Where do they get DAO?

[MythBuster]

Why are the S&W M&P pistols marketed as DAO when they are a 100% precocked single action pistol?

Even some so called intelligent gun writers refer to them as DAO.

How can Any 100% precocked pistol possibly be considered DAO? Can anyone explain the logic of this to me?

 

[Hoppy590]

im not specifically knowledgeable on the M&P's

but most likely it comes from the same mistaken logic as the Glocks being called DA and later "safe action"

i believe it to be a selling point to police departments. many who feel DA an long and/or heavy trigger pull will keep officers from ND thier guns.

when in reality DA doesnt HAVE to be heavy. nor does SA have to be light

 

[MythBuster]

"but most likely it comes from the same mistaken logic as the Glocks being called DA and later "safe action"

What mistaken logic are you refering to?

The Glock can be called "safe action" because that is what Glock calls it.

The Glock can be called DA because they are not a fully precocked single action.

 

[HorseSoldier]

"Single Action" = "Scary and dangerous" in lawyerese would be my guess, like Hoppy more or less suggested, would be my guess.

 

[MythBuster]

You could be correct. When SA Inc first started to import the XD they refered to it as DAO. Later they started to call it something else.

 

[jocko]

But I think the action is only half cocked and required the full pulling of the trigger to provide full power to the firing pin--thus causing ignition.

guess I should have worded that as I thought the action is only half cocked, yadda yadda yadda. damn what one little word in the wrong place can cause!!

 

[MythBuster]

It does not matter what you think. It is obvious you have not looked at one. The FACT is the striker is 100% cocked.

Anyone that has access to one of these pistols and has the IQ over that of a gerbil can see how it works.

 

[possum_128]

Wow

Guess he told you

 

[MythBuster]

If anyone has one of these guns all you have to do is look at it. Anyone that looks at the gun and knows anything at all about how guns work can see that when you pull the trigger the sear does ONE thing. It moves straight down releasing a 100% fully cocked striker.

 

[SureThing]

I know glocks are half cocked. I have read that XD and M&P's are actually single action, already fully cocked. I think they fall under ESP with IDPA also, but GLocks can be SSP or ESP.

 

[Babalouie]

MythBuster
It does not matter what you think. It is obvious you have not looked at one. The FACT is the striker is 100% cocked.

Anyone that has access to one of these pistols and has the IQ over that of a gerbil can see how it works.

Jocko, PLEASE PLEASE stop posting in this forum as you obviously do NOT have 1/1000 of the brain power and intellect as does Mythbuster. For the love of God man, please don't ever again tell anyone what you THINK as it is obvious to Mythbuster that what you THINK has no relevance to any discussion anywhere EVER! For crying out loud please stop the mindless insanity and persistent Gerbil like questioning that has no purpose other than to annoy and exasperate the superior likes of Mythbuster and those like him. He, not you Jocko, NOT YOU JOCKO!!! is important, valued and esteemed by the THR community. Without Mythbuster and the other SUPERIORS we would all spiral down into a confusing, mumbling, mindless stew of ignorance and disinformaton. PLEASE JOCKO stop the mindless drivel; don't give Mythbuster any cause to leave our community...we would all die without him, victims I am sure of self inflicted gunshot wounds from striker fired weapons that we thought were only PARTIALLY cocked.

 

[Jim Watson]

In my opinion, S&W has pulled a marketing "fast one" on IDPA, IPSC, and a lot of police departments by giving them the idea that the Plastic M&P is a partly cocked striker fired gun equivalent to DAO like a Glock.
In MY Plastic M&P, the sear engages the striker and drops the striker, period. It has a slight rocking motion that cams the striker about as much as the sear cams the hammer in a stock CZ75. But it still counts as IDPA SSP and USPSA Production.
So solly, XD, but you messed up and lost out on a lot of sales opportunities.

 

[jocko]

damn, very touchy people here. sorry about that . Own a M & P even should have paid more attenton to it, as my kahr and glock work entirely different.. Bablouie ur very touchy indeed, guess thats what makes ur chest puff out so much-huh. Being right all the time..

