When would you stop resisting?

[Vern Humphrey]

Not being a commonly-used term in the American vernacular, that makes it sound like you're referring to your shot assailant as "lunch"...

No, that would be hors d'ouvres (pronounced "horse dovers.")

 

[Georgia Gunner]

Yes never give up. Fight until your dead then fight some more.


Edit: O yeah and if im thinking clearly Im goin to yell out my sig line at my attackers as I unleash hell.

 

[rainbowbob]

Here is how one couple in my neck of the woods answered the question recently:

Man sentenced to more than 8 years for botched burglary

By Diana Hefley
Herald Writer

EVERETT — A botched burglary that left an Irishman hog-tied and beaten also has landed him behind prison walls.

Christopher Miskelly, 25, was sentenced Monday to nearly 8 1/2 years for a break-in at a Monroe house. Miskelly, an Irish citizen, is expected to be deported once he is released from prison.

Miskelly admitted to police that he was looking to make a quick buck when he broke into Roger and Donna Angevine’s house in 2008. He was armed with a stolen handgun and a baseball bat. Miskelly also brought along duct tape, plastic ties, nylon rope and a camouflage mask.

He wasn’t prepared for the Angevines.

The couple awoke to Miskelly standing over their bed with a flashlight. He ordered them to the ground and threw a backpack at them and demanded they fill the bag with cash.

Miskelly then struck Donna Angevine in the face with a flashlight. Her husband swung into action. He lunged at the burglar.

The impact sent Miskelly into a wall. The two men wrestled.

Donna Angevine removed the burglar’s gun and then began hitting Miskelly with his own baseball bat. The couple hog-tied Miskelly with belts and kept him subdued until police arrived.

Snohomish County sheriff’s deputies found him lying on the couple’s bedroom floor. Donna Angevine was holding him down. Miskelly was bleeding.

He was arrested after he was treated at a hospital for head injuries.

Miskelly last month pleaded guilty to first-degree burglary with a firearm, second-degree assault and possession of a stolen firearm.

Snohomish County Superior Court Judge Larry McKeeman gave Miskelly a high-end sentence.

Donna Angevine spoke at Monday’s hearing.

“Roger and I know without a shadow of a doubt that we can count on each other with our lives and that together we are an invincible team,” she said.

What she said.

 

[purebred]

Quote:
Man sentenced to more than 8 years for botched burglary

By Diana Hefley
Herald Writer

EVERETT — A botched burglary that left an Irishman hog-tied and beaten also has landed him behind prison walls.

Christopher Miskelly, 25, was sentenced Monday to nearly 8 1/2 years for a break-in at a Monroe house. Miskelly, an Irish citizen, is expected to be deported once he is released from prison.

Miskelly admitted to police that he was looking to make a quick buck when he broke into Roger and Donna Angevine’s house in 2008. He was armed with a stolen handgun and a baseball bat. Miskelly also brought along duct tape, plastic ties, nylon rope and a camouflage mask.

He wasn’t prepared for the Angevines.

The couple awoke to Miskelly standing over their bed with a flashlight. He ordered them to the ground and threw a backpack at them and demanded they fill the bag with cash.

Miskelly then struck Donna Angevine in the face with a flashlight. Her husband swung into action. He lunged at the burglar.

The impact sent Miskelly into a wall. The two men wrestled.

Donna Angevine removed the burglar’s gun and then began hitting Miskelly with his own baseball bat. The couple hog-tied Miskelly with belts and kept him subdued until police arrived.

Snohomish County sheriff’s deputies found him lying on the couple’s bedroom floor. Donna Angevine was holding him down. Miskelly was bleeding.

He was arrested after he was treated at a hospital for head injuries.

Miskelly last month pleaded guilty to first-degree burglary with a firearm, second-degree assault and possession of a stolen firearm.

Snohomish County Superior Court Judge Larry McKeeman gave Miskelly a high-end sentence.

Donna Angevine spoke at Monday’s hearing.

“Roger and I know without a shadow of a doubt that we can count on each other with our lives and that together we are an invincible team,” she said.




That's awesome!

 

[bikerdoc]

Cool story. As i said before.

As Mas Ayoub said "Cause of death was a failure of the victem selection process"

 

[coloradokevin]

Might want to check some crime stats on this.

I believe more modern trends indicate that home invaders no longer prefer to leave witnesses.

Honestly, I would like to see some statistics on this! And, I'm not talking about news articles here, but statistics from a reputable source. In my career in law enforcement I've found that most home invasion robberies do not end in the death of the victim. Many times the victim is roughed up when they provide moderate resistance, and occasionally the criminal is detered by an armed resident. But, I can only recall one home invasion robbery in my career that ended in a homicide (and in that case it was a rather messy triple homicide). I get a lot of murders in the area where I work, but my observations have not shown that they are often occurring as a part of home invasion robberies!

Of course, my personal observations represent a statistically insignificant sample size, and therefore can't carry any real weight on the likely outcome of these cases on a national basis. But, my experiences do lead me to cast doubt on the idea that home invasion robbers are executing more residents now than they have in the past! As I said, I'd just like to see some legitmate numbers on these cases!

Anyway, more to the point of the thread, the decision to cooperate or fight during a robbery has to come from the individual. Owning a gun does not necessarily make you prepared to fight off a home invader, nor does not owning a gun mean that you are incapable of fighting. At the end of the day the fight comes from within a person, and not from the tools that they own. Moreover, every situation is different, and the same person might decide to fight in one situation, where they would decide to cooperate in another!

