Which .45 ACP load is better for personal protection?

[stinger 327]

230 grain hollow point that travels at 950 fps or a 185 grain .45 ACP hollow point that travels at 1,150 fps?

 

[CoRoMo]

Well... I will always go with the heavier projectile. But there are a couple things that the chosen round has to prove before I will actually choose it. As long as that specific round feeds 100% flawlessly, over 100-200 rounds through my pistol, and it shoots to the point of aim, it is good to go.

 

[Deanimator]

I prefer to split the difference and use the 200gr. Hornady T.A.P. JHP.

 

[CDW4ME]

I agree with CoRoMo.

I typically prefer 230 gr. in 45, but accuracy and reliability come first.

 

[rmfnla]

Whichever is most reliable in your gun.

If they both work well I'd go for the heavier slug.

 

[Claude Clay]

would you rather get hit by a 3600 pound car traveling 50 mph or a 3000 pound car traveling 60 mph?

seriously, unless your shot is to the CNS, 8 seconds is the time it takes for blood loss to cause the BG to collapse.
lighter & faster will penetrate deeper into the body thus increasing the chance of cutting an artery.
knowing this i have many other reasons for carrying a 230gr.

this topic has been done here before--try 'search' for similar threads

 

[Vern Humphrey]

lighter & faster will penetrate deeper into the body thus increasing the chance of cutting an artery.

Not necessarily -- especially not if you're using an expanding bullet. If penetration is what you want, a heavier bullet is usually better than an equivallent light bullet.

 

[CoRoMo]

...lighter & faster will penetrate deeper...

Common misconception. The lighter round loses its inertia quicker than a heavier round, meaning it will be more easily slowed and stopped, meaning it does not penetrate deeper because it is lighter and faster.

THIS topic has been discussed equally as often.




edit: Vern's post hit simultaneously as mine, so he wins this round of ballistic correction bingo.

 

[ArmedBear]

The ammo companies have BSed us for years with energy, which distort the influence of velocity. There are other numbers that they don't like to publish, but they matter.

There is no point in using a 185 grain bullet in .45 ACP IMO. I like .45s, but if I'm going to shoot a bullet in that range, I can get a smaller gun with more capacity in .40 S&W. The whole point of a .45 is to shoot a big, heavy slug.

Also, you will get LESS penetration from a larger diameter bullet than a smaller diameter, if the weight and velocity are the same. Same weight, same velocity, same energy, same momentum, but the bigger bullet is bigger... Meaning it needs more of the above to push through the same obstacles and reach the same distance.

 

[SSN Vet]

Here's Remingtons comparison for the Golden Sabre (which I like a lot)



I load the 230 Rem Golden Sabre bullet over 5.5 gr of W231 and it's a stout, but very manageable round to fire in my steel framed Commander.

I purchased a box of the 185 Gr +P factory loaded Golden Sabre ammo. and imo it is "harsh". The first time I tested it, all heads on the range turned and one guy runs over asking "are you all right"

So what does this mean to me?

Can you "stop" a target DRT with the +p 185.... yup!
Can you "stop" a target DRT with the 230.... yup!

Can a BG continue the fight with an ill placed shot from either... yup!

IMO, with any handgun engagement, shot placement is always the critical factor.... so practice, practice, practice..

I want to practice with what I carry, and practicing with the +P is going to beat the snot out of my gun.

YMMV

Happy Trails

 

[NMGonzo]

The one that lands on the bad guy vital organs.

 

[Buck Snort]

Well... I will always go with the heavier projectile. But there are a couple things that the chosen round has to prove before I will actually choose it. As long as that specific round feeds 100% flawlessly, over 100-200 rounds through my pistol, and it shoots to the point of aim, it is good to go.

Well, its good to know there are people here who can AFFORD to put 200 rounds of expensive ammo through their guns to test reliability. And if one particular round does not work I guess you then spend Xhundred dollars testing another brand? When I win the lottery I'll follow that plan. In the mean time, I'm sorta stumped.

 

[CoRoMo]

Well, your mileage may vary. Some people choose a rounds by the way the hollow point looks, they load up a magazine and carry it around without ever having tested their setup. They would probably also say they put 100% of their trust in that thing working if needed, buy my mileage varies greatly. My trust is not so easily earned, and my carry gun's monetary value is minuscule, compared to the cost of the ammo I want to put through it in practice.

One or two hundred dollars in ammo is nowhere near what I'd call lottery money. Fighting pistol courses cost me $550 each, and they require me to bring about a case of ammo with. Heck, the NRA PPIH/PPOH cost about $200. One or two hundred dollars is far less than what my gun cost me. A case of range ammo costs about $200, and I plan to put a few of those through my guns before I trust my skills like I trust my gun. I'm cursedly skeptical of my skills and my equipment, YMMV.

