henschman
Member
Where do you want me to start? For a guy in his 20s, I have had my car searched and my property seized a hell of a lot... I cannot even remember how many times this has happened. No, I'm not even black in case you were wondering.
The worst encounter happened when I was in my senior year at Oklahoma State. I was pulled over by an Oklahoma State University cop while leaving the lake with a friend. We were in my 4 door civic (a really busted-ass car with a spraypaint paint job and no hood). I had an AK pistol and a folding stock Mossberg 500 unloaded in the back seat, piled under some junk, and an unloaded Kel Tec .380 in the pouch behind the passenger seat. There were a bunch of AK mags laying on the dash. When the cop saw the mags, he ordered us out of the car and handcuffed us. He then called for backup and started sorting through the car without any permision. Well, this cop and the wet-behind-the-ears pup who showed up for backup came to the conclusion that my AK pistol was an illegal sawed-off rifle. They let my friend go with the car and the other 2 guns, but they threw me in jail and charged me with Possession of a Sawed-off Rifle/Shotgun, which is a felony in Oklahoma. They said I would have to have a Class III license to legally have anything like this. I attempted to explain the law to them several times, but they were convinced they were right.
Well, the judge set my bail at $5000, so I bonded out for $500. I immediately went and got a copy of the transfer form from the FFL I ordered the AK through, and got a letter from a well-respected local gun shop owner stating that this type of firearm is legal and that he sells them all the time. I then met with the arresting officer's supervising Captain. He told me that the cop who arrested me basically had a hard-on for taking "dangerous assault weapons" off the streets, and that if they determined that this was indeed a legal pistol, rather than a sawed-off rifle, the charge would be dropped.
That was all good and well, but you know how District Attorneys are... they have a big thing for conviction rates. The DA's office dropped the felony charge, but they then charged me with a misdemeanor for "unlawful possession of a handgun," which is a crime that the prosecuting ADA apparently made up. The section that they charged me under was a section of the Oklahoma Code that contains affirmative defenses... specifically, it lists ways of transporting a firearm in a vehicle that are affirmatively legal... it does not prohibit any activity at all. The DA's office called several times and attempted to get me to plea bargain out. They said they would let me off with just a $75 fine and no jail time if I plead guilty (I later learned that this is a technique known as Vertical Overcharging, which is a method DA's use to get convictions). I refused their plea bargain, and hired a lawyer to prepare for trial. At my trial, my attorney made a motion to dismiss. The judge looked up the law and dismissed the case right then and there.
But get this... the incompetent boob of a policeman was there in court to serve as a witness, and so was the POS district attorney who charged me. But of all the people there, the judge gave ME a lecture on how I should be more careful about driving around with guns, and that someday a cop might shoot me. All this despite the fact that I was transporting my guns legally and there were people in the courtroom who had committed false imprisonment and malicious prosecution against me.
The DA also had my AK there as evidence. I asked for it back, but I was told I had to go through some kind of procedure. As I was walking out of the courtroom, the red-faced DA said, "hey, nice pistol," in a very sarcastic, assholy manner. I just said "thanks." What I should have said was "nice prosecution" or "nice malpractice." You always think of those kind of good remarks too late after the fact.
Well, unfortunately, this was before I went to law school, and I didn't yet know about the Oklahoma Governmental Tort Claims Act, which puts a 1 year statute of limitations on any tort claims against the state or their agents, and requires you to get the state's permission before suing them (a real gem of a law, that one). The SOL had just expired on this claim by the time we got to the area of Sovereign Immunity in Torts class during my 1st year of law school, which is when I found out about the law. Hell of a deal. I guess I could have filed a complaint with the Oklahoma Bar Association against the ADA, but I figured I might be practicing in that county someday soon so I'd better not make bad blood (plus I don't believe in professional licensing, so I didn't really want to use that channel).
A couple girls I used to hang out with were dispatchers for OSUPD, and they informed me that the arresting officer left the force just after this incident, and moved to some high-crime urban beat in Tulsa. I'm not sure, but I like to think that he was forced to resign. That would be about the only justice in this whole situation.
I guess I learned several lessons. For one, you may not be breaking any laws, but a determined cop or DA can still make a lot of trouble for you. I'm sure most people they do this kind of crap to just take the plea bargain. As it was, I had to pay $500 bail and $700 for a lawyer at a time when I was pretty broke. Also, there really are DA's who are every bit of the pricks you hear about them being. And all those things you hear about cops, especially university cops, while they may be generalizations, are at least based on truth.
Well, that is the worst search/seizure situation I have been involved in, but I have plenty more stories. One time, I was pulled over for a busted tag light in that same POS $200 Honda. I had a Polytech milled receiver AK and that same Mossberg 500 in the back seat, stored legally. This cop flipped out when he saw those guns. He handcuffed me and pulled out the guns, without any kind of permission, and radioed in their serial numbers. He also called 4 other cars for backup. He asked me what I needed with a gun like that. I was a little dumbfounded at that question, so I said something like "I guess I just like them." He said that it was ridiculous that "kids" like me (I think I was 21 at the time) could get their hands on "high-powered assault rifles" like that. He commented to one of the other officers how that rifle would shoot straight through a police vest. I was calm and courteous the whole time, even as this guy lost it and started demanding whether I have any anti-government beliefs and whether I have ever built a bomb.
Well, even though he was an arrogant fascist pig who was clearly of an "only ones" type of mindset, he was at least more honest than that Payne County ADA, and he didn't make up any BS charges against me. He ended up letting me go. One of the young lady cops that was there, who I knew, appologized for his behavior after he stormed off.
I have been pulled over at least a couple other times with legally-stored guns visible in my car, and the cop has done that same thing... handcuffing me, digging through my car and seizing my guns, and radioing in their SN's. They always say they are doing it "for your safety and mine." What a load of crap. Oh well, I will sue the hell out of them if they ever try that again with me.
Anyway, let my stories be a lesson for you who have less experience with our humble armed civil servants... there are some halfway decent folks out there in the field of law enforcement, who are just misguided enforcers for the state... but there are also plenty of crooked, incompetent, or just plain stupid jackasses out there running around with a chip on their shoulder. So be careful out there.
The worst encounter happened when I was in my senior year at Oklahoma State. I was pulled over by an Oklahoma State University cop while leaving the lake with a friend. We were in my 4 door civic (a really busted-ass car with a spraypaint paint job and no hood). I had an AK pistol and a folding stock Mossberg 500 unloaded in the back seat, piled under some junk, and an unloaded Kel Tec .380 in the pouch behind the passenger seat. There were a bunch of AK mags laying on the dash. When the cop saw the mags, he ordered us out of the car and handcuffed us. He then called for backup and started sorting through the car without any permision. Well, this cop and the wet-behind-the-ears pup who showed up for backup came to the conclusion that my AK pistol was an illegal sawed-off rifle. They let my friend go with the car and the other 2 guns, but they threw me in jail and charged me with Possession of a Sawed-off Rifle/Shotgun, which is a felony in Oklahoma. They said I would have to have a Class III license to legally have anything like this. I attempted to explain the law to them several times, but they were convinced they were right.
Well, the judge set my bail at $5000, so I bonded out for $500. I immediately went and got a copy of the transfer form from the FFL I ordered the AK through, and got a letter from a well-respected local gun shop owner stating that this type of firearm is legal and that he sells them all the time. I then met with the arresting officer's supervising Captain. He told me that the cop who arrested me basically had a hard-on for taking "dangerous assault weapons" off the streets, and that if they determined that this was indeed a legal pistol, rather than a sawed-off rifle, the charge would be dropped.
That was all good and well, but you know how District Attorneys are... they have a big thing for conviction rates. The DA's office dropped the felony charge, but they then charged me with a misdemeanor for "unlawful possession of a handgun," which is a crime that the prosecuting ADA apparently made up. The section that they charged me under was a section of the Oklahoma Code that contains affirmative defenses... specifically, it lists ways of transporting a firearm in a vehicle that are affirmatively legal... it does not prohibit any activity at all. The DA's office called several times and attempted to get me to plea bargain out. They said they would let me off with just a $75 fine and no jail time if I plead guilty (I later learned that this is a technique known as Vertical Overcharging, which is a method DA's use to get convictions). I refused their plea bargain, and hired a lawyer to prepare for trial. At my trial, my attorney made a motion to dismiss. The judge looked up the law and dismissed the case right then and there.
