When Does a .380 Beat a 9mm? Good article
- Thread starter george burns
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Posted by briang2ad:
Two things:
- Anyone can better control (that is, shoot faster with combat accuracy) a .380 than a 9MM in guns of similar size and weight, or a 9MM than a .40 S&W in guns of the same type and weight.
- The cumulative effect of practicing extensively with a hard-kicking handgun is apt to result in irreversible injuries to nerve, tenons, and joints.
Yep. I injured my elbow several years ago starting a stubborn weedeater. Hadn't bothered lately... until I started shooting my subcompact 9mm.
Catpop
Member
I carry a LCP with fmj daily, unless I'm going in a bad place. Then I carry my SP 101 with 158 jhp and Hogue grips. And I have a dozen or so options to chose from.
Catpop
Catpop
Posted by Catpop:
Two thoughts for your consideration:
- While the likelihood of occurrence of a use of force incident may be higher in a "bad place", there is no reason to expect that what you will need to handle it will be any different.
- There is something to be said for carrying the same firearm the same way all the time, so that your reations will not need to vary.
OP
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george burns
Member
For as long as there have been forums, I have been seeing that same statement over and over again, I carry my gun, or my big gun, when I know I am going into a bad area. "Or something close to it". I really wish that we could put an end to that kind of thinking. If anyone who has been shot at, or in a violent confrontation, knew ahead of time that it was going to happen, they would have never left home that day.
You can't think like that. Bad things happen everyware, and being less or more prepared for them because of location, is foolish. Take the gun that you carry all the time with you all of the time. Then you don't need to be less prepared some days than others for the same incident. When it happens are you going to be angry at the guy for not being in the place that you expected him to rip you off.
When animals go hunting, they go where the game is. And usually they go where they have had success before. If I were a stickup guy, I would not go to the ghetto to ply my trade, but to the wealthy part of town where I could maximize my return in the shortest time.
What logic dictates carrying a 10 oz 380, one day and a 357 magnum in a 2 1/2+ lb, gun, the next?
Unless you have gone wheels up, and headed to your next deployment, there should be no reason to do that.
perhaps going someware in the middle, like a 9mm single stack, 'for all around carry", might make more sense.
You can't think like that. Bad things happen everyware, and being less or more prepared for them because of location, is foolish. Take the gun that you carry all the time with you all of the time. Then you don't need to be less prepared some days than others for the same incident. When it happens are you going to be angry at the guy for not being in the place that you expected him to rip you off.
When animals go hunting, they go where the game is. And usually they go where they have had success before. If I were a stickup guy, I would not go to the ghetto to ply my trade, but to the wealthy part of town where I could maximize my return in the shortest time.
What logic dictates carrying a 10 oz 380, one day and a 357 magnum in a 2 1/2+ lb, gun, the next?
Unless you have gone wheels up, and headed to your next deployment, there should be no reason to do that.
perhaps going someware in the middle, like a 9mm single stack, 'for all around carry", might make more sense.
huntsman
Member
So when I go to "town"(village of 2,300) and have contact with less than a 1/2 dozen folks I'm at the same risk as say going to Cleveland? That having an LCP in my pocket is worthless and I should be packing a full size .45acp?
RetiredUSNChief
Member
There is quite a bit of merit to always carrying, and I tend to agree with this. However, like anything else, we make our decisions based on our own perceptions, experiences, and notions, whatever they may be.
Personally, I'd like to carry all the time...however, I do not have that option when it comes to my work. I work at a government naval shipyard and I cannot bring a firearm onto the shipyard property at all, whether on my person or locked in my car. Which means that the moment I leave for work, I can't have one with me until I get off work and back home.
This is the choice I make for the job I work.
Personally, I'd like to carry all the time...however, I do not have that option when it comes to my work. I work at a government naval shipyard and I cannot bring a firearm onto the shipyard property at all, whether on my person or locked in my car. Which means that the moment I leave for work, I can't have one with me until I get off work and back home.
This is the choice I make for the job I work.
Posted by huntsman:
The likelihood that you will be endangered is obviously higher in some places, and at some times, than others.
But should the need arise, there is no reason to believe that your need will be any different.
You need to consider the conditional probability, and not the cumulative probability.
That's a basic tenet of risk management.
Not at all.
The likelihood that you will be endangered is obviously higher in some places, and at some times, than others.
But should the need arise, there is no reason to believe that your need will be any different.
You need to consider the conditional probability, and not the cumulative probability.
That's a basic tenet of risk management.
Hokkmike
Member
Interesting and long thread. Kudos to the author for his OP.
Caliber wars...thought I was past that.
I carry a .380 because I can do so unobtrusively. The modern cartridge is MUCH better.
Yes, I am a fan of pocket carry. Why? - because it keeps you in the game 24/7 with stealth. Carrying is a habit and the pocket guns make it easy to do.
Is it the best? - obviously not. But given the statistical data that none of us are ever likely to use our weapons in self-defense the the advantage of a much bigger, heavier, and more obtrusive pistol doesn't seem like such a big deal. (I stay away from "bad places"...)
