Which 7mm Rm

[Saggins]

Looking at getting a 7mm RemMag. Primary use is 99% steel shooting (1000-2000yds) with offhand chance I hunt with it (I have plenty of other options). My top contenders in my price range ($1200 over the counter)are:

https://www.cabelas.com/product/sho...-range-centerfire-rifles/1791588.uts?slotId=4

https://www.browning.com/products/f...t-production/xbolt-max-long-range-hunter.html

I primarily want to shoot 180gr Hornady eld-m and my MINIMUM barrel length is 26" (gotta squeeze out those fps ), is the 1:9.25 twist sufficient in the 700? Is the Browning "heavy sporter" barrel heavy enough for consistent 10 shot strings (Or 20 if I took it to an F-class match)? I know the 700 has tons of aftermarket options for improvement but I wont rebarrel until I've shot out the throat first. Any other rifles that kinda fall in that range with good enough twist and heavy enough 26" barrel?

 

[Hookeye]

What are Senderps going for these days?
I let a .300 winmag pass by not that long ago.
If it was a 7 mag I'd have bought it.
If a reg stainless 700 sporter comes by (older one) I'll proly just stop there.
Had a BDL that did OK w 160s as hot as I could push em.
Didn't do anything to that rifle cept float the bbl.
I have no clue what the twist rate was.
But since the cartridge was for 175's and elk.........I dunno why heavies would be an issue (did they do something funky before or since?)
I dunno, you have me wondering now

 

[Saggins]

My local store has a Sendero in 300win for 1200 I think is what I saw. Their 7mm is listed as 1:9.25 as well. I cant honestly see how it's any better than the 700 Long Range, other than its barrel is stainless and fluted (but does that actually mean better?) I kind of liked the Bell an Carlson stock on the Long Range better even and saving $450 is nice.

I suppose on the Browning I could even step into a 28 Nosler but I'm not sure I want to (much more expensive brass, shorter barrel life)

 

[Varminterror]

For 1,000-2000yrd shooting, hard pass on the 7mm Rem Mag. The good news, of course, you’ll burn out the barrel fast enough to get your choice of better options in no time flat. Lots better options for F class as well - I did the 7RM because I had one, then eventually a 7wsm and 300wsm - couldn’t convince me to run that much powder and recoil for F class ever again.

Guys get mislead by lore about the 7RUM as a long range, canyon crossing elk killer, confuse that (intentionally or otherwise) with 7RM, then assume 7RM is good for long range games. But there’s no LR or ELR game where 7mm Rem Mag has ever done well, let alone is doing well today. ELR games are a relatively low volume game, because the expense is high, especially since barrel life is so short. If you want to be competitive in F class when you go, you’ll be replacing that barrel every 800rnds or so. You won’t be remotely competitive in ELR games - even the 30’s will spank a 7RM, and the 30’s don’t keep up with the 33’s, and the 375’s and 416’s all walk away with the trophies over the 33’s. Sure, maybe you just want to pleasure plink at 1000-2000 and bang into targets the size of car hoods for one in five shots on calm days - and that’s fine for you - but the barrel life is still going to suck, as is the down range performance. A 6.5 creed will get you to 1600 with half of the recoil and three times the barrel life. Far more opportunity to learn and develop long range precision skills without needing to rebuild your rifle every 3 months. Or your rotator cuff.

For a 2,000yrd rifle, you’re barking up the wrong trees with these heavy sporter/light varmint factory rifles. Guys shooting ELR are running 35-45lb rifles - with good reason.

 

[Saggins]

I have a 6.5CM already and it's nice shooting. BUT I've seen lots of articles, forum posts, videos, of 7wsm, 7rsaum even 7rm to 2k. I suppose I should have said it's for playing at 2k with the possibility of some F-class.

(I would consider a .338 lapua, but again reloading cost seems prohibitive unless anyone else knows better, and i wouldnt want to shoot it sans-brake for F-class)

 

[Nature Boy]

The straight .284 or the .284 Shehane is ruling the long range F Class line these days

Of course, that's taking you out of the "ready wear" department and putting you into the hands of a custom builder

 

[Saggins]

7 remmag just seemed to be a very nice balance of ballistics, range, recoil, and availability. I'd be willing to consider a "custom" cartridge when it's time to rebarrel tho.

Let's just say it's for playing at ELR then (1000-2000 yds) not competition. Which of those 2 guns from above then?

Or add to the list...
https://www.savagearms.com/firearms/centerfire/target/112-magnum-target
(Again my only concern there is cost to reload)

 

[Varminterror]

Playing at ELR, as I said in my first, hard pass on the 7mm Rem Mag, and especially hard pass on the magnum sporter rifles in your original post.

