Which 9mm fmj would you choose?

[19-3Ben]

This situation doesn't apply to me, but I thought about it and I am curious what you guys would say.

Here's the scenario:

You carry a 9mm for CCW and you are only allowed to use non-expanding and non-prefragmented, FMJ. Straight jacketed lead. that's it.

What weight would you carry if you were limited to 9mm FMJ?
115gr? 125gr? 147?


My Answer:
For me, I'd probably go for the 115. All have the same diameter profile, and any of them are going to penetrate deeply enough so the penetration of the 147 isn't a concern for me, and I figure at least the 115 would hit with the most energy because of velocity. Also because it has a lower SD, I figure perhaps it might yaw and penetrate slightly less than the heavier rounds (not sure about that).

 

[chupacabrah]

hmmm. I've always assumed heavier is better. but for your FMJ scenario, i may be tempted to say 115 gr also, for the same reasons you mentioned. assuming once it hits its target, it will slow the fastest due to its lighter weight, and maybe penetrate less. I dont know if that is actually the case though.

I shoot 115gr for target, and it doesn't really stop....through milk jug, car hood, radiator, 2 trees (about 5-6" diameter). I haven't compared to heavier weight bullets though.

 

[Gun Slinger]

If absolutely constrained to an non-expanding FMJ design, and I couldn't sneak by with one of Federal's EFMJ loads, I would acquire an acceptable quantity of the Federal 147 gr. FMJ Flat Point load (AE9FP). It buzzes along at 1000 f.p.s. and offers ~325 f.p.e.

I prefer heavy for caliber bullets regardless of caliber employed and the flat point (or meplat) of the AE9FP load might offer just a little more "terminal effect" at the receiving end.

I fully realize that the small meplat is not a particularly spectacular improvement and probably offers at best a nominal improvement, if at all, but when constrained to the use of FMJ(hardball), which in any handgun caliber is an abysmal performer, one would do well to maximize what very little he can in terms of terminal effectiveness even if that "improvement" appears to be insignificant.

Second choice would be a 124 FMJ of standard configuration, not that I'd be thrilled with that either.

Overpenetration would be the least of my concerns though, since these rounds (115, 124 and 147) typically penetrate 27-32 inches of calibrated ballistic gelatin depending on which weight you are considering, and under such constraints I'd be more concerned with shot placement and make certain to establish adequate downrange clearance (if/when possible) to compensate for the overpenetrative qualities of the ammunition.

 

[Snowdog]

Presuming it had to be the traditional tapered-nose hardball profile and not being a truncated FMJ possessing a meplat, I would certainly choose a 115gr FMJ as well.

 

[Mad Magyar]

I don't have much choice in the matter since I stockpiled quite a bit of the 115gr...

the 115 would hit with the most energy because of velocity.

Not too sure if the differences outweigh your accuracy to the BG...

 

[usp9]

I like the Winchester 124 gr. NATO rounds. I get very good accuracy and great reliability from them.
http://www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/catalog/handgundetail.aspx?symbol=RA9124N&cart=OW1tIE5hdG8=

 

[Steve C]

Probably doesn't make a nickels worth of difference between bullet weight or shape when using solids. As to their effectiveness it will be bullet placement that does the job so I'd get the one that shoots the best accuracy and allows for the quickest follow up shots in the gun you will be using.

 

[SeanSw]

FMJ being what it is, it shouldn't matter much. I would go for the heaviest and fasted load commercially available. FMJ only has a few benefits so you might as well capitalize on them.

My Baby Eagle loves 124gr NATO. It's almost like they were built for eachother

 

[Jason_G]

Pick the bigger bullet.

Jason

 

[Northalius]

Nevermind, made mistake.

 

[W.E.G.]

Probably doesn't make a nickels worth of difference between bullet weight or shape when using solids. As to their effectiveness it will be bullet placement that does the job so I'd get the one that shoots the best accuracy and allows for the quickest follow up shots in the gun you will be using.

+1

 

[searcher451]

The decision might well be made by the choice of gun you carry ... and the likes and dislikes of that particular gun. I have a stock of 9mm Walthers that happily eat up Winchester white box 115-grain FMJ, with never a hiccup and nary an issue. post-war P38, P1, P4, P5 -- it doesn't matter: I'm confident that every time I load a magazine with the stuff, the guns will perform as advertised, each and every time. It's doggone difficult to argue with a 100% rate like that.

