When working up a load......

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Cmeboston

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How many rounds do you make at your starting load? Do you load up by .5 gr or so and bring 10 of each to the range and test?
That's what u was thinking of doing. I bought some SMP 846 and understand it is much like BLC(2) so I started 10% below the starting load for BLC and made about 10 of each from 41-44 gr. by .5 intervals. This is for .308 145gr fmj in an M1A scout.
I would also like to work some up for my 30-30 and 30-06. Sound like I am going about it the right way? I've never worked with surplus before but the value made me curious.

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Depends on caliber.

For 9mm, you would not jump .5gr at a time as the load data range is usually pretty narrow. For something like 30-06 though, you can be safe with the .5gr jumps from the bottom of the load data up to the medium high range. I would not approach max at that rate. I do that at .1 or .2gr increments, watching very carefully for pressure signs.

As far as how many of each charge do I take - that depends on caliber too. For my 30-06 I will usually only make 10 or less for each charge. For pistol, I usually will just load up as many to fill a magazine or two. I compare the results and I usually find one or two that was better than the others. If I want to continue to improve it, then I can use the charge level that I determined was best from the last group and use that as a jumping off point for further work-up, working up and/or down with say .2gr jumps. It is sometimes hard to get this level of precision with powder measures so all of this has to be done by hand. For hunting ammo (closer than 200 yards), a perfect powder measure etc will work just fine.

I don't have any experience with SMP 846, so maybe somebody else can point you in the direction of load data with this powder and your calibers.
 
Sounds to me like you are on the right track. For rifle loads I'm not even that thorough. When working up a new load I usually start with a batch of 20 total. I only make one of each for the starting loads then moving up to 3-5 of each charge weight in .5 grain increments as I get closer to max. I check for signs of pressure including velocity at every shot. I do this assuming I have a little history with that particular rifle and have cross reference manuals to see if the one I'm using might be a little ambitious (I try to use the one by the bullet manufacturer I'm shooting). I shoot at only a couple targets and mark the holes from each charge weight as I go. That way I can at least get an idea of what accuracy is doing or when groups open up. Of course I stop and pull bullets at any sign of trouble.
 
If I have a recipe from the bullet manufacturer, I will usually start a little above the suggested start grains and load 3 at that weight, them move up .5 gr and repeat. When I shoot them, I look for accuracy. If one batch groups well with the 3, then I will load up a batch of 20 to try. I don't like to get too close to the Max. I have never found it to be necessary.

If I have some loads of a previous batch, I like to shoot 3 with that batch before going to the testing. This gives me something to compare to.
 
If the rifle load data is showing start AND max charge weights, I will start somewhere about midpoint, or if only a max load is shown, I will typically start at 2.0 grains less. Then, I load 3 at each charge weight, varying charge weights by 0.5 grain up to the max charge weight. At the range, I will run each group of 3 over my chronograph, looking only at velocity. I don't even bother looking at the target, as all I want to do is see what charge weights put me in the velocity range I want/expect. With this information, I then load in groups of 5, varying the charge weights by 0.3 grains, return to the range and look for accuracy, and low ES and SD numbers if the load is to be a LR load.

Don
 
Here is the information provided from the supplier, Wideners,
Dear Reloaders,



Here is my experience with 846 powder.

I started out with once fired 308 brass, LC05 military.

Trimmed to length, full length resized.

Primer = CCI #34 military primer.

Bullet= MBM80 150gr FMJBT bullet w/c.

Firearm= Springfield M1A standard model bought about 1987.

(It has been shot a lot over the years)



I started out with 40.5 grains which was a bit mild, but it did function the

rifle with no FTF, FTE, etc.



I worked up to 43 grains of 846 with the resulting chronograph reading with that load as follows:

43.0 GRAINS, 150gr FMJBT bullet.

1. 2725

2. 2698

3. 2708

4. 2749

5. 2718.

I tested the chrono with known factory military ammo and the readings were all around 2750 for this chrono indicating that

I was getting good data.



There were no signs of excess pressure with 43 grains. The primers were flattened some, but not beyond a normal expected amount.

