Where Would We Go?

[mountainclmbr]

I have been all over the world. I would have to count to figure out how many countries I have visited. There really is no country close to the "free" part of the USA. The non-free parts like California, NJ, NY are still better than most other countries. There is really nowhere else to go.

 

[grimlock]

Belize has a total armed forces enlistment of ~10,000...

 

[chopinbloc]

i agree that staying and fighting both the soft war and the hard war (as fred puts it) is preferable and that there is no other nation with anything close to the degree of freedom we enjoy. that said, the original poster posed a legitimate question and i think we should answer it.

i say switzerland and south-africa. not so much for their abundance of liberty (especially S.A.) but for their firearms availability and natural beauty.

 

[one45auto]

I'm not abandoning the soil my ancestors lived and died on for anyone. This is my home and if it ever comes to that I'll fight for it.

 

[Nashmack]

If I was to go anywhere, I would go to Vermont. Most of my friends off the net consider it to be a seperate contry anyways.

 

[chopinbloc]

The problem is that if this kind of extreme occurs, you and your immediate family standing off at your house (heck add your entire neighborhood) will not stop the army of whatever dictator exists.

you're right, that is the problem - that is people thinking they can do any more than make a symbolic and fatal protest with those kind of tactics. to expand on the quote from patton, a revolution in america would likely start like any other - with political assasinations.

 

[hso]

Switzerland doesn't want you and won't have you if you don't have a job lined up.

The same for anywhere else. If they've got dentistry then they've got immigration laws and aren't interested in our sorry whiny a$$es coming to their country without the means to support ourselves.

This whole idea is stupid when you start to look at what’s practically involved with becoming an ExPat. Most folks would have trouble uprooting and moving to another state much less to another country.

SA would be happy to have you if you could pay for it and then find a way to survive there. Oh, and you can't have your guns there either.

 

[Thefabulousfink]

An interesting discussion so far. In the '40s and '50s there were plenty of places that an ExPat could go and live comfortably (and freely) as long as they had the money to support themselves. While some might think that this thread was a silly and usless exercise, I think it might open some peoples eyes as to just how rare (and delicate) our situation is and how important that we perserve it.

 

[Dave R]

Just agreeing with the basic sentiments.

There's no where else to go. I head Rush say "...as goes freedom in the USA, so goes freedom in the world." In this case, Rush was right.

Might as well stay and fight it. Nowhere else to go.

That said, that's what the "freepers" (Free Republic) movement is all about. Take over a state, and make it like the ol' Republic again.

Texas? I dunno. Most of it is good. But Austin controls the state...

 

[AJAX22]

If there was a more free society, I'd have moved to it already.

Standing off against 'the man' would be at best a martyrdom, the u.s. employes over three million soldiers, (full time, part time, and civilian contractors) as of 1996, its gone up since then.

they could have a sharp pokey stick and walk over even the most prepared community.

The war we can win is the one for the hearts and minds of our fellow man, Those people who value freedom will always do whats necicary, what we need to do is impress upon the others what that freedom means, and what responsability they have to maintain it.

Just my 2c

 

[thumper723]

While you say the military would just walk over a community, remember that many of us took an oath :

I, _______, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

Been the same since 11 July 1868. I support and defend the CONSTITUTION not politicians. Given orders to the contrary, it is my DUTY to disobey those orders. And I will, if need be.

 

[wally]

If they think Iraq is a "quagmire", wait til they try to take our guns!

--wally.

 

[Quo Vadis]

Running

Pay attention - the inmates really are running the asylum.

"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer."- Henry Kissinger, New York Times, Oct. 28, 1973

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

While you say the military would just walk over a community, remember that many of us took an oath

This is something that I think about sometimes. A lot of people assume "well you'd have to go up against the military so you'd definitely lose". These soldiers and LEO's are our neighbors and friends, kids and parents, brothers and sisters. They aren't machines. They have moms and dad's and family that they would have to disarm also. If some fat beaurocrat decided we should not be free, well I'd like to think that many or most of them would be fighting right along side us. WE are the United States of America and we won't fold to some would-be "shepard" that wants to make us all sheeple.

 

[V4Vendetta]

"This is something that I think about sometimes. A lot of people assume "well you'd have to go up against the military so you'd definitely lose". These soldiers and LEO's are our neighbors and friends, kids and parents, brothers and sisters. They aren't machines. They have moms and dad's and family that they would have to disarm also. If some fat beaurocrat decided we should not be free, well I'd like to think that many or most of them would be fighting right along side us. WE are the United States of America and we won't fold to some would-be "shepard" that wants to make us all sheeple."


I'll be honest. I'm probably going to upset any LEO's here but I feel it's the truth. I believe that the LEO's will go right along with whatever their superiors tell them to. Look at Ruby Ridge. Shooting a unarmed woman holding a baby is as close to evil as you get. Oh sure maybe 3 or 4 will dis-obey but most will just start flinging lead. Of course I'm a cynic but I really hope that I'm wrong.

I would do my best to get my family & friends to move to a desolate place like Wyoming with me.
Along the way, pick up other freedom lovers.
Organize.
Pray.
Give a speech to my men like Patton.
Go fight.


I really doubt it will come to that. I don't believe that we've got that bad off yet.

 

[Baldy]

Katrina..It Happened...

What happen when Chocolet Nagin took all the good peoples guns in New Orleans? The Guard took them and some Police. The people still haven't got them back. I am 100% behind our Armed Forces & our Police but I will not give my guns to them. We don't own our homes anymore as the goverment can take them any time they want them for any reason. Guns are right behind.