 

[Jason_G]

147 grain

I think everyone is assuming that you are going to have a through and through wound from either round, or that the BG isn't going to be behind cover. Maybe that'll be the case, maybe not.
If you're going to limit the discussion to only FMJ, you may as well shoot the best FMJ you can.
The heavier bullet is going to penetrate better than the lighter ones. Maybe not a whole lot better, but better nonetheless.

Jason

 

[19-3Ben]

Hrm...interesting points. thanks guys.

Now, time to go to bed...next to my M&P loaded with gold dots.

 

[Hook686]

I'd pick the biggest. I actually practice with Rainier 147 grain PFN.

 

[themic]

How about reloads with Ranier copper plated bullets? These are essnetially soft lead bullets with a copper plating - they look like FMJ and qualify as FMJ for most indoor ranges, but are much softer.

Here's a link example:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=753719&t=11082005

 

[3 gun]

The low end gel tests have 115fmj doing 21 inches, way to much for me to use them for SD/HD. I'd go with the 147 loads. The lower MV and flat nose design of the heavy weight 9mm should increase the wound tract and decrease the total penetration. No really good answers to this question. Can you tell us where this situation does apply? I'd like to know where to avoid.

 

[Irfan]

So if we have let's say Sellier & Bellot 124gr. and 115 gr. 9mm FMJ rounds which one will penetrate more?

 

[19-3Ben]

Can you tell us where this situation does apply? I'd like to know where to avoid.

Only in the twisted world of my mind. And if I could avoid my own mind, I probably would!!!.........
It's more of an academic discussion. Kind of like voting for politicians. It's a matter of choosing which of two options sucks less, even though they are both terrible choices.
I started this thread only for academic purposes. Not because I was seeking advice or anything.

 

[GRIZ22]

I don't think there would be much difference between the 115, 124, 125or 147. I'd carry what feeds best and is most accurate in my gun.

 

[MCgunner]

I'd carry my .45 and leave the 9 at home. 9 is great with modern ammo.

 

[Gun Slinger]

Originally posted by Irfan:
So if we have let's say Sellier & Bellot 124gr. and 115 gr. 9mm FMJ rounds which one will penetrate more?

Irfan,

Both (the 115 gr. and 124 gr.) will penetrate approximately 28-32 inches of calibrated ordnance gelatin depending on several factors. Other than an estimated range of penetration depth, it is not possible to give an exact penetration measurement because there are subtle variables like the bullet's profile/shape, exact velocity at impact and what that bullet might (or might not) strike during it's travel through a human body and influence the depth of penetration of the bullet. This is the range of penetration for standard pressure 9mm FMJ in the 115gr., 124gr. and 147gr. weights.

Generally, the heavier bullets tend to penetrate deeper than the lighter ones, but when you consider the dimensions of the 'average' human torso, the numbers almost guarantee a "through-and-through" penetration from almost any angle of attack.

Even more penetration occurs when pressures are raised into the +P and +P+ realm. My Department's Lab tested the Federal 9mm 124 gr. FMJ-SWC +P+ (it has a "flat point" or "meplat" just like the Federal 147 gr. FMJFP that I refer to in my post above) a few years ago in calibrated ordnance gelatin and it consistently penetrated between 34-36 inches of gelatin in those evaluations. We were seeking a "high penetrtaion" load for limited SWAT/barricade applications and eventually selected that load for it's performance in that regard.

Regards,

 

[lions]

Would the lighter faster round have a better chance of fragmenting if it hits a bone? Not that I would rely on that happening but if said round has a better chance of fragmenting then why not give it a chance. Sounds like most agree on a through and through regardless and they will all leave the same size hole so if one round will more readily fragment why not "give it a shot"?

 

[Lonestar49]

When push comes to shove

...

Weight is your ally, as it "carries its own inertia" for more impact/punch and penetration vs a slight reduction in velocity vs a lighter weighted bullet with a slight increase in velocity..

*I'd look for 147gr FMJ bullets with flat heads, if made..

*speaking for a HD/SD situation that is at 25ft or less..


Ls

 

[jmr40]

The military uses 124 grain FMJ at around 1150-1200fps. I'm no expert but think they may have put a little thought into the best FMJ load since that is what they use.