which AK to get??

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lvcat2004

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I have a bone stock Romanian WASR-10, but I wanted to get a new one to modify with rails and such.

I was thinking about Saiga conversion but I find it too cumbersome, so the other option is to buy an already converted one such as this:
aksaiga.jpg

but this still has a saiga handguard, and I'm assuming that it will limit my options of changing handguards/rails and such.

Othe option would be Bulgarian SSR-85 which seems to be better made than WASR, and has k-var stocks and control parts, as well as a chrome line barrel like Saiga.
akssr.jpg



I'm leaning toward SSR, and they cost the same ($550). Any pros/cons, recommendations??
 
You may as well get what you want for the money. Looking over at Centerfire they have both the Saiga and Bulgarian and they are the same price: $549.00.

If the Saiga was cheaper I would have suggest buying replacement fore grip. Since both are the same price get the one you want without modifying.

Good luck. :cool:
 
If you want to add an optic and a light, you only really need one rail....the Ultimak gas tube is an excellent, low profile way to do this, and you get to keep the original handguard.

It's lightweight, and cuts bulk to a minimum.

My Arsenal Inc. SLR-106FR with Ultimak rail, Aimpoint T-1, Surefire G2 with Vltor ring mount, and Blackjack SWIFT safety.

P1000373.jpg

P1000375.jpg

P1000382.jpg



Of the two that you listed, I'd go with the SSR-85.
 
The SSR-85 has had people making some consistent complaints, such as the parts kits being rusted and ugly, and on shaky construction. For example, I've heard of two instances where the muzzle break either wobbled or completely flew off the barrel on the 85's.

The Saiga is made of brand-new out-of-box parts, and nobody has had a complaint other than that it doesnt come with a bullet guide - but instead a welded feed ramp (you can get a bullet guide for ten bucks and fix that if you don't like it, though). As for the foregrip and handguards, you can replace them with whatever you want quite easily. Just buy a handguard retainer and swapping between forends becomes very easy.

The only problem with the converted Saiga is that - after buying a converted one - you'll be likely to spend another 150-300 bucks to turn it into what you want, going by what you said :eek:. Thats not a problem with me, since I decided to stop the penny-pinching and just get what I want, but if you are trying to save money/want the SSR, then give it a very thorough inspection and such so you don't watch on in horror when your muzzle break flies off and down range. Or, learn to do the conversion and save about 150 bucks that you can spend on the extra parts.
 
My advice is to simply buy a bone-stock Saiga and convert it into what YOU want. You will save a lot of money in the long run.
 
Deer Hunter said:
My advice is to simply buy a bone-stock Saiga and convert it into what YOU want. You will save a lot of money in the long run.
+1 on that.

Both of your choices are wastes of money, imho.

The SSR-85 is a Bulgarian WASR ( made from Arsenals rejects ) and the Saiga is converted as cheaply as possible.

You can do a damn sight better job for the same money, starting with a factory saiga. It's not difficult at all.

Dinzag offers a bolt-on lower handguard retainer, which will allow you to use any standard Kalashnikov furniture on your Saiga.

Clicks
 
thanks for the input fellas. I don't have any major power tools and such as press or laithe, but is it that easy?? I understand that you have to replace foreign parts with US made parts such as trigger group, pistol grip and such....

As long as there are bolt-on parts I'll try it myself.

IF there is a good sight with pics that I can follow for this conversion LMK....I've looked at saiga-12.com but information seems to be scattered everywhere and not in one easy to follow place.
 
Ivcat,

I did mine while in high school with a hammer, pair of plyers, and a dremel. It's not a hard thing to do.
 
the only thing it requires is the ability to use hand tools with some amount of precision. If you don't feel comfortable with drilling into the gun (like me), then do some research and maybe find someone who can do it for you, but expect a waiting list ahead of you.
 
but its also not that cheap if you are doing the full conversion. at the moment, u will pay $300-330 for the saiga, $100 for the Kvar furniture (200-250 if u want a folder), 30 for the trigger, 80 for the dinzag bolt on lower handguard retainer, 30 for the upper gas tube with handguard retainer, 30 for the bullet guide, 30 dollars to crown/thread the barrel (a loose figure, in reality u need to own the tools >$30 or do the renting process at dinzag or know someone that will do it and most likely charge >$30), $10-20 for the muzzle break, another $10 if you want a standard AK trigger guard, and lastly 30 for the requisite 2 high cap magazines that you'll want to replace.

So the cheapest you could get a fully converted ak-103 style saiga with a slant break would be $610 (assuming you know someone that will thread and crown for free and assuming you reuse your trigger guard :p). $600 for everything else but no muzzle break or threading. you could spend up to $860 doing a full conversion on a folder or $710 on a fixed stock with kvar furniture and, say, $60 towards solving the matter of threading.

the saiga deal in the OP isnt that great considering if you want the standard AK furniture, you end up paying 550 for that gun + 60 kvar hand guard furniture + 80 dinzag bolt on + 30 gas tube with retainer = $720 for what u could have had for $600+labor and you still wouldnt have the threading or muzzlebreak (the "full conversion") after all that $$$.

if all you wanted was a basic converted saiga then u could do it for 300 (probably a good deal at the moment) + 60 (furniture) + 30 (trigger) + 30 (bullet guide) = $420 and u'd reuse your saiga trigger guard. you could maybe knock it down to $390 if u use the cheapest furniture you can find.

with the prices as they are, I'd do it myself for a basic Saiga. by my math, $550 is over priced by ~30% over a basic $390-$420 conversion. On the other hand, for a full conversion with a muzzlebreak, I'd just buy a nice finished $700-800 dollar rifle, because the markup drops to 12% (from spending $700 + labor doing it yourself) and all the labor that would have gone into selecting parts and prepping your receiver is probably worth $100, and you may not really be paying anything for labor on a complete full conversion package if you were going to end up spending $100 on tools for rivets, threading, or dremel, or paying a gunsmith for any part of the tasks on your own conversion.

