I have a Garand, but have always wanted a true blue "battle rifle", you know, serious caliber and hi-cap detachable magazines. I have always wanted a M1A and thought that nothing else could compare, however the price is prohibitive. I have researched the FAL and the HK-91 (G3) and they have always been highly priced. I have recently come across a HK-91 clone in the PTR-91 and am really excited about this one. Unless someone can convince me otherwise I think I can pull this one off. If there are other alternatives please chime in, I'm not interested in "building" a rifle, box stock will do fine for me. For those that have selected other, please quantify your suggestion, thanks.
Which Battle Rifle?
- Thread starter amprecon
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Luchtaine
Member
The cheapest of the bunch is the ptr 91 least MSRP wise so since cost is an issue to you I would go with that first plus the aluminum mags for them are disposably cheap.
http://www.taclatch.com. someone gave me this link to make the ergonomics on mag changes more condusive to one handed function.
I only have experiance with the M1a personally and I like mine a lot, I still want the other two though. but buying all three is going to be really cost prohibitive I would guess.
http://www.taclatch.com. someone gave me this link to make the ergonomics on mag changes more condusive to one handed function.
I only have experiance with the M1a personally and I like mine a lot, I still want the other two though. but buying all three is going to be really cost prohibitive I would guess.
itgoesboom
member
I love the HK design, it has to be one of my favorites.
But it does have some weaknesses.
The biggest one is that you can't properly sling it for support. The sling stud is on the triple frame (sight tower) mounted on the barrel, and if you sling up, you will change the POI.
I don't know if the FAL has that issue, but I know the M1A doesn't.
I have somewhat gotten around this by having an HK light bipod mounted on my CETME, but that adds a lot of weight.
I personally though would still go with the JLD PTR-91.
In fact, I really want a PTR-91KP, B&T low mount with an Aimpoint on it, and a paddle mag release.
That would be ideal for me.
I.G.B.
But it does have some weaknesses.
The biggest one is that you can't properly sling it for support. The sling stud is on the triple frame (sight tower) mounted on the barrel, and if you sling up, you will change the POI.
I don't know if the FAL has that issue, but I know the M1A doesn't.
I have somewhat gotten around this by having an HK light bipod mounted on my CETME, but that adds a lot of weight.
I personally though would still go with the JLD PTR-91.
In fact, I really want a PTR-91KP, B&T low mount with an Aimpoint on it, and a paddle mag release.
That would be ideal for me.
I.G.B.
mustanger98
Member
The Garand is a 'true blue "battle rifle"'. .30-06 is a "serious caliber". Seriously, the difference between the M1 Garand and the M14/M1A is only the difference between a Clydesdale and a Thoroughbred race horse. If you like one, you'll like the other and vice versa.
ClarkEMyers
Member
Consider a BM58 pattern
If you like the Garand staying close may be better in the long run. On the other hand I'd encourage you to buy something you want if you can afford it - it can be fun to try something even if you end up selling it again - usually if you buy right and sell slowly the cost of ownership doesn't exceed the fun factor. Distress sales always excepted.
If you like the Garand staying close may be better in the long run. On the other hand I'd encourage you to buy something you want if you can afford it - it can be fun to try something even if you end up selling it again - usually if you buy right and sell slowly the cost of ownership doesn't exceed the fun factor. Distress sales always excepted.
Father Knows Best
Member
I own a couple of Garands, a DSA SA58 and a PTR-91. They're all fine rifles. Based on your statements above, I would strongly encourage you to get the PTR-91. They are exceedingly reliable and accurate rifles and are great values at a street price of around $700. In addition, as others have pointed out, the mags are "disposable cheap." You can buy mags for as little as a buck each. As a result, I have far more mags for my PTR-91 than I have for any of my other rifles.
Just to be balanced, though, here are the disadvantages of the PTR-91 (and any G3 clone):
1. no last-shot bolt hold open
2. some find the ergonomics to be awkward (safety position/reach, charging handle location, etc.). The mag release is really awful. The G3 had an AK-style "paddle" mag release that worked well, but part of the ATF-mandated changes in the semi-auto variants like the HK 91 and PTR-91 was elimination of the paddle mag release and replacement with a push button on the right side of the receiver. As a result, changing mags is a two handed operation unless you replace the stock release (see below)
3. typically VERY BAD triggers out of the box -- very gritty and heavy
4. chew up brass real bad thanks to the fluted chamber and, ahem, "assertive" ejection (so forget reloading it)
5. accessories are a little harder to find and more expensive than those for the FAL types rifles (and way more expensive than AR or AK accessories)
Some of those "faults" are correctable. Bill Springfield will do a great trigger job on your PTR-91 for $35, and all you need to send him is the trigger pack (which you can remove in about 10 seconds by field stripping the rifle). There are a number of places that will install G3-type paddle mag releases, but they're expensive. Alternatively, you can install a Tac-Latch, which is almost identical to the original G3 paddle mag release except it moves sideways (instead of fore-and-aft) and you can install it yourself for about $35. Also, accessories for the PTR-91 are becoming more common and more available every day thanks to the incredible popularity of the rifle.
