Which .380?
- Thread starter Felonious Monk
- Start date
- Status
Sistema1927
Member
Other.
Kahr PM-9. If she can handle the recoil from a P-32, then she will have no trouble with a PM-9, and she will get a more robust self-defense round.
Kahr PM-9. If she can handle the recoil from a P-32, then she will have no trouble with a PM-9, and she will get a more robust self-defense round.
71Commander
Member
I have 2 .380's.
a Colt Gov't, Mark IV and a NAA Guardian.
The Guardian is about the same size as the Kel-tec but alot more managable recoil as it is heavier.
I sold a Bersa to get the Colt. Nuf said. Loved the Bersa BTW.
a Colt Gov't, Mark IV and a NAA Guardian.
The Guardian is about the same size as the Kel-tec but alot more managable recoil as it is heavier.
I sold a Bersa to get the Colt. Nuf said. Loved the Bersa BTW.
TennTucker, I had a Guardian and got rid of it because it was painfull to shoot. Remember the Guardian is a blowback and the Keltec is a locked breach, tilt barrel design much like the 1911. Even thought the Keltec weighs less than the Guardian, it has much less felt recoil.
With the Keltec a lot of the recoil is absorbed when the barrel moves back with the slide.
By the way, the much heavier Guardian feels like a brick in my pocket when compared to the Keltec and it is thicker than a Keltec P32 or P-3AT.
With the Keltec a lot of the recoil is absorbed when the barrel moves back with the slide.
By the way, the much heavier Guardian feels like a brick in my pocket when compared to the Keltec and it is thicker than a Keltec P32 or P-3AT.
71Commander
Member
I had a Kel-tec and sold it to get the NAA. Not one moment of regret, never.
Recoil is a matter of perception. I did not like the KT. I don't like plastic guns. At 17 ozs. the NAA has perfect weight for a super small pocket rocket. I have a tuckable holster for it as well so to me the weight isn't even an issue.
Recoil is a matter of perception. I did not like the KT. I don't like plastic guns. At 17 ozs. the NAA has perfect weight for a super small pocket rocket. I have a tuckable holster for it as well so to me the weight isn't even an issue.
TennTucker, plastic guns don't bother me. If it shoots well and is reliable, that's all I care about.
Kind of like blonds and brunettes. I like both if they work OK.
As for recoil being a preception.Try telling that to my arthritic joints.
Kind of like blonds and brunettes. I like both if they work OK.
As for recoil being a preception.Try telling that to my arthritic joints.
Felonious Monk
Member
Thanks guys!
We've already ruled out the subcompact platform of the P3AT, NAA, Rohrbaugh, etc.
Final decision is (of course) hers, but I put alot of stock in the advice from this board. Marko, if the Bersa will REALLY do all that the Sig does for 1/2 the price, I sort of hope she goes that route.
I sure like the CZ line, but if it's that bulky, it's going to lose points for ease of carry.
I'm inclined to think the Colt Mustang and Browning BDA are also going to be a tad...chunky...for her tastes.
The sexy, '70's James Bond design thing going on with the Sig and the Bersa may appeal to her aesthetically, and coupled with the high marks they both receive for reliability etc...
I'm just making a WAG and I've been wrong before, but it may come down to those two.
I'll let you know soon just how stupid I really am at guessing a woman's choices.
We've already ruled out the subcompact platform of the P3AT, NAA, Rohrbaugh, etc.
Final decision is (of course) hers, but I put alot of stock in the advice from this board. Marko, if the Bersa will REALLY do all that the Sig does for 1/2 the price, I sort of hope she goes that route.
I sure like the CZ line, but if it's that bulky, it's going to lose points for ease of carry.
I'm inclined to think the Colt Mustang and Browning BDA are also going to be a tad...chunky...for her tastes.
The sexy, '70's James Bond design thing going on with the Sig and the Bersa may appeal to her aesthetically, and coupled with the high marks they both receive for reliability etc...
I'm just making a WAG and I've been wrong before, but it may come down to those two.
I'll let you know soon just how stupid I really am at guessing a woman's choices.
denfoote
Member
Other!!!
In the form of Pistolet Makarova!!
They can be had for less than the rest and are MORE reliable!!!
Hey, the Iron Curtain rocks, Baby!!