But get this... the incompetent boob of a policeman was there in court to serve as a witness, and so was the POS district attorney who charged me. But of all the people there, the judge gave ME a lecture on how I should be more careful about driving around with guns, and that someday a cop might shoot me. All this despite the fact that I was transporting my guns legally and there were people in the courtroom who had committed false imprisonment and malicious prosecution against me.
The DA also had my AK there as evidence. I asked for it back, but I was told I had to go through some kind of procedure. As I was walking out of the courtroom, the red-faced DA said, "hey, nice pistol," in a very sarcastic, assholy manner. I just said "thanks." What I should have said was "nice prosecution" or "nice malpractice." You always think of those kind of good remarks too late after the fact.
Well, unfortunately, this was before I went to law school, and I didn't yet know about the Oklahoma Governmental Tort Claims Act, which puts a 1 year statute of limitations on any tort claims against the state or their agents, and requires you to get the state's permission before suing them (a real gem of a law, that one). The SOL had just expired on this claim by the time we got to the area of Sovereign Immunity in Torts class during my 1st year of law school, which is when I found out about the law. Hell of a deal. I guess I could have filed a complaint with the Oklahoma Bar Association against the ADA, but I figured I might be practicing in that county someday soon so I'd better not make bad blood (plus I don't believe in professional licensing, so I didn't really want to use that channel).
A couple girls I used to hang out with were dispatchers for OSUPD, and they informed me that the arresting officer left the force just after this incident, and moved to some high-crime urban beat in Tulsa. I'm not sure, but I like to think that he was forced to resign. That would be about the only justice in this whole situation.
I guess I learned several lessons. For one, you may not be breaking any laws, but a determined cop or DA can still make a lot of trouble for you. I'm sure most people they do this kind of crap to just take the plea bargain. As it was, I had to pay $500 bail and $700 for a lawyer at a time when I was pretty broke. Also, there really are DA's who are every bit of the pricks you hear about them being. And all those things you hear about cops, especially university cops, while they may be generalizations, are at least based on truth.
Well, that is the worst search/seizure situation I have been involved in, but I have plenty more stories. One time, I was pulled over for a busted tag light in that same POS $200 Honda. I had a Polytech milled receiver AK and that same Mossberg 500 in the back seat, stored legally. This cop flipped out when he saw those guns. He handcuffed me and pulled out the guns, without any kind of permission, and radioed in their serial numbers. He also called 4 other cars for backup. He asked me what I needed with a gun like that. I was a little dumbfounded at that question, so I said something like "I guess I just like them." He said that it was ridiculous that "kids" like me (I think I was 21 at the time) could get their hands on "high-powered assault rifles" like that. He commented to one of the other officers how that rifle would shoot straight through a police vest. I was calm and courteous the whole time, even as this guy lost it and started demanding whether I have any anti-government beliefs and whether I have ever built a bomb.
Well, even though he was an arrogant fascist pig who was clearly of an "only ones" type of mindset, he was at least more honest than that Payne County ADA, and he didn't make up any BS charges against me. He ended up letting me go. One of the young lady cops that was there, who I knew, appologized for his behavior after he stormed off.
I have been pulled over at least a couple other times with legally-stored guns visible in my car, and the cop has done that same thing... handcuffing me, digging through my car and seizing my guns, and radioing in their SN's. They always say they are doing it "for your safety and mine." What a load of crap. Oh well, I will sue the hell out of them if they ever try that again with me.
Anyway, let my stories be a lesson for you who have less experience with our humble armed civil servants... there are some halfway decent folks out there in the field of law enforcement, who are just misguided enforcers for the state... but there are also plenty of crooked, incompetent, or just plain stupid jackasses out there running around with a chip on their shoulder. So be careful out there.
