theboyscout
Member
Why is it combo guns are not produce d anymore. Like a 12 gauge and 3006 combo or 12 gauge .308 win
Where are the combo guns?
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tubeshooter
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Not sure exactly why, but I think they had a general rep for being heavy for what they are. Especially being a single shot and all.
Most of the ones I have seen were either .410 or 20 gauge, whereas I think the majority of people are going to be interested in 12 gauge nowadays. Lots of people liked the old Savage model 24 in their various configurations as a versatile small-game gun.
I think Savage briefly brought them back a few years ago under the name "Model 42". I thought they were pretty, um, cosmetically challenged. I see no sign of them on their website now.
Most of the ones I have seen were either .410 or 20 gauge, whereas I think the majority of people are going to be interested in 12 gauge nowadays. Lots of people liked the old Savage model 24 in their various configurations as a versatile small-game gun.
I think Savage briefly brought them back a few years ago under the name "Model 42". I thought they were pretty, um, cosmetically challenged. I see no sign of them on their website now.
Mizar
Member
I believe it's because the "universal" factor - suitable for most applications, but not good for any of it. Outside of the handmade German guns, and we do know that Germans are just a bunch of bizarre fetishists 
, hunters just found out that combo guns suck big time.
P.S. Poachers do like them by the way...
, hunters just found out that combo guns suck big time.P.S. Poachers do like them by the way...
I did have one real drilling, 16 -16 and 8mm under. Light, well balanced and unbelievably well engineered. One shot barrel also regulated for Brenneke slugs, set trigger for rifle, accurate and with a totally repeatable claw mount scope. One of the dumbest moves I ever made, trading that off.
DM~
Member
What a bunch of nonsense!
I've been hunting with combo guns for MANY years, they are extremely useful for keeping you fed!
I took three bulls that day with my 12ga./30-06 and it's no problem at all reaching out to get them too, as it's very accurate!
Here I was testing scope removal and reinstall accuracy,
My combo guns have been very good to me, putting tons of meat in my freezer!
DM
Armored farmer
Member
I have a savage 24 22lr/.410. It's a phenomenal squirrel and rabbit gun.
.455_Hunter
Member
Have somebody make a combo gun with rails & Magpul furnature, and get a middle age fat guy in multicam to positively review it on his youtube channel- Plenty will be sold...
chicharrones
needs more ammo
Definitely. Back in the day, most families I knew might have three guns. A centerfire hunting rifle, a rimfire rifle, and a shotgun. Handguns were more rare with the people I knew.
I remember wanting a double barrel combo gun on occasion when I was a kid, but a single barrel break open shotgun (shared with my brother) and my dad's Marlin model 60 were my reality.
entropy
Member
It's labor intensive to regulate them, and the platforms (O/U, SxS, Drilling) aren't popular anymore. And they aren't tacticool....
WestKentucky
Member
My immediate thoughts are that it would be either expensive to do, or would be a logistics headache on the manufacturers end, and then in the field may not be legal to use for certain situations, or at all in some states for hunting purposes. I’m not sure how it would go over in places with the no-bottleneck rules although a good straight wall chamber could suffice.
It’s probably more about cost. A good rifle costs less than a grand now. Double that for a good rifle with good optics. You realistically are looking at anywhere from 800 to 2000 bucks for a nice bolt rifle, lever gun, or AR style rifle fully outfitted to hunt, less is VERY doable as well. Hunting has sadly transitioned from a popular way of life to a somewhat elite sport with the modern setups with leases and feeder fattened critters, and for some folks an annual lease is going to be up in that same price range or more. So if you are going to hunt an expensive lease, wouldn’t you do it with a gun purpose built for your quarry? So your market is pretty limited which translates into low sales volumes which can still work if margins are right, but margins aren’t going to be right AND be competitive. Your looking at fitting barrels onto 2 reamers now instead of 1. You either have to do both barrels together or you have to build parts to put the barrels together, build the barrels separately, put them together, and pay shipping for all of that not to mention just keeping up with what parts are needed and what consumables need ordered to make all of those parts. Building this gun isn’t going to be cheap.
So it’s expensive to build, has a small consumer base, and has at best moderate margins...can’t blame the manufacturers for focusing elsewhere.
I do like them though. I wish they weren’t gone the way of the dodo.