In the form of Pistolet Makarova!!
They can be had for less than the rest and are MORE reliable!!!
Hey, the Iron Curtain rocks, Baby!!
Gunnutz13
Member
My 2 cents...
FM...Never make a self defense weapon decision based on price...your wife might not live to regret it. It should be made on reliability...when the SHTF, it better work! Having said that, my choice in .380acp is a Walther PPK/s. Good strong platform, in an easy to conceal size. But not as small as the other sub-compacts you have already ruled out. Another good choice would be a Makarov in 9x18, slightly bigger frame, slightly more potent caliber. I own one of each and have carried both concealed...which means I trusted both explictly. Which ever make, model and caliber you choose...run a couple hundred rounds down range to check reliability...practice drawing from concealment...and shooting without using the sights ( point shooting ) at a man-sized target no farther away than a couple of yards. That's what your wife will need to survive a "real world" confrontation. Take care...
FM...Never make a self defense weapon decision based on price...your wife might not live to regret it. It should be made on reliability...when the SHTF, it better work! Having said that, my choice in .380acp is a Walther PPK/s. Good strong platform, in an easy to conceal size. But not as small as the other sub-compacts you have already ruled out. Another good choice would be a Makarov in 9x18, slightly bigger frame, slightly more potent caliber. I own one of each and have carried both concealed...which means I trusted both explictly. Which ever make, model and caliber you choose...run a couple hundred rounds down range to check reliability...practice drawing from concealment...and shooting without using the sights ( point shooting ) at a man-sized target no farther away than a couple of yards. That's what your wife will need to survive a "real world" confrontation. Take care...
Felonious Monk
Member
Thanks Gunnutz, We'll heed that advice.
I already own an unfired Bulgie Makarov, and Honey (SWMBO) is totally underwhelmed by the whole WWII aura. Yep, I know. Stone-cold reliable, but this is HER choice and it's one she's crossed off the list.
Your (and MY, as well) mileage may vary.
I already own an unfired Bulgie Makarov, and Honey (SWMBO) is totally underwhelmed by the whole WWII aura. Yep, I know. Stone-cold reliable, but this is HER choice and it's one she's crossed off the list.
Your (and MY, as well) mileage may vary.
edefonzo
Member
Bersa Thunder .380.
My Bersa Thunder .380 has been the easiest handgun I own to carry concealed. It's light, slim, very, very reliable, and has all of the features you can desire in a handgun. Plus it has terrific service accuracy at 50 feet, which is the length of the indoor range at my club. I carry it in a variety of holsters, though two of the best for that gun are the Uncle Mike's ankle holster and the Fobus paddle holster.
The CZ 83 is a great pistol, but the concensus is correct that it is a bit heavy. When I wanted to move up in caliber for concealment I went to the CZ 2075 RAMI in a High Noon "Speedy Spanky" paddle holster.
In a .380 for your wife, select the Bersa.
Have Fun and Be Safe.
Ed
My Bersa Thunder .380 has been the easiest handgun I own to carry concealed. It's light, slim, very, very reliable, and has all of the features you can desire in a handgun. Plus it has terrific service accuracy at 50 feet, which is the length of the indoor range at my club. I carry it in a variety of holsters, though two of the best for that gun are the Uncle Mike's ankle holster and the Fobus paddle holster.
The CZ 83 is a great pistol, but the concensus is correct that it is a bit heavy. When I wanted to move up in caliber for concealment I went to the CZ 2075 RAMI in a High Noon "Speedy Spanky" paddle holster.
In a .380 for your wife, select the Bersa.
Have Fun and Be Safe.
Ed
telomerase
Member
Man, I've heard of wives not liking their husband's hobbies, but that's the highest level of intolerance I've ever heard of. (Were the planes in flight or caught refueling on the field? Were you able to do any evasive maneuvering?)
I have a Bersa and usualy have it in the car. Since the Bersa and the P-3AT use the same cartridge and I carry a P-3AT, they go good together. IMO, the Bersa is a fine, 100% reliable pistol with one of the best single/double action triggers I have yet to shoot, mild felt recoil, good sights and a grip that fits my smallish hand.
However, I would not consider it small enough for concealment. The Bersa does shoot the same cartridge as the P-3AT, but is a little bigger. Well, maybe a lot bigger.