 

[Babalouie]

Jocko, my entire reply was on your behalf...it was complete and total sarcasm directed solely towards Mythbuster. Really I thought your response was very appropriate and did not deserve the very rude response it got. I thought my response was enough over the top that I didn't add a Sorry, man you're good and not a letter of that was directed to you

 

[jocko]

no harm no foul. If this was the first time I was wrong, then indeed I would welcome criticism. I made a mistake, actualy Mythbuster was dead right, i had not really looked at my M & P that much, have had it about a month. love to shoot it, Dave Bowie done a super action job on it and I just assumed it worked like my kahr and Glocks, being striker fired. But you know what they say about assume. It makes an ass out of u amd me. again no harm no foul.

 

[MythBuster]

I apologise if I offended anyone. All I wanted was for those of you that owned these guns to look at them and then you could see what I was saying was correct.

Anyone with the slightest bit of gun knowledge has to be able to see the M&P is a single action pistol.

 

[msb45]

ATF Says

Glocks are double action. IIRC it has to do with how the firing pin is released. I haven't heard of an ATF opinion on the M&P, but the line of thought may be the same.

By the way Glock sought the opinion from the ATF to validate the claim of being double action.

 

[flynlr]

By the way Glock sought the opinion from the ATF to validate the claim of being double action

the same ATF that calls a broken AR a machine gun?

 

[Disaster]

Funny to see someone post this because I always thought the same thing. It is especially disconcerting to see people tune their M&P triggers to 2-3lbs...but still feel safe, because they are "double actions."

M&P's are basically single actions with a trigger safety.

Shhhhh...don't tell anyone!

 

[jlh26oo]

As Disaster alludes to, there's nothing magical that happens jumping from one platform to another, at any given trigger weight or travel distance, half cock or otherwise etc. The reasoning is "just keep your B.H. off the B.S." like with a true D.A.O., which does make sense. The problem is, if you can make that jump, then the same justification could be taken as far as desired. For instance carrying a decocker-only T.D.A. in single action mode, or a feather touch S.A. with safety OFF are both theoretically no less safe than an M&P, as an M&P similarly is to a revolver (so long as you mind the "B.H./B.S." rule), but anyone who considers either of those safe are in a very small minority! I see it as a continuum where each individual draws their own safe-unsafe thresholds depending on their own comfort levels, per numbers and types of safeties, trigger travel distances, trigger weights, visible hammer vs internal striker etc.


Now A.F.A. naming them, when they are not true D.A.O., I always refer to them as "D.A.O." striker fired etc. Safe Action can be especially confusing if you go to abbreviating it (it's a S.A., without a M.S.? NO it's a SAFE action without a M.S. L.O.L.)!

 

[Madison_ultralight]

Prolly just a carry-over from the earlier half-cocked versions like the Sigma. The change was to address trigger-pull issues and most people don't follow that closely. The pin is pulled backward slightly when you fire, but I think it would still ignite the primer from the forward position. Still feels kinda like a DAO.

 

[easyg]

Even though the M&P is a single-action, it sure doesn't feel like one when you shoot it.

 

[JERRY]

if it were double action at all it would require the trigger to be pulled in order to cock the gun and release the hammer.

look at a revolver in d/a mode, then look at a glock or m&p or whatever else.....you will see the difference.


the "safe action" is about the best description of the glock and ilk....

 

[Madison_ultralight]

"Single action, Double action" are terms held over from the days of revolvers. Autoloaders are more like rifles and who ever refers to a 10/22 as "single action only."

 

[Z_Infidel]

The term "double action" has somewhat changed meaning over the years anyway, and "double action only" is a bit of a contradiction.

Nowadays people seem to take "double action" to mean that pulling the trigger causes two things to happen -- the hammer is cocked then dropped, causing the firing pin to strike the primer. Originally "double action" meant a gun was capable of operating in two modes, either trigger-cocking or firing from an already cocked hammer (whether cocked automatically or manually as with a revolver). "Double Action Only" might more accurately be called "trigger cocking single action" since the gun is capable of operating in only one manner.