It’s probably more about cost. A good rifle costs less than a grand now. Double that for a good rifle with good optics. You realistically are looking at anywhere from 800 to 2000 bucks for a nice bolt rifle, lever gun, or AR style rifle fully outfitted to hunt, less is VERY doable as well. Hunting has sadly transitioned from a popular way of life to a somewhat elite sport with the modern setups with leases and feeder fattened critters, and for some folks an annual lease is going to be up in that same price range or more. So if you are going to hunt an expensive lease, wouldn’t you do it with a gun purpose built for your quarry? So your market is pretty limited which translates into low sales volumes which can still work if margins are right, but margins aren’t going to be right AND be competitive. Your looking at fitting barrels onto 2 reamers now instead of 1. You either have to do both barrels together or you have to build parts to put the barrels together, build the barrels separately, put them together, and pay shipping for all of that not to mention just keeping up with what parts are needed and what consumables need ordered to make all of those parts. Building this gun isn’t going to be cheap.
So it’s expensive to build, has a small consumer base, and has at best moderate margins...can’t blame the manufacturers for focusing elsewhere.
I do like them though. I wish they weren’t gone the way of the dodo.
Deus Machina
Member
My first thought is that, aside from the manufacturing issues--it used to be cost-effective to regulate two barrels than to make a reliable repeater--it's that most modern hunters know what they're hunting that day, know their preference on what to use, and buy accordingly.
For instance, in woodlands, I'd prefer a 12-gauge with removable chokes. You could use the same gun to hunt ducks, pheasants, squirrels, and deer. Just use different loads and swap the chokes if needed.
And like WestKentucky pointed out, some places it could cause legal issues. When I lived in Illinois, for instance, hunting with a firearm was shotgun-only. Take a combo gun with you and even if you never loaded the rifle barrel, if a game warden stopped you, you'd have to prove it. Or he could stick you with 'intent'.
For instance, in woodlands, I'd prefer a 12-gauge with removable chokes. You could use the same gun to hunt ducks, pheasants, squirrels, and deer. Just use different loads and swap the chokes if needed.
And like WestKentucky pointed out, some places it could cause legal issues. When I lived in Illinois, for instance, hunting with a firearm was shotgun-only. Take a combo gun with you and even if you never loaded the rifle barrel, if a game warden stopped you, you'd have to prove it. Or he could stick you with 'intent'.
One also needs to check regs in their location. I think the combo guns are neat, but they arnt legal for state land here as your technically carrying both a rifle and a shotgun. Now would that be enforced, well thats up to the officer who stops you and the circumstances im sure.
Mizar
Member
DM, if you find hunting with a combo satisfying then it's all that matters. But why I said combo guns are pretty much useless (today)? I worked for 6 years in a gun shop that was oriented pretty much towards hunting gear. For every combo that I sold there was like 10 shotguns and a couple of rifles in between. And we are not talking about some expensive combination guns - Baikals, CZ, Brno, that sort of stuff. Affordable guns. Those hunters end up using their combos like single shot rifles maybe more than 95% of the time. I mean, they loved those guns, they swore by those guns, but in reality they had little use for the versatility offered. And, sadly, one big group of those hunters were buying the said guns simply because they found them suitable for poaching.
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TheSquire
Member
I always thought it was down to cost. A drilling gave you two guns for the price of one. We seem to have more disposable income these days so more money to spend on >1 gun.
Deus Machina
Member
That, and it's manufacturer's cost.
Making something with two barrels is essentially making 1.75 guns, but there's only so much machines can do to fine-tune two dissimilar barrels to shoot to the same point of aim.
However, machines can make one barrel shoot better, cheaper, than a basic assembly worker could back when combos were popular.
After inflation, it's just gotten less expensive to buy a 12-gauge and a .243 (or whatever) than the work-hour cost of making a nice combo, when people would pay more for one because they couldn't afford two at those day's relative prices so picked up something that would do both.
Making something with two barrels is essentially making 1.75 guns, but there's only so much machines can do to fine-tune two dissimilar barrels to shoot to the same point of aim.
However, machines can make one barrel shoot better, cheaper, than a basic assembly worker could back when combos were popular.
After inflation, it's just gotten less expensive to buy a 12-gauge and a .243 (or whatever) than the work-hour cost of making a nice combo, when people would pay more for one because they couldn't afford two at those day's relative prices so picked up something that would do both.
DM~
Member
I've hunted in several states with a combo gun, when in a shotgun only area, I just never carried any rifle ammo. I've never had a problem doing that, anyone who checked me thought it was a neat gun and as long as I didn't have any rifle ammo with me, they was just fine with me hunting with a combo gun.
As for regulation, Valmets are easily regulated for any ammo by the owner...
Bottom line is, with this "kiddi craz" mentality we have today to blast out as many rounds as possible, no they aren't popular... But, those of us that grew up and learned how to conserve ammo, making each shot count, we are doing just fine with our combo guns!
DM
As for regulation, Valmets are easily regulated for any ammo by the owner...
Bottom line is, with this "kiddi craz" mentality we have today to blast out as many rounds as possible, no they aren't popular... But, those of us that grew up and learned how to conserve ammo, making each shot count, we are doing just fine with our combo guns!