However, I would not consider it small enough for concealment. The Bersa does shoot the same cartridge as the P-3AT, but is a little bigger. Well, maybe a lot bigger.
Fletchette
Member
I've had a Sig P230 (predecessor to P232, very minor changes) for decades and it has worked almost flawlessly. I say "almost" because I did intentionally abuse it by not cleaning it for ~700 rounds and then it did start jamming. I think this is phenominal for a direct-blowback, as they tend to blow more crud back into the mechanics of the gun due to the case moving while under pressure. Gun is accurate too.
Aside from reliability, it is very light (17 oz) and slim. The recoil spring is around the barrel so the muzzle is very slim. Heal mounted mag release insures no accidental mag releases when in deep concealment.
I have only recently, semi-retired it. I just bought a S&W Scandium w/ laser sights. It is even lighter (11 oz!) and can launch full-house .357. Without a slide or exposed hammer it can even be fired reliably from inside a pocket. For the recoil adverse, there are pleanty of good .38 Special loads out there with the same effectiveness as .380 ACP (or even slightly better).
I carry these as hot weather guns and/or backup. Main gun is 9mm Walther.
Hope that helps.
Aside from reliability, it is very light (17 oz) and slim. The recoil spring is around the barrel so the muzzle is very slim. Heal mounted mag release insures no accidental mag releases when in deep concealment.
I have only recently, semi-retired it. I just bought a S&W Scandium w/ laser sights. It is even lighter (11 oz!) and can launch full-house .357. Without a slide or exposed hammer it can even be fired reliably from inside a pocket. For the recoil adverse, there are pleanty of good .38 Special loads out there with the same effectiveness as .380 ACP (or even slightly better).
I carry these as hot weather guns and/or backup. Main gun is 9mm Walther.
Hope that helps.
yesterdaysyouth
Member
i've shot the beretta, bersa, and the sig... i would perfer the sig myself.. i didn't care for the bersa because the square edges on the trigger guard cut into my fat fingers somthing serious.... the wide backstrap and smooth frontstrap on the beretta(BDA 380) made the snappy recoil even worse...
Felonious Monk
Member
An UPDATE...
Cool!
So we went to my favorite firearms establishment (the LARGEST in all of Tallapoosa County, yet!), and managed to let her fondle the Bersa, the Beretta 86, the Sig (in P230), and a Colt Mustang.
Final tally:
Beretta--far too large a grip. Out.
Bersa--(which I loved)--felt wierd/sideways in her hand (go figure )
Colt-- not her cup of tea
Sig-- She LOVED it. Apparently, they did, too. Wanted $550 for it.
Now, we've gotta find a range in Birmingham or Montgomery where we can go shoot as many as possible. Ala Dan or any of you other guys down this way have any insight on that?
Thanks guys,
Ben/FM
Cool!
So we went to my favorite firearms establishment (the LARGEST in all of Tallapoosa County, yet!), and managed to let her fondle the Bersa, the Beretta 86, the Sig (in P230), and a Colt Mustang.
Final tally:
Beretta--far too large a grip. Out.
Bersa--(which I loved)--felt wierd/sideways in her hand (go figure
)Colt-- not her cup of tea
Sig-- She LOVED it. Apparently, they did, too. Wanted $550 for it.
Now, we've gotta find a range in Birmingham or Montgomery where we can go shoot as many as possible. Ala Dan or any of you other guys down this way have any insight on that?
Thanks guys,
Ben/FM
Wilson 17&26
Member
I assume I am voting by secret ballot, so I won’t disclose how I voted
Just carried my Sig P230 SL to the range today to try a few different loads. Found the plain old Winchester to be the most accurate with 3" groups at 50'. I could shoot that pistol all day if I could get someone to reload the 7rnd mags. The purchase was for my wife who didn't like the G26 I bought her and couldn't rack a Beretta Cheetah.
Looked strongly at the Bersa before I bought and found nothing wrong with it at all. I was able to find a used and perfectly functioning stainless P230 for $300. I've done nothing more than clean and lube it and it goes bang when you ask it to.
I'm a great Beretta fan but frankly, the Cheetah line doesn't impress me as much as the Sig. The model 86 Cheetahs with the tip up barrel are very nice albeit heavy and very expensive for the most part. Even used there're usually well over $400.