 

[gunnie]

well, not really the OP's question, but for a good cross between HP and ball, i use 230gr flat point ball. if you think about it some, there are many situations where penetration is very useful. has saved my assets in the past.

gunnie

 

[stinger 327]

Well, its good to know there are people here who can AFFORD to put 200 rounds of expensive ammo through their guns to test reliability. And if one particular round does not work I guess you then spend Xhundred dollars testing another brand? When I win the lottery I'll follow that plan. In the mean time, I'm sorta stumped.

I understand alot of people just run the loads through a dry fire session. Rack the slide and see if the bullets feed through without any hang ups without actually firing or pulling trigger.

 

[KodiakBeer]

I don't give a damn about penetration in a .45. Any weight penetrates enough for self defense use. If you're planning on shooting somebody through a windshield or wall then you're not defending yourself.

I shoot an aluminum framed compact and I've carried 165 grain Hydra-Shoks in it for a dozen years. The lighter weights create less recoil and help keep my sights on the target. I've used it on deer and it works very well, so I have no reason to change.

 

[stinger 327]

The diameter of the .45 is the same. Regardless it is going to make big holes whether it expands or not but somewhere the weight makes the difference but lets say at 7 yards will there be any difference? At longer distances I'm sure the weight of .45 will take a toll and trajectory will suffer as well as range. But we are talking close range here.
Then again this is an automatic pistol so the discharge will have to be enough for reliable feeding maybe that's the difference FTF or jamming due to insufficient discharge.
230 grains is the standard in this caliber and has proved itself in past wars unlike the new lighter higher velocity loads.

 

[stinger 327]

I don't give a damn about penetration in a .45. Any weight penetrates enough for self defense use. If you're planning on shooting somebody through a windshield or wall then you're not defending yourself.

I shoot an aluminum framed compact and I've carried 165 grain Hydra-Shoks in it for a dozen years. The lighter weights create less recoil and help keep my sights on the target. I've used it on deer and it works very well, so I have no reason to change.

Then again there might be a situation where you might have to shoot through a barracade the person is hiding behind.

 

[stinger 327]

well, not really the OP's question, but for a good cross between HP and ball, i use 230gr flat point ball. if you think about it some, there are many situations where penetration is very useful. has saved my assets in the past.

gunnie

I wonder in past wars where the .45 ACP was used what kind of performance did they get?
Initially didn't they switch from .38 to .45 because the Moro warriors weren't being stopped quickly enough to kill a soldier then die afterwards. There was enough time for the Moro warrior to continue the fight resulting in more dead soldiers? Also the Moro warriors were pumped up with drugs that made them even stronger?

 

[CapnMac]

Well, really, the answer is what you do shoot best?
Shot placement has far more to do with the outcome than anything else.
Part of shot placement will be the reliability of the round in the weapon you own.

Suppose the overwhelming recommendation was XXXX? What would you do if they don't feed reliably in your weapon? Change weapons? Or, if that putative XXXX round makes you flinch every time it goes off?

Some expensive questions here. But, part of this is in spending the cash to be confident of the rounds you put downrange. There simply is no one round (despite advertising claims to the contrary) you can load up and said round will compensate for practice and experience and confidence.

 

[CoRoMo]

If you're planning on shooting somebody through a windshield or wall then you're not defending yourself.

LOL!! I guess you might be right. If you are PLANNING on shooting someone... you probably aren't defending yourself, rather, you're premeditating an assault.

However, if you are unfortunate enough to draw down on a threat to your life, there is a chance that the threat might come from someone on the other side of a windshield, door, or wall. Just sayin'.

 

[gunnie]

..."If you're planning on shooting somebody through a windshield or wall then you're not defending yourself."...

unless they initiated the hostilities, and then took cover/concealment.

gunnie

 

[gunnie]

..."I don't give a damn about penetration in a .45. Any weight penetrates enough for self defense use."...

tell this guy that...

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/backpacker_shoots_kills_grizzly_P0aKvLAZ2iw4smx9aOYyyJ

gunnie

 

[KodiakBeer]

However, if you are unfortunate enough to draw down on a threat to your life, there is a chance that the threat might come from someone on the other side of a windshield, door, or wall. Just sayin'.

If the individual is behind a windshield, door or wall, then he isn't a direct threat and I'm going to have a lot of explaining to do to a jury.

We could "what if" the situation to the point where only a sandbagged M2 position would be adequate, but in reality the vast number of self defense shootings are close range affairs where shot placement counts for more than shooting through walls. With my compact aluminum, I can put out follow up shots faster and more accurately with lighter slugs than with heavier slugs.
If I was carrying a full sized steel pistol, then I might re-examine that and go with 230 grain HP's (I'd still use HP's, in any weight). I've shot these lighter rounds enough to know that with my pistol, and my skills, I'm making the right choice. Your mileage may vary..

 

[KodiakBeer]

..."I don't give a damn about penetration in a .45. Any weight penetrates enough for self defense use."...

tell this guy that...

I'm not stupid enough to carry a .45acp for bear protection here in Kodiak.