Shoot fast make one Hole....

 

[chopinbloc]

speaking as someone who took a solemn oath to defend our constitution, i can tell you that many of us wouldn't go along but most probably would because they would have a VERY good story to tell us. for everyone who hasn't already, read enemies foreign and domestic for those who have, well, read it again.

 

[Tom Servo]

I'm staying, and if it comes to it, dying here. I've lived elsewhere. I earned my citizenship here. Liberty takes on a tangible quality when you've known other parts of the world, and it's worth fighting for.

There is no other place that enjoys the freedoms we have. Even if there were, as soon as the American system collapsed, they would follow in a few years. Don't forget that ALL of the important human-rights issues (slavery, women's suffrage, freedom of religion, civil rights) were settled and decided here. Not in England or France. If Democracy fails here, it's going follow suit elsewhere.

Not only is it not worth running, there IS no place to run.

As far as the ultimate SHTF, I doubt I'd be shooting at the cops and soldiers I know. As a previous poster mentioned, most of them would've abandoned their posts by then. How many of them, even the weary ones, would really carry out no-knock warrants, property seizures and forced internments?

No, the guys we'd be up against would be whatever dregs the government could slap a uniform on and hand a gun to. I hope they've got a few layers of armor, because they'll need it. I imagine I'll be shoulder-to-shoulder with the real guys who'd already jumped ship.

Katrina showed some of this. Who'd they get to enforce "order" when the system broke? Mercenaries (Blackwater security) and the California Highway Patrol. Good luck getting even them when it all falls apart.

I wonder if there's some point where the lid starts to boil off just enough that the government will realize that the cost/benefit ratio will be just too bloody.

Are we there yet? I don't think so. In ten years, it could easily go there, though. It may be time to start thinking about it now.

 

[XMP]

I agree we don't abandon the country, but there is a lot of merit to consolidated voter strength in a specific locale. Personally I think the Free State Wyoming project has a lot of merit. If you're interested Boston T. Party's new novel "Molon Labe" presents its merits within an interesting novel version.

 

[roscoe]

It is my understanding that not too long ago it took less that $1,000,000 to engineer a take over of a place like the Comoros or Equatorial Guinea, although now that Equatorial Guinea has oil, it's probably out. You will need to hire some real professionals for this kind of work - I suggest asking around the local gunstore for volunteers.

 

[Sylvan-Forge]

For some humorous treatise on starting your own country

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_300.html

http://www.geocities.com/micronations/



First thing I think needs to happen in America is getting people talking, such as we are, and networking, educated, aware, and proactive.

Getting rid of any questionable voting mechanations .. ie. Black Box Voting.
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

Third party. Unless we can put our own 'counter-subversives' into the big parties.




Edited to remove some thoughts from sleeve.


I'll just say I figure the breaking point will follow something like this : Catastrophe followed by economic collapse,
followed by a plan (and fearless leader, naturally) that will "save" us from ourselves.

 

[qajaq59]

When I think about it, if Hillary does get elected that would very likely doom the Democratic party for the next 50 years. The liberals should be more careful what they wish for.......

 

[redneck2]

The next election may well be the most important in history for the US as we know it. If the libs get control of the White House, senate, and house again, you can bet that they'll do anything, and I mean most ANYTHING to keep control.

Their endless screaming hatred of GW proves that. They're willing to totally disregard any and all rights, give away endless billions to buy votes, and totally open the border to illegals and felons just to curry favor with a few voters. I'm no big fan of GW at this point. Both parties are hell bent on out spending the other to buy a few votes at my expense. At this point, about the only difference I see is that republicans won't take my guns and are very slightly less "open border" than the libs.

Remember, it's not the typical 48% off the voters you have to sway. In the bulk of elections, there is a 48-48 split already built in. You only have to sway 3% of the total to win an election, not 51%. It's that little scrap of voters that controls policy, not the tax paying majority.

 

[veloce851]

As stated above, staying and fighting for America is the only choice.
However in the interest of furthering the initial question posed...

I have always been interested in Chile, primarly due to its geography.
But their history of parliamentary republic to coup d'état to socialist democracy to coup d'état to their present democratic state, is rather intriguing.

 

[kansas45]

I'll stay.

I grew up in the country. Farm boy/cow boy & general hellraiser. Just like everybody else did. My friends were black, brown, red w/a few yellow kids around too. for the most part we respected each others race & heratige. I won't say there wasnt any raciest among us, but we got along just fine. Now that I'm in my early 50's I see the change in my small town. Most of the friends I had in early life are still friends. The change has come from the illigeals & the influx of people from other places moving here because of jobs & such. We are in KANSAS, Dorthy! Not Chicago. Not L.A. Not Mexico City or Hong Kong. The short time I have spent visiting other parts of our country or other countrie's I did respect their values & beliefs, I only wish that people visiting, or moving here for work would do the same. You are on United States of America soil. Many men have fought & died to build this Country & to defend Her border's. I signed up for the draft during the Viet Nam war but didn't get drafted or sign up with the military. Had I have been drafted I would have served my Country the best that I could. I'm too old(?) to join now but will fight here to defend Her now! Just this morning I wen't to the new 24 hour Wal-Mart Super Center in my town to look at the guns & ammo that they don't have & to get some things I needed. Then I stoped at McDonalds to get some breakfast. Both of those places(and alot more) need spanish speeking check out lines.