Just to be balanced, though, here are the disadvantages of the PTR-91 (and any G3 clone):
1. no last-shot bolt hold open
2. some find the ergonomics to be awkward (safety position/reach, charging handle location, etc.). The mag release is really awful. The G3 had an AK-style "paddle" mag release that worked well, but part of the ATF-mandated changes in the semi-auto variants like the HK 91 and PTR-91 was elimination of the paddle mag release and replacement with a push button on the right side of the receiver. As a result, changing mags is a two handed operation unless you replace the stock release (see below)
3. typically VERY BAD triggers out of the box -- very gritty and heavy
4. chew up brass real bad thanks to the fluted chamber and, ahem, "assertive" ejection (so forget reloading it)
5. accessories are a little harder to find and more expensive than those for the FAL types rifles (and way more expensive than AR or AK accessories)
Some of those "faults" are correctable. Bill Springfield will do a great trigger job on your PTR-91 for $35, and all you need to send him is the trigger pack (which you can remove in about 10 seconds by field stripping the rifle). There are a number of places that will install G3-type paddle mag releases, but they're expensive. Alternatively, you can install a Tac-Latch, which is almost identical to the original G3 paddle mag release except it moves sideways (instead of fore-and-aft) and you can install it yourself for about $35. Also, accessories for the PTR-91 are becoming more common and more available every day thanks to the incredible popularity of the rifle.
KriegHund
Member
All are excellent rifles, but the G3 has a lot of good history behind it. So does the FAL. i would compare and contrast the two. Weight, accuracy, price, availibility of mags, accesorys, etc etc.
good luck
good luck
The list that you have are very good. However, I prefer bolt action. For aim fire, I don't think the rate of fire is that much different than that of a semi-auto. They are also easy to load/top off, and are rugged.
However, for the list that you have, I prefer M1A the best, especially with shorter barrel (not the 16" SOCOM style.) I don't have G3, or FAL, so I can't comment on them.
-Pat
However, for the list that you have, I prefer M1A the best, especially with shorter barrel (not the 16" SOCOM style.) I don't have G3, or FAL, so I can't comment on them.
-Pat
usp_fan
Member
If you want the PTR-91 I won't try to convince you the FAL is better. However, If you are ever up in NW ohio, I'll let you shoot mine if you let me shoot yours.
--usp_fan
--usp_fan
idakfan
Member
PTR-91 vs DSA STG58 cost
Is the PTR-91 really cheaper than the DSA STG58? From what I can see the STG58 is priced $99 more on DSAs website, but any buyer can find a FFL who will go down or mabye sell it for the transfer of around $800 and a $20 FFL fee. From what I've heard the new STG58s are shipping with the synthetic handguard as well.
The PTR-91 sells at $699-$799 right? But that's without the fat plastic handguard for heat reduction. So we're basically talking the same price, give or take $50.
I personally wouldn't choose on cost alone.
All I can input is that I owned a FAL before and loved the ergonomics. Simply a gorgeous rifle as well, and a FAL from DSA will give you one of the most reliable FALs on the market (if not the most reliable).
I'm going to be purchasing a DSA STG58 within the next month or two, I'll post pics.
http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=STG58STD&storeid=1&image=AusFALR.gif
Is the PTR-91 really cheaper than the DSA STG58? From what I can see the STG58 is priced $99 more on DSAs website, but any buyer can find a FFL who will go down or mabye sell it for the transfer of around $800 and a $20 FFL fee. From what I've heard the new STG58s are shipping with the synthetic handguard as well.
The PTR-91 sells at $699-$799 right? But that's without the fat plastic handguard for heat reduction. So we're basically talking the same price, give or take $50.
I personally wouldn't choose on cost alone.
All I can input is that I owned a FAL before and loved the ergonomics. Simply a gorgeous rifle as well, and a FAL from DSA will give you one of the most reliable FALs on the market (if not the most reliable).
I'm going to be purchasing a DSA STG58 within the next month or two, I'll post pics.
http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=STG58STD&storeid=1&image=AusFALR.gif
Cherokee
Member
I trained with the M-14, used the M-14. I own an M1A. Have no desire for any other battle rifle. I have AR's to play with, M1A for serious work. Just my experience.
3 gun
Member
Having a Garand covers owning a serious battle rifle very well. Just me, but I wouldn't feel the need to "up grade" unless I could out shoot the Garand and had the other bases covered, good safe, good handgun, shotgun and a reserve of ammo for each.
Sam
Member
3 gun was correct. The M1 will do quite nicely.
If you hasd to have one of the three others, doubts pop up.
Springfield M1A- Not happy with their quality.
DSA FAL- Not sure about theirs either
HK Clone- won't own a delayed blowback. Don't give me no crap about roller locking, it's a delayed blowback else they wouldn't need the flutes.
If I could get one that I knew ran, Id take the M1A first, the FAL second and if I got stuck with an HK clone, I throw it away and run like hell.
Sam
If you hasd to have one of the three others, doubts pop up.
Springfield M1A- Not happy with their quality.
DSA FAL- Not sure about theirs either
HK Clone- won't own a delayed blowback. Don't give me no crap about roller locking, it's a delayed blowback else they wouldn't need the flutes.
If I could get one that I knew ran, Id take the M1A first, the FAL second and if I got stuck with an HK clone, I throw it away and run like hell.
Sam
mustanger98
Member
My Granddaddy's a US Army vet of WW2 Pacific Theater. Tell you what he said: "there's nothing obsolete about the M1 Garand."
iamkris
Member
I've posted my comparisons before http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=156983&highlight=fal so I'll reference you to this thread for instance. A search on this topic will reveal lots of other data as well.
Of your choices I'd take the M1A as a long range sniping platform, the FAL as a battle rifle and the PTR last (I'd still like to own one again, though). I can't get over the negatives of the PTR, including (for me) lousy ergonomics, no last shot bolt hold open, less convenient field stripping vs. FAL.
Agree with the post above that a quality StG from DSA is essentially same price as the StG.
Of your choices I'd take the M1A as a long range sniping platform, the FAL as a battle rifle and the PTR last (I'd still like to own one again, though). I can't get over the negatives of the PTR, including (for me) lousy ergonomics, no last shot bolt hold open, less convenient field stripping vs. FAL.
Agree with the post above that a quality StG from DSA is essentially same price as the StG.
JeepDriver
Member
PTR-91
The mags are cheap, $5 from Cope's. The gun is reliable, accurate (combat accurate) and it is the best semi auto 308 you'll find under $1000
I prefer my 91K to my M1A.
The mags are cheap, $5 from Cope's. The gun is reliable, accurate (combat accurate) and it is the best semi auto 308 you'll find under $1000
I prefer my 91K to my M1A.
ReadyontheRight
Member
M1 Garand. Unless you can afford to buy a lot of them and keep them loaded, the detachable magazine isn't that great of a benefit over the 8-round clip.
Also easier to stay closer to the ground.
Also easier to stay closer to the ground.
mustanger98
Member
Yup. One of my 2nd cousins is a former US Marine and Vietnam Vet. He told me he had the M-14 and it was and still is a superb weapon.
Regarding PTR-91:
Unless you get a second M1 Garand and rebarrel to .308/7.62mm. Has anybody ever seen a combat-ready Garand that wasn't match capable?
I'd thought of that having read from several guys who buy 'em and stack 'em up. I've also heard from at least one vet who trained with the M-14 and said he wouldn't want to have to do the en bloc shuffle under fire when he'd trained doing M-14 mag changes. But that same guy, one of my online buddies on another board, said the 20rd mag does make prone a little harder with the 14.
varoadking
Member
I take exception to your observations, and I also take it that you don't own a Garand or an M1A...
DougW
Member
I own a M1, L1A1 (inch pattern FAL), had used to have a CETME. Have fired an M1A. I settled on the L1A1 for a MBR due to the fact that there are a lot of acessories for it, and it can be configured in a lot of different ways. I really, really love shooting the M1, and the M1A and CETME for that matter. Determining which one is the "best" is like trying to descide if the .45 is as good an a 9mm. (dang, I can't believe I said THAT! 
) I would feel very well armed with any of the 4 (just don't let my AR know I said that).
) I would feel very well armed with any of the 4 (just don't let my AR know I said that).modifiedbrowning
Member
I'll say FAL, because I have one and have not shot the others. Checkout www.ohiorapidfire.com.
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