When does gun stop being a firearm (especially in NJ)

[bushmaster1313]

I am pretty sure that a numbered receiver is always a firearm when it comes to purchase and sale.

What about being a firearm for purposes of carrying it around (especially in NJ)

Same question as to maiing through the post office.

Here are the scenarios:

1) Frame of a revolver without the cylinder

2) Receiver of an AR-15 type without the upper

3) Receiver of a SXS shotgun without the barrels

4) Receiver of Winchester Model 12 without the front end

5) Receiver of Ithaca Model 37 without the barrel.

6) Frame of semi-auto pistol without the slide & barrel.

None of these can be made to fire a projectile but all are subject to BATF as numbered receivers.

Here is language from NJ code:

"Firearm or firearms" means any handgun, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, automatic or semi-automatic
rifle, or any gun, device or instrument in the nature of a weapon from which may be fired or ejected any solid projectable ball, slug, pellet, missile or bullet, or any gas, vapor or other noxious thing, by
means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting of flammable or
explosive substances. It shall also include, without limitation, any firearm, which is in the nature of
an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is
a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or
is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch
in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person.

 

[GRIZ22]

What about being a firearm for purposes of carrying it around (especially in NJ)


What would be the purpose of carrying around anything you listed?

 

[xr1200]

all frames are considered firearms, as long as they are operable meaning , not crushed , cut in half etc.

 

[zoom6zoom]

Same question as to maiing through the post office.

Only a licensed dealer may ship a handgun (yes, including just the frame if that's the serialized part) via USPS. Anyone can ship long arms.

 

[bushmaster1313]

What would be the purpose of carrying around anything you listed?

Making a detour while carrying the item to the gunsmith for repair.

Driving the item to FedEx or UPS for shipment to the dealer for repair.

You want to pick up the entire gun from the dealer but you will not be able to drive directly home. Could you take the two halves back to your house, via a non direct route, on different days.

I know there is a New Jersey case which says that a handgun without a firing pin is still a firearm and still a handgun.

 

[unclenunzie]

In a state which treats pellet and BB guns as legally equivalent to actual firearms, there is little chance a person would not be charged if they make any wrong moves. So the direct answer to your question is, probably NEVER. NJ is anti-gun and this attitude permeates every aspect of it's gun law processes.

You could hypothetically split a gun up into parts bags marked, "firearm parts" and "non-firearm parts", the former being the serialized receiver or frame. On the day you transport the "firearm parts" bag, it better be locked in a case or otherwise secured in a car trunk, with no ammo in the receiver or frame. Sure, it would seem ridiculous being disassembled with all firing parts removed to consider the bag a firearm, but legally it would be. The law (as I understand it) in NJ is the transportation of any firearm must be as direct as possible to the legally-permitted destination - no unnecessary stops along the way. The definition of unnecessary would not be favorable if you had your car parked someplace other than home, range, gunsmith, shipping depot, airport, etc.

I'm no lawyer and this is just my opinion, also being a resident in the PRNJ.

 

[DMF]

Here are the scenarios:

1) Frame of a revolver without the cylinder

2) Receiver of an AR-15 type without the upper

3) Receiver of a SXS shotgun without the barrels

4) Receiver of Winchester Model 12 without the front end

5) Receiver of Ithaca Model 37 without the barrel.

6) Frame of semi-auto pistol without the slide & barrel.

None of these can be made to fire a projectile but all are subject to BATF as numbered receivers.

Wrong, they all can very easily be made to expel a projectile by action of an explosive. 1) install the cylinder, easily done in seconds. 2) slap on an upper, easily done in seconds. 3) slap on the barrels, easily done in seconds. 4) install the "front end" also easily done in a less than a minute. 5) Install the barrel, which can probably be done in less than a minute. 6) install the slide and barrel which on most pistols will take a few seconds.

It is foolish and illogical to claim those are not firearms simply because you basically field stripped them, because all can easily be reassembled quickly.

 

[dprice3844444]

the numbered part is the firearm,whether assembled or not.

 

[bushmaster1313]

1) I am not going to do anything foolish.

2) I agree that the numbered receiver is always a firearm as far as purchase, sale and interstate transport is concerned.

I thought, however, that a shotgun without a barrel in the vicinity is not operable and therefore might not be a firearm for the purpose of possession. Same for an AR lower.

BTW, I would guess that the unnumbered upper of an AR or a semi-auto pistol can be fired without adding any equipment. Load the chamber, lock the bolt, push the firing pin forward with enough force. (do not try this unless you want to lose both eyes or worse)

 

[GRIZ22]

I know there is a New Jersey case which says that a handgun without a firing pin is still a firearm and still a handgun.

There is the answer to your question.

1. Making a detour while carrying the item to the gunsmith for repair.

2.Driving the item to FedEx or UPS for shipment to the dealer for repair.

3.You want to pick up the entire gun from the dealer but you will not be able to drive directly home. Could you take the two halves back to your house, via a non direct route, on different days.

I realize its NJ but as far as your scenarios #1 and #3 just take a little preplanning and in #2 you would have it in a box addressed to the manufacturer or gunsmith.

 

[geekWithA.45]

With all due respect to the OP, People outsmart themselves into trouble with NJ gun law all the time.

I believe that when Pelletier of possessing an unregistered "assault weapon", which the rest of the world called a Model 60, a .22 autoloader with a fixed, tubular magazine that happened to hold > 15 rounds, the NJ judge said

"When it comes to firearms, the citizen acts at his peril"

The OP needs to really hear that, and everything it implies.

 

[bushmaster1313]

People outsmart themselves into trouble with NJ gun law all the time.

Not planning on doing anything even close to being stupid.

 

[GRIZ22]

Bushmaster if you gave a NJ Firearms ID Card and the weapon in question is a long gun you can transport (unloaded, locked or in trunk, ammo separate, etc) all you want in NJ. Not the smartest thing but legal.

 

[bushmaster1313]

Good point on the long gun.

My question was prompted by the difficulty in transporting handguns to my local without taking a detour.

Unfortunately, for me to get a handgun to or from my local FFL requires a special trip, greatly increasing my carbon footprint and contributing in a myriad untold and unspeakable ways to the destruction of the planet.

 

[GRIZ22]

Keep in mind direct route with only necessary deviations (as required by NJ law) is subjective. This is the problem with NJ gun laws as they leave things open to interpretation. This is complicated by "Attorney General Guidelines" whwere they basically let the Attorney General write the law.

greatly increasing my carbon footprint and contributing in a myriad untold and unspeakable ways to the destruction of the planet.


If other countries aren't leaving a big enough carbon footprint they need to catch up.