I also went up to 45 grains with some signs of pressure as the primers were beginning to flatten more than with 43.0 grains. No blown primers with

any loads. I think I will stay at 43 grains for my loads, or maybe 42.5. I shoot at about 100 meters and the slightly reduced loads are fun to shoot and

they are all I need for the 100 meter range.



A military listing shows 45 grains of 846 for 147gr M80 bullet. Remember that this is also the load that functions an M60 so approach that load with caution.



You must understand that this is surplus powder and not canister powder. Canister powder is consistent from lot to lot as tested by

the manufacturer so that loading data will remain constant. So, this means that this powder may vary some from keg to keg as can ALL surplus powder from any dealer

and you should be aware of this. ALWAYS START with a reduced amount of powder and work up your loads to the level you want. Check for pressure, velocity, case

damage, primer flattening, etc. This powder will probably not vary much, but your results may be very different from mine. That is the nature of

surplus powder. You save quite a bit, but you must always approach it with care. You should approach ALL powder with care, even first rate canister powder

from the major manufacturers.



Some people say that blc(2) or H335 is equal but remember these are ONLY guidelines! Work up your own load with this powder that is best for your

rifle, your shooting range, your bullet and your special circumstances. You can’t get exact loading data so do your own.



Have fun. I really like this powder. It meters well, it is cheap, it is clean and looks brand new, there is no clumping and it gives an excellent grouping.

It looks like and meters like 748 ball powder.

I was shooting about a 3” group with iron sights at 100 meters off a sandbag.

Good for me and my old eyes and considering this is not a NM rifle. (not even NM sights)



Good shooting,

Stan Widener
 
So I followed the above instructions to a T but only went to 43Gr. I will try them out this weekend and report back. As I understand I should do the same for 30-06 and 30-30? I looked up BLC(2) data and it parallels what Stan did above. 10% reduction of starting load.
 
If I suspect the starting loads to be on the "low" side of pressure, I will load three of them. If I think the starting loads may be a load that I might want to consider actually loading, I will load five of them.

So, three if I am not "serious" about wanting to load that particular combination and five if I seriously may go with the starting load.
 
It depends on the cartridge, which bullet manufacturer data applies, powder manufacturer data, and the powder charge range for each. my personally, I have almost always started in the mid range and have not had a problem with pressures or accuracy.
 
Welcome to a new level of handloading. Most of the time suppliers use data just a little faster then there lot but not all lots are the same. The smaller the case the more likely you are to find spikes in pressure so no jumping while working up a load.

I start at min or 10% less & working up .2gr. I would only make 3 rounds 1 each until I found one that functioned a auto. I can do this at my house tho. Once you find what functions go .2 over that & make 3 each until you find a load worth looking at.
 
To specify starting at 2.0 grains below minimum or maximu mpublished data is far to broad of statement in my opinion. In fact, I personally feel that doing so would introduce unpredictable variables, very likely dangerous one's including bullets failing to exit the barrel. I've never separated a case with mid range load data or experienced excessive pressures for that matter.
Reloading books recomend starting at minimum published data or 10% below the published maximum, if a minimum charge doesn't exist, not 10% below published minimum, or 2 grains +/-.
GS
 
I'm in the process of making up new loads of .357 mag using 296.
The range is 15-16.7 grains.

So I made up 5 @ 15.0 grains
5 @ 15.5 grains
Then I realized I was using small pistol primers
So I made up 5 more of each with small pistol magnum primers

Then I made 5 @ 16.0 with magnum primers.

I have a chronograph so I'll take that along (probably Monday)
 
I have to concur with gamestalker on this one, 10 % below starting load grains, is way too much! You'll end up, again as gamestalker said, with a jammed bullet, not enough force to propel the bullet out of the barrel. You might also get a powder pressure spike, too much pressure from this too light of a powder charge, best stay with manuf. suggested starting load!
 
I have to concur with gamestalker on this one, 10 % below starting load grains, is way too much! You'll end up, again as gamestalker said, with a jammed bullet, not enough force to propel the bullet out of the barrel. You might also get a powder pressure spike, too much pressure from this too light of a powder charge, best stay with manuf. suggested starting load!