Yes, but what about the one time you do need to use your weapon? What about speed, accuracy, and knockdown power? Likely pocket carry puts one at somewhat of a disadvantage for all 3.
But, Practice can overcome a lot.
My notion is, A: No body knows I am armed - I believe stealth is a self defense ally. B: The .380 is small, ever present, and easiest to have on your possession. C: Practice can overcome a lot, whichever pistol or revolver you choose. D: My shooting strategy utilizes an avoid, evade, and obstruct tactic that is employed by so many in open hand defense. Of course -the aggressor, not us, may dictate the circumstances.
Regarding number of shots required - we know that it is all about placement. When I read over the too worn and politically stretched Ferguson shooting accounts I still wonder at the need for so many shots (was it nine?) required by the officer to bring down his attacker. My recollection is that he used a .40.
So, maybe in my situation it will be the first well aimed and/or lucky shot that will do the trick. I would trust practice over luck. I am one of the "center of body mass" believers. But you never know. I read somewhere that the average gunfight is 2-3 shots to conclusion and over in less than 10 seconds.
Well, like I said - I enjoy the discussion.
As we argue and perhaps disagree remember that we are brothers in arms and should support each other for at least being fellow practitioners and defenders of our right to do so.
Caliber wars...thought I was past that.
I carry a .380 because I can do so unobtrusively. The modern cartridge is MUCH better.
Yes, I am a fan of pocket carry. Why? - because it keeps you in the game 24/7 with stealth. Carrying is a habit and the pocket guns make it easy to do.
Is it the best? - obviously not. But given the statistical data that none of us are ever likely to use our weapons in self-defense the the advantage of a much bigger, heavier, and more obtrusive pistol doesn't seem like such a big deal. (I stay away from "bad places"...)
Yes, but what about the one time you do need to use your weapon? What about speed, accuracy, and knockdown power? Likely pocket carry puts one at somewhat of a disadvantage for all 3.
But, Practice can overcome a lot.
My notion is, A: No body knows I am armed - I believe stealth is a self defense ally. B: The .380 is small, ever present, and easiest to have on your possession. C: Practice can overcome a lot, whichever pistol or revolver you choose. D: My shooting strategy utilizes an avoid, evade, and obstruct tactic that is employed by so many in open hand defense. Of course -the aggressor, not us, may dictate the circumstances.
Regarding number of shots required - we know that it is all about placement. When I read over the too worn and politically stretched Ferguson shooting accounts I still wonder at the need for so many shots (was it nine?) required by the officer to bring down his attacker. My recollection is that he used a .40.
So, maybe in my situation it will be the first well aimed and/or lucky shot that will do the trick. I would trust practice over luck. I am one of the "center of body mass" believers. But you never know. I read somewhere that the average gunfight is 2-3 shots to conclusion and over in less than 10 seconds.
Well, like I said - I enjoy the discussion.
As we argue and perhaps disagree remember that we are brothers in arms and should support each other for at least being fellow practitioners and defenders of our right to do so.
duck911
Member
Interesting discussion. There are a lot of great points.
For me, it boils down to this: People have lived after being impaled by telephone poles, and people have bleed out and died after taking an inadvertent pencil to the jugular. People have been killed by BB guns, and people have lived after shotgun blasts to the head.
In the end, I choose to believe that there are SO MANY variables in a self defense situation, that my best chance of survival is as follows:
1) Situational awareness above all else
2) Be supremely confident in whatever weapon I am carrying, based on experience and training
3) Carry a weapon I am accurate and familiar with, and can conceal based on the circumstances, SO THAT AT LEAST I AM ARMED
4) Ballistics is a distant, distant 4th place in my decision to carry
I have 3 weapons that meet the above criteria (in order of my preference to carry, not to be confused with frequency of carry): One is a .357. One is a 9MM. One is a .380. I shoot these 3 weapons the most frequently, I know their fit/feel/function like the back of my hand, and can shoot each one quickly and accurately.
I feel equally protected with either of these 3 weapons.
For me, it boils down to this: People have lived after being impaled by telephone poles, and people have bleed out and died after taking an inadvertent pencil to the jugular. People have been killed by BB guns, and people have lived after shotgun blasts to the head.
In the end, I choose to believe that there are SO MANY variables in a self defense situation, that my best chance of survival is as follows:
1) Situational awareness above all else
2) Be supremely confident in whatever weapon I am carrying, based on experience and training
3) Carry a weapon I am accurate and familiar with, and can conceal based on the circumstances, SO THAT AT LEAST I AM ARMED
4) Ballistics is a distant, distant 4th place in my decision to carry
I have 3 weapons that meet the above criteria (in order of my preference to carry, not to be confused with frequency of carry): One is a .357. One is a 9MM. One is a .380. I shoot these 3 weapons the most frequently, I know their fit/feel/function like the back of my hand, and can shoot each one quickly and accurately.
I feel equally protected with either of these 3 weapons.
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