Sig or Bersa, in that order. IMHO.
Luck in your search.
Looked strongly at the Bersa before I bought and found nothing wrong with it at all. I was able to find a used and perfectly functioning stainless P230 for $300. I've done nothing more than clean and lube it and it goes bang when you ask it to.
I'm a great Beretta fan but frankly, the Cheetah line doesn't impress me as much as the Sig. The model 86 Cheetahs with the tip up barrel are very nice albeit heavy and very expensive for the most part. Even used there're usually well over $400.
Sig or Bersa, in that order. IMHO.
Luck in your search.
I voted for the CZ, but I'm biased. I just like the CZ and you can't beat the price. Not the best for CCW, but then again neither is the .380. I would recomend that you look at something like a Kahr P9 or K9. The same size, or smaller, than most .380s but with a much better round. Have her try out all of these and see which one she likes the best. That's all that really counts. If she dosen't like it she won't shoot or carry it.
Better yet, get all of them. You know you want them all, and you know she's gonna change her mind.
Calhoun
Better yet, get all of them.
You know you want them all, and you know she's gonna change her mind. Calhoun
Felonious Monk
Member
Hammer-Ed, Thanks for the input. Is that grip in the picture on your P230 with the finger grooves stock, aftermarket, or ??? (I think that would add greatly to the comfort of shooting the P230/232.
Wilson--You know from other boards I'm a die-hard KelTec fan. Their .380 is too small a platform for her needs (a smoother, less snappy, and specifically-requested LARGER carry gun).
Calhoun-- Sorry, I know Kahr owners like 'em alot, but if I was going to go the 9mm route, we'd go with a KelTec P11. Or, a couple of 'em and a decent day's ammo for the price of one Kahr.
All-- She shot my P11 yesterday and had a bit of a hard time with the 9mm. Not terrible, and she said she was fine with it, but I could see her changing her grip around and getting frustrated that she couldn't get back on target after a shot (using Standard Wally-World StuffMart Winchester FMJ), unlike her P32, of which she is the Exalted High Ramma-Lamma.
SO, I really think the .380 cartridge (naysayers re: stopping power aside) is the RIGHT step for her at this juncture. We just need the right launching platform.
I/we're still open to input, but I bet we wind up with a Sig for her before long.
Wilson--You know from other boards I'm a die-hard KelTec fan. Their .380 is too small a platform for her needs (a smoother, less snappy, and specifically-requested LARGER carry gun).
Calhoun-- Sorry, I know Kahr owners like 'em alot, but if I was going to go the 9mm route, we'd go with a KelTec P11. Or, a couple of 'em and a decent day's ammo for the price of one Kahr.
All-- She shot my P11 yesterday and had a bit of a hard time with the 9mm. Not terrible, and she said she was fine with it, but I could see her changing her grip around and getting frustrated that she couldn't get back on target after a shot (using Standard Wally-World StuffMart Winchester FMJ), unlike her P32, of which she is the Exalted High Ramma-Lamma.
SO, I really think the .380 cartridge (naysayers re: stopping power aside) is the RIGHT step for her at this juncture. We just need the right launching platform.
I/we're still open to input, but I bet we wind up with a Sig for her before long.
Marko Kloos
Moderator Emeritus
Ouch! Going rate for a used P230 is more like $300-350 around here, $350-400 for a used P232 in good shape. New ones will set you back in the mid-fours or low fives, depending on version, but it's well worth it.
FM, those are the Hogue wrap-arounds I put on all of my pistols. About $15.00 everywhere. A lot of the new and used stainless Sigs will come with these grips. Mine did not so I just bought one.
The nice thing about the Hogue grips for the P230, is that they wrap completely aroung the grip. Even the backstrap is rubber covered. They do make quite a bit of difference in comfort at the penalty of being somewhat sticky when drawing from a holster. Your clothing tends to drag along the grips slowing the draw. Some have complained about this, I don't have a problem with it.
The nice thing about the Hogue grips for the P230, is that they wrap completely aroung the grip. Even the backstrap is rubber covered. They do make quite a bit of difference in comfort at the penalty of being somewhat sticky when drawing from a holster. Your clothing tends to drag along the grips slowing the draw. Some have complained about this, I don't have a problem with it.
- Status