I understand, but we are talking about surplus military powder, not factory. It has a burn rate CLOSE TO BLC(2) but there is no readily available data for the powder I am working with. So starting below a published data for a close powder is very necessary. I'd rather have a stuck bullet than a broken gun or hands.


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If the rifle load data is showing start AND max charge weights, I will start somewhere about midpoint


Exactly what I do. Then I work both forwards and backwards in .5 grain incriments to find the most accurate load. Usually, it's pretty close to the middle though.
I'm not that picky about pistols, as I've found that small deviations in the powder charge don't have as much effect in straight walled pistol cartridges. Then again, maybe I'm just a lousy pistol shot and that's why I can't tell the difference. :)
 
This is for me and for pistol rounds. When I make my 38spcl/45acp/40s&w ETC

I start at about .2 grains above start and work my up at about .2 grains from there. I make about 5 rounds for revolver when I do this and about 10 for semi autos.
Thats the way I do it so I can get an idea of how I liked them accuracy wise and recoil wise.
 
You might also get a powder pressure spike, too much pressure from this too light of a powder charge,
Have you ever seen this happen? If it would happen I would think I would have seen it by now. I have stuck more bullets then I can keep track of just to see where that point is.
 
Yes, I saw this on a 357mag round where a guy dropped the charge over 10% on WW296. This was in the Mid to late 70's. It blew out the primmer. Which you normally do not see with new brass, tight primer pockets.

I'm not sure the WW296 back then is the same used now. If I recall they tweeked the formula.
 
To specify starting at 2.0 grains below minimum or maximu mpublished data is far to broad of statement in my opinion. In fact, I personally feel that doing so would introduce unpredictable variables, very likely dangerous one's including bullets failing to exit the barrel.

I have to concur with gamestalker on this one, 10 % below starting load grains, is way too much! You'll end up, again as gamestalker said, with a jammed bullet, not enough force to propel the bullet out of the barrel.

Guys,

I have checked the posts, and I fail to see anyone suggesting 2.0 grains below minimum loads, or 10% below starting loads.:confused:

Don
 
Well I shot some loads today, .308 from 41- 44 gr. 41 had no FTF or FTE, no signs o pressure, same with 42 gr. at 43 I started getting flat primers so I did not shoot the 44gr.
30-30 I started at 30gr(10% below starting load for BLC(2) and they shot fine, no signs of pressure up to 34gr and I did not make any hotter than that. So I am going to work
From 42gr on the .308 and 32gr on the 30-30.
I did not get a chance to load 30-06 but I suspect the starting load for BLC(2) should be fine out of my big ring Mauser action.
Shooting military powder is a very satisfying way to open another level of hand loading, god forbid I get a wildcat gun!

Just to clear it up, I am discussing using surplus military gun powder, not commercial tested product.


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Went back today with the JC Higgins model 53 30-06. bLC data calls for a starting load of 49grains and a 54 gr max. Again 147g FMJ projectiles. Started at 47 and worked to 54 with no pressure signs at all. I did not shoot a target, just the backstop. Only 9 degrees today. I really like this powder, it meters well, shoots all 3 of my .30 cal guns and is cheap as dirt at $94 per 8 lb jug. I should buy some more


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The factory specs are right on, for a guide for reloading. To much powder HOT LOADS, will melt down your rifling if you fire them to much, and cause damage to other parts as well. Otherwise have fun!
 
The factory specs are right on, for a guide for reloading. To much powder HOT LOADS, will melt down your rifling if you fire them to much, and cause damage to other parts as well. Otherwise have fun!

This is not factory powder! I am working with surplus military powder,
If it were factory powder I would not have started this thread. I take "working up a load" as loading a combination that has yet to be tested or published. Not working with known data for accuracy, that's my next step

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Usually 5 rounds of a particular charge, never more than 10.

My 9mm workup will look something like this:

5 Rounds Each

4.2gr
4.4gr
4.6gr
4.8gr
5.0gr

Labeled as A-E in the loading tray, with notes kept on each row after shooting.
thorn
 
I think the presure spike problem with slow burning powders loaded too light is due to the bullet being delayed from exiting the brass quick enough.
 
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