If I had to articulate my stance on this issue, I guess I would just simply say that I would act in whatever manner I felt would be most likely to result in a positive outcome for me, given the specifics of any given situation! If a robber really got the jump on me, and I couldn't put up a reasonably effective defense, cooperation may prove to be the best option in the short term. But, if I was presented with a reasonable opportunity to fight, I sure wouldn't pass it up (then again, I chase bad guys for a living). The way I might choose to handle things wouldn't always be the right way for someone else to handle them!

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Bikerdoc is onto something here-

Layers. Just like your locks, safes, alams, motion lights, etc. Resistance is the same way. You've got to do it with a clear head. You have to have the mindset/training to be able to figure out when/how is the best way.

This subject brings us back to the "Do you carry at home?" question that's always popping up. After 3 pages of reponses, I'd say all indicators are you should. Even if you choose not to, keeping one within reach for immediate use somehow would be prudent. How to do so if you have kids in the house requires case by case analisis.

 

[Leanwolf]

"Miskelly admitted to police that he was looking to make a quick buck when he broke into Roger and Donna Angevine’s house in 2008. He was armed with a stolen handgun and a baseball bat. Miskelly also brought along duct tape, plastic ties, nylon rope and a camouflage mask."

Statistics notwithstanding, Miskelly was more than prepared to murder the people in that home and it would seem to me his intentions and equipment were to do so.

Those who choose to NOT resist evil people, are actually guessing and hoping that the evil people will not murder, rape, mutilate, beat horribly, or otherwise hurt them.

They are depending on the merciless to be merciful. Bad plan.

On another note, I wonder how Miskelly got into the home?? Unlocked door? Unlocked window??

L.W.

 

[Eyesac]

Boy I would have said:

Short answer: Stop resisting if you believe that such choice is the best way to survive.

But after reading some of the stories on here, I'm inspired enough to say NEVER!

 

[30mag]

It seems that if people get a chance to resist, it ends when someone is incapacitated...

i.e. If I start resisting, I'm not going to QUIT.
I imagine that it might not be in your best interest to start immediately in every situation, but if you start resisting, I don't imagine it is tactically wise to just stop.

 

[thorazine]

Life in prison...

The death penalty...


Is no where near satisfactory punishment for these two...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304496,00.html

 

[Seattleimport]

A while back I started a thread about a carjacking situation, and whether you'd draw ("resist") if the other guy had the drop on you (pointing a gun at you) in a parking lot.

I stick with my answer that I'd relinquish my keys with no fuss whatsoever. It's just property, which will be replaced by insurance.

But a home invasion? No. A home invader is *crazy*, and likely there to not only rob you, but beat/rape/kill you and your loved ones. Resist, resist, resist until the threat is gone or you're incapacitated.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

I would stop resisting when they do. We're not talking Marquis of Queensberry rules here.

 

[YammyMonkey]

If you don't resist during a home invasion there's a good chance you'll die anyway. I don't have the answer to every scenario, but to say that you shouldn't fight back because you don't like your chances is foolish. Obviously it depends on the situation. It is one thing to submit when someone wants the $40 you just pulled out of the ATM. It is another entirely to submit when someone breaks into your home looking to murder, rape & rob.

Think about these things before hand. Where is your line in the sand? Will you go peacefully to the restaurant freezer? Will you watch your wife & child be raped & murdered? Will you lay down on your face so it’s easier for your attacker to murder you? Or will you fight?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Someone can always come up with a scenario where resistance is hopeless. But if I resist, my fate is in my own hands. If I surrender, my fate, and perhaps the fate of my family, is in the hands of people who are known to be criminals.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Honestly, I would like to see some statistics on this! And, I'm not talking about news articles here, but statistics from a reputable source. In my career in law enforcement I've found that most home invasion robberies do not end in the death of the victim. Many times the victim is roughed up when they provide moderate resistance, and occasionally the criminal is detered by an armed resident.

I'm sure it's true that most home invasions do not end in death of the victim, but that doesn't mean the rate isn't increasing.

Problem is that "home invasion" itself isn't a crime. The actual crime is B&E, robbery, burglary, etc so they get lumped into those categories in most states.

The source I reference is a mid 90's FBI LE bulletin which claimed that "home invasion" robberies are gaining in popularity since bank and convenience store robberies are getting harder to pull off due to technology and security measures. It claimed the rate of deadly force used by home invaders is trending upward.

I'm sure a copy of that is online somewhere, I see it referenced from time to time.

That's the problem with statistics, there are plenty to choose from LOL.

 

[mustang_steve]

I'm a fan of using the first opportunity to resist, upon which I will not stop until either I'm safe, or worse happens.

 

[easyg]

I look at it from the criminal's perspective...

Non-violent thieves don't break in to occupied homes.
And if they do so by accident, they flee once they know the home is occupied.

But those who knowingly break into an occupied residence, or choose not to flee once they know people are inside, are not just common thieves.
They are very dangerous and most likely plan to rape and/or kill the occupants anyway.

ALWAYS FIGHT, ALWAYS RESIST.

 

[Commander Crusty]

You stop resisting when it gives you a tactical advantage or they have the drop on you or a loved one. You start resisting again when it is to your advantage. Remember class: Always cheat. Always win.

 

[Broken-Tengu]

Yeah. Like crusty said.

No debate.
If you force your way into my home, I'll assume it's with the intent to steal my property, rape my woman, and kill my child. I'll also assume that you'r armed. You'll come in walking or running, but with my dying breath, you'll have to be carried out.

Alive or dead, I don't care which.