The Savage 112 338L is the only one on your list which makes any sense for regular 1000-2000yrd shooting. The other two are magnum hunting rifles, sporting rifles, not meant for ELR work, regardless of any marketing lie they might try to sell you.

Better get over your fear of reloading cost REAL quick if you want to do much shooting at 1000-2000. You're going to be burning powder and barrels, and launching lots of mass of copper. No way to make that cheap.

 

[bluetopper]

One option is a Thompson Encore then order you a barrel in whatever caliber, length, and thickness you want from Match Grade Machine.

 

[Saggins]

Honestly I had looked there first to have a 7mm Mashburn made but they wont do it (too high pressure they said). When I priced out a long 7 rem and added the cost of a new forend I'm still at almost $500 (and their only 7rem twist is 1:9. (I already own a factory pro hunter barrel in 300win)

 

[Varminterror]

One option is a Thompson Encore then order you a barrel in whatever caliber, length, and thickness you want from Match Grade Machine.

 

[Saggins]

Some rough calculations of reloading costs (figuring brass lasting 10 shots), has the 7rem at roughly $0.80 per shot and the .338 at about $1.55 (pretty much double). How ever I did NOT yet take into account barrel life. How much life can be expected from a 7rem and 338 lapua if fired without getting hot?

 

[Varminterror]

With Nosler brass in 7rm, I typically count on 8-10 firings, and I tally $1.01 shooting 180 Berger’s per round. 250 Berger’s from 338, I expect 15 firings on brass, have some out to 18-20, but usually replace too many of a batch by then. 15 firings, good for $1.50/loaded round. Still more expensive, but I’ll also tell you - you’ll hit more often with the 338 past 1600, and wasting rounds into the dirt on poor cartridge choice for the application is always waste.

Barrel life for 7RM is typically 700-900 before it opens significantly - more than acceptable for 2000yrd use, for sure. Alternatively, I’ve taken two 338L barrels past 2000rnds without significant loss, figure 2500 is about tops for 338. So rebarreling about 3x as often in the 7RM. Consider that this way: a $380 barrel with $300 smithing for thread and chamber, you’re spending about 75¢ to $1 per shot through the barrel, plus the $1 for ammo in 7rm - $1.75-2/shot fired. Alternatively, the 338L runs $1.50 for ammo, plus about 27¢/shot in barrel life - $1.77-1.85/shot fired... and of course you’ll spend extra load confirmation and barrel break in ammo since you’re throwing new barrels on 3 times as often... and as I mentioned, those wasted shots into the dirt trying to walk a sub-optimal round onto a 2,000yrd target just doesn’t make sense.

Guys do shoot 7RM’s long, but if you’re buying new meant for 1,000-2,000yrds, do yourself a favor and buy something more appropriate. The 7RM is one of my favorite cartridges as it was great in its day, but its day is over, and I wouldn’t recommend it for your purpose. Even a 300win mag is a better option, or 300 RUM, but 338L is far better.

 

[Saggins]

I appreciate your detailed input. I wasnt sure on 338lm barrel life. You definitely have me thinking hard about it.

 

[Varminterror]

I made the mistake of buying a 7mm for extreme long range shooting almost 20yrs ago. Learned this exact lesson the hard way. I was shooting a .30-06 and then a 7x57mauser for long range and wanted more distance. Bought a 7rm, burned out barrels, didn’t get enough range. For an inexpensive ELR rifle, the 338L is about as good as you can get, unless you’re willing to go 338 Edge/Pedge - and even with these, life gets markedly easier with a 375 or 416. The 33XC is getting a lot of attention of late, but I’m not sure I think it’s going to contend with the 375’s and 416’s either. Same with the 300 PRC - definitely a long Range capable round, but 2000 is a unique challenge, owned by the midbores.

 

[Saggins]

What about... starting with the 7rem and then rebarreling to 338 edge once its shot out? Will the rem 700 handle that? (Edit: I see cabelas gun library actually has a Rem 700 in 338 edge with the same stock that the 700 Long Range has)

I know that Savage 112 is supposed to be a great shooter. I have other another Savage target action and I absolutely love it.

 

[Varminterror]

The only downside in rebarreling to the 338 Edge later is the start up cost of the 7mm, then the fact it’s such a light action. It can be done, however.

The stock is one of the least suitable parts on the Rem 700 “Long Range” for long range shooting.

A big single shot action is nice for these brawlers, and while the Savage might not be anything to write home about in the field of custom actions, they’re accurate and barrel swaps are easy - and on the 338L’s they have an upgraded extractor. The big 112 338 would be a better option, in my experience.

 

[Nature Boy]

Yes. I would agree that a Savage would be better. Barrel swaps are just too dang easy.

