fanboiz.wristtwister
Member
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- Mar 28, 2008
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I'm not a big Kimber fan, because when I took my CWP class, a young man's father had bought him a brand new $1500 Kimber and it stovepiped about every third shot. The poor guy got so frustrated, I made him shoot his qualification with my old 4006 Smith... but he was turning the air blue cussing out that Kimber.
Working in a gun shop now, I see and hear just about everything about every gun... and the Kimber "legend" isn't as great as it could be. We get our share of used Kimbers in, and they're usually because of problems the shooters are having with them. The ones I've played with don't seem to have any better quality than most of the other 1911's we carry.
I'd match my Springfield stainless against most Kimbers for both looks and mechanical excellence, and the new Rugers and R1 Remingtons all run as smoothe as the Kimbers we've gotten in. Most of the Para Ordinance 1911's have pretty good characteristics and would match up as well.
I don't really dislike the guns, I just haven't found anything that makes me think they're the holy grail of 1911's which their proponents seem to think they are. We've had some Les Baer and Ed Browns come through, and they DO live up to the legends. I think I'd rather have 1 Les Baer 1911 than 5 Kimbers. They just don't trip my trigger.
WT
Working in a gun shop now, I see and hear just about everything about every gun... and the Kimber "legend" isn't as great as it could be. We get our share of used Kimbers in, and they're usually because of problems the shooters are having with them. The ones I've played with don't seem to have any better quality than most of the other 1911's we carry.
I'd match my Springfield stainless against most Kimbers for both looks and mechanical excellence, and the new Rugers and R1 Remingtons all run as smoothe as the Kimbers we've gotten in. Most of the Para Ordinance 1911's have pretty good characteristics and would match up as well.
I don't really dislike the guns, I just haven't found anything that makes me think they're the holy grail of 1911's which their proponents seem to think they are. We've had some Les Baer and Ed Browns come through, and they DO live up to the legends. I think I'd rather have 1 Les Baer 1911 than 5 Kimbers. They just don't trip my trigger.
WT
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