If you can easily thread the barrel and place rivets, then a do it yourself full conversion makes sense, because in a decent workshop a lot of this can be done cheap. if u punch out the front sight block u can use cheaper hand guard retainers too.

maybe theres a cheaper route than using dinzag, tapco, and kvar that im not taking into account, and as far as I know Saigas are pretty much all $330 or more out the door now. I didn't even factor in shipping and potential transfer fees for the gun and parts. the prices im quoting may seem high, but it may represent a realistic ballpark.

If i wanted a classic looking configuration, I'd rather pay a little less and get a vector, lancaster, romy g-code, wasr-10/63, or century yugo M70. I'd do a basic conversion with tapco stuff for the cheapest possible high-quality AK action or maybe buy an unconverted saiga. I wouldn't bother putting the time and money into doing a full conversion myself because by the end i could have paid the same amount or maybe 10% more and invested none of my own labor or time. but its really not that big of a project if you have the experience and tools, and by all means, if it sounds fun, and you dont mind spending >$600, then have at the full do-it-yourself AK-103 conversion. If you ignore the matter of threading and having a muzzle break, and own a dremel, its pretty simple and probably the best AK you can get at the $600 price point.

sorry, i know this is way more than u asked for.
 
^^ that was good info, I appreciate it. Let me think this over a bit more....

so to use standard AK furniture, I need to get a Dinzag bolt on handguard retainer AND a new gas tube with retainer also??
 
lvcat2004 said:
so to use standard AK furniture, I need to get a Dinzag bolt on handguard retainer AND a new gas tube with retainer also??

i think so. unless u can press off the front sight block and use a normal retainer (that doesnt cost $80). and im pretty sure the upper gas tube has no retainer. i could be wrong, i dont own a saiga, ive just been lurking these forums and thats my understanding. maybe someone will chime in.

im pretty sure if u want standard ak furniture, ur looking at saiga 330 + furniture 60-100 + trigger 30 + bullet guide 30 + lower retainer 80 + gas tube 30 + shipping/tax/transfer fee 30 = $590-630 total.

It still seems like a good deal, but its only a little ahead of the market. Its really about the same price as something like this:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=233
The Saiga is still a good choice over the vector knowing that you are getting an all new top quality Russian AK at that price. I'm no expert, and I know the Vector is good, but I believe the Saiga is better. Good luck!

DeerHunter said:
What's so wrong with the Saiga's handguards?
If you can see it this way, you will save money. For me, an unconverted Saiga would be an inevitable project. It just wouldn't look finished or authentic in my eyes. Even though it is perfectly authentic for what it is.
 
I understand the idea of converting a saiga, NWN. I have a converted saiga .223 sitting in my safe right now. I find the handguards more pleasing to the eye than the normal AK handguards.

But I don't believe they would offer any disadvantage to an average AK handguard either.
 
What's so wrong with the Saiga's handguards?

I'm probably going to use it for tactical rifle class, and I want to put rails and such....want to stand out among all the AR's...I have a stock Romanian AK with wood furniture, I just want to trick this one out and I think there are many more handrail options for the AK than the Saiga.
 
northwestneighbor said:
im pretty sure if u want standard ak furniture, ur looking at saiga 330 + furniture 60-100 + trigger 30 + bullet guide 30 + lower retainer 80 + gas tube 30 + shipping/tax/transfer fee 30 = $590-630 total.
The difference is knowing that the conversion was done with quality parts and attention to detail.
 
I gotta tell you, the stock Saiga handguard feels a lot better to me than the 'authentic' stuff like on the Arsenals, etc. I'm keeping mine just like on the top pic.

If you have basic stuff like a drill, allen wrenches and a Dremel with cutoff wheels/grinders, the job is really not that hard. I found it to be extremely fun actually, and I can say I *built* it. Sortof.

Just please don't go hamfisting the Dinzag bullet guide kit. Be slow, be gentle. Only takes 10 minutes and is a no brainer.

BTW type in 'saiga conversion' on YouTube. Step by step. I ended up following the still-frame instruction site though, can't remember the link.
 
^^yeah, I've seen both of those. Saiga-12 forum pointed me in that direction. The only issue with Saiga-12 forum is that I didn't find a good sticky with nice instructions like cross-conn. Information is in bits and pieces scattered and hard to put together.

One of my questions was the bullet guide...my WASR doesn't have one, and it works flawlessly...and the guy on youtube completely omits it as well....

I guess I can try the conversion without it and see how the bullet chambers to see if I really need the guide or not.

Want it to stand out eh? Why bother making it all tactical then?

because I'm taking a "TACTICAL" rifle class as I said already. Some of it involves low light structure entry and I need rails to mount lights and such. Although it's in California, so I'd say I would probably stand out with any AK clone souped up or not, among AR's and some M1A's...
 
Do all Saigas have the Warning sign on the receiver? Warning: read manual and so on?? I held one Saiga and the warning sign on an AK is just a thing I would never get over.
Get a SSR-85.
 
H2O Man, the Vltor ring will work with both the 6P/G2 size, or the E2 size body. You keep tightening down until you're solid.

To the OP....what's your price range for an AK?
 
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