DM
When I graduated from college I had sold all of my neat collectible military guns (bought for about fifteen bucks each from Ye Olde Hunter) to pay for tuition. I bought a new Savage 24DL in 22/20 and used it for EVERYTHING, birds, bunnies, tree rats, quail, pheasant and even deer. Shot a few rounds of trap. I made a wooden takedown case for it to fit the trunk in the front of my VW, a '67, and it went with me everywhere. I learned not to shoot slugs with a .22 type scope on it. A DNR guy told me not to have any rimfire ammo with me when deer hunting. A friend bought one a few years later with the separated barrels and it was nowhere near as accurate. My barrels were full length brazed. My most memorable shot was while pheasant hunting I hit one on the rise and when I got to it and went to reload, found the .22 barrel with an empty and the twenty unfired. I left the rifle barrel empty when birding after that.
I still have that gun and have had almost every version since. Gave each of the boys one of the original Stevens 22/410s just this Christmas. I'd like to find a 22WMR/20 but prices are climbing fast. Really don't care for the new 42.
One shot works for me. I used to hunt pheasant with an autoloader and my percentage of birds per shots fired went way up when I carried it as a single shot.
With our dwindling game populations, I like bows, traditional MLs, and my 24s. Still miss that drilling. There were vierlings with four barrels, a smaller bore in the middle. Think what that would cost to make today.
I still have that gun and have had almost every version since. Gave each of the boys one of the original Stevens 22/410s just this Christmas. I'd like to find a 22WMR/20 but prices are climbing fast. Really don't care for the new 42.
One shot works for me. I used to hunt pheasant with an autoloader and my percentage of birds per shots fired went way up when I carried it as a single shot.
With our dwindling game populations, I like bows, traditional MLs, and my 24s. Still miss that drilling. There were vierlings with four barrels, a smaller bore in the middle. Think what that would cost to make today.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
Not exactly what you're looking for, but the M6 Takedown Rifle may be coming back.
http://tpsarms.com/m6takedown.aspx
The one guy i know who uses one reports the same thing. So far he hasnt gotten any static beyond being told they arnt actually "legal" and having his gear checked for rifle rounds during bird season.
Thats where the utility is lost for me. If I can't have both types of ammo on me, why am i carrying that second barrel? If cost was an issue id buy a swap barrel single shot, they are about 1/4-1/3 the cost of even a low end combo.
Now this isnt to say i dont WANT one, cause i do, and its on the bucket list. BUT its one of the harder items to justify. Right next to the double barrel .45-70.
Armored farmer
Member
ha, that is a great story! You must have been right on the money.
One of my memorable outings with my savage 24 was just the opposite of yours. I took careful aim at a squirrel about 35 yards away in a hickory tree. I had inadvertently left the selector set for the .410. I heard the boom of the 1/2oz of #6s instead of the crack of the .22lr. The squirrel scurried away, and I did the ol' face-palm and went on about my hunt. I was half way across the woods when I heard the familiar sounds....<pop>....*snap*.....(thud)! ..Sure enough, that load of #6s had finally done its job. I was able to collect my game after all!
Captcurt
Member
The cost to build a decent combo is prohibitive. Especially an American made gun. The Savage 24 has a following and I get several in on consignment. They sell when they are priced right. I think that the 24 was dropped from production in 65. The Valmet 2100 was imported by Savage until 1980, I believe. You could get it in 12ga/30-06 and as you can see from DM's post, they are accurate.
One of the neatest combos that has come through my door is Steyr side by side in 16ga and 9.3X72R. Double hammer and double trigger. Dates back to around late 1800's early 1900's. The old gun is rough, but so COOL!
If you have deep pockets I believe that combos are still available from Merkel.
One of the neatest combos that has come through my door is Steyr side by side in 16ga and 9.3X72R. Double hammer and double trigger. Dates back to around late 1800's early 1900's. The old gun is rough, but so COOL!
If you have deep pockets I believe that combos are still available from Merkel.
Farmer, back in the sixties, I was in a ml club but we shot a lot of everything. We had a trap field with a high hill of timber for a background where we shot ml, bpc, and modern trap. One day after we were done with the program, someone, don't remember who, suggested a ten bird 22 match. We set the trap for straightaways and had at it. Winner, and second place had fives. Shootoff went three birds.
Heck, we couldn't hold a candle to Topperwein, but did pretty well. I used one of the Stevens 22/410s I just gave to the boys to win it. No way today, even with a 96% trap league average.
Heck, we couldn't hold a candle to Topperwein, but did pretty well. I used one of the Stevens 22/410s I just gave to the boys to win it. No way today, even with a 96% trap league average.
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