 

[Saggins]

So I started this thread about 75% certain I was getting than remington in 7mm (the other 25% was the browning in 7mm) Now I'm still about split 60/40 (rem 700 in 7 / savage 338) didnt see that coming haha. Now here me out I'm definitely seeing some advantages with the 338. What all would be needed to convert that Rem 700 Long Range (in 7m rem mag) to 338 edge? (other than a barrel, that part I know)

 

[Nature Boy]

I friend has a stock Savage 338L and bangs an 18" steel gong at 1,000 yards out at his farm, and does so with boring regularity. The only lament he has is the cost per round and he reloads.

 

[Varminterror]

There’s really nothing particularly “long range friendly” about the Rem 700 Long Range Model. It’s the same trigger as everything else, which isn’t sufficient for 2,000yrd shooting, a B&C stock which is a sparse upgrade to their crap factory plastic, and a standard 700 action. They just stuck a “Long Range” label on the box - leaving off the “Hunter” part since today’s rifle buyer is a dirt puncher, not a hunter.

To convert to a 2,000yrd rifle, it’s going to need a new stock, trigger, and barrel. You’ll then need to pay your Smith to work the bolt stop, feed rails, and ejection port to serve the larger 338 Edge cartridge. I’d recommend having them install an upgraded extractor as well. Not every smith who hangs out a shingle is experienced in making a RUM/EDGE conversion.

You’ll also see better brass life from the 338L over 338Edge. The Ultramag brass isn’t as easy to find, and doesn’t hold up nearly as long. I usually figure 6-8 reloads on RUM brass, vs. 13-15 on 338Lapua brass. Let alone needing to be weight/capacity sorted and neck turned, vs. load & go for Lapua brass.

Comparatively, the Savage 112 338L comes ready to roar in their big single shot action with claw extractor, with a more suitable accutrigger, and a heavier, purpose designed profile laminate stock. Bed the action and shoot 2,000 on your first day. Barrel changes are also easier in the Savage.

The Savage will also keep intact its lifetime warranty on the entirety of the rifle, since you don’t have to gut and rebuild it to get where you need to go. Remington will wash their hands of your rifle once your smith starts tinkering inside to convert it to RUM. You’d be far better served to start with a RUM rifle or bare action.

All of that is likely moot, as it seems you’ve largely made up your mind to take the more difficult, more expensive path, and that’s your right to choose. Just trying to offer some advice to save you headache and expense in your pursuit.

 

[Saggins]

Well I made myself a spreadsheet on reloading costs of the 7 rem and 338 LM based on the components i would be likely to buy for each. Figuring 10 firings for each brass (possibly able to stretch this farther with annealing) and 1000 firings in the 7 rem barrel and 2500 in the 338LM (my sources are not exact but a general average I seemed to get from various forums, I know barrels and brass are individuals that will vary)

"box" of 20 x 7 RM = $25.88 ($15.88 without barrel costs, $24.40 without brass costs, and $14.40 without barrel or brass costs)
"box" of 20 x 338LM = $35.10 ($31.10 without barrel costs, $30.4 without brass costs, and $26.40 without barrel or brass costs)

So when I take barrel life into account the difference is not as nearly as bad, the 338LM is 35.6% more expensive to shoot.
If I disregard barrel life... the 338LM is 95.8% more expensive.
Now I wouldn't be shooting high volume by any means, my shooting range changes dramatically as the crops grow. A safe estimate would be 200 rounds in a year for this gun. Does the 338 still seem the most appealing? Don't say Ive made up my mind yet... I love that Savage more and more... Just trying to take my time and make a sound decision, I've rushed a gun purchase before... and its resale will be funding alot of this haha.

 

[Varminterror]

Figuring 10 firings for each brass (possibly able to stretch this farther with annealing)

You won’t. 10 firings on 7RM brass isn’t saved by annealing - it’s case head expansion and pocket loosening which kills it. I anneal my magnum brass every loading, that’s what turns 5-6 loading brass which splits at the neck or shoulder into 8-10 loading brass.

You also won’t be able to tolerate the neck tension inconsistencies at 2,000yrds if you don’t anneal.

 

[Nature Boy]

I’ve learned the lesson that trying to come up with a rifle that fills multiple niches is a rifle that fills none of them satisfactorily.

Wanting an ELR rifle that you can shoot in F Class and occasionally hunt with, over the counter for $1,200 bucks may be a recipe for disappointment

 

[LoonWulf]

As a unabashed 7RM fan boy, I personally feel VTs steering you right.
A friend and I went round, and round, on long range rigs a few months ago, and after cramming all the numbers, and options, a savage in .338 was the cheapest and most effective way to get where we wanted to be.

We ended up shying away from the project as a whole because neither of us really wanted to spend that kind of money for a kit that would get shot once every 6 months...and let's face it your not hitting crap at loooong range practicing that often.

But given an opportunity to shoot long more regularly (I only shoot past 1-200 bout once every 2-3months), the savage is what I'd go with to start.