Which caliber for a bolt-rifle

[chaim]

OK, I'm narrowing down which bolt rifle I want. Now I need to start thinking about caliber.

I am not a hunter and I probably never will be (to be able to eat meat it must have been killed in a very specific manner for it to be kosher and shooting it doesn't qualify and I don't see myself hunting just for sport).

I am not very experienced with shooting rifles so at first it will be at close distances. I do have a .22lr bolt-rifle so this won't be my only practice. However, cost is a little bit of an issue so I can get more real practice.

Eventually, I'd like to get into some pretty long distance target shooting and since I'll soon be a poor graduate student I'd like to get a rifle and caliber to start with that can handle that so I don't need to try to buy something while my funds are extremely limited (unless I really want something additional, but it needs to be an option, not a necessity).

I want a caliber that can handle some fairly long ranges (500-700yds) with readily available ammo and not specially made ammo or homebrews. Thus it can't be too light (no .223s). Since I don't hunt, a fairly flat tradjectory is important for long range accuracy (when I finally get there) but the amount of stopping power left isn't that much of an issue (though again, I don't really want a .223 for this). I do want something heavier since I am a beginner at this kind of shooting, it seems that would take some of the guesswork out of long range shooting.

Mainly I'm considering:
-22-250 (probably too light, though more powerful than .223)
-the new .223WSSM (though availability will probably be a problem)
-.243
-.308
-.270
-7mm (not sure which one, but one of the more garden variety 7mms)
-7mm Remington Magnum
-30-06

I want:
-reasonable ammo cost ($10-12/box seems ok).
-easy availability (since I don't know for sure where I'll be for grad school it needs to be something with easy availability even if I end up in an area with only one or two stores where I can buy ammo).
-relatively light recoil (I need to be able to practice enough to get good, my definition of "relatively light" is no more than my Win 94 in 30-30 or a Mossberg 500 with reduced recoil personal defense 12ga loads).
-relatively flat tradjectory or powerful enough for fairly reasonable long range accuracy.

I am leaning towards:
-.270; flat tradjectory, available everywhere, similiar power to the 30-06
-.308; similar ballistics to 30-06 in a shorter action, easy to find, relatively cheap factory ammo and cheap surplus stuff is out there
-.243; Factory ammo seems a tad less than either of the above, it has a good reputation, it should be relatively mild recoiling and have enough range for what I want. It is easy to find around here (though I don't know if that is a regional thing)

Of course, all that I'm considering are strong options and none have been ruled out (among those) or ruled definately in yet (though my leanings are for the above).

Which caliber would be most appropriate for my needs and wants?

 

[Dave R]

.308 would be. Best value in factory-produced centerfire ammo. Good suplus available to stretch your dollar. I'm partial to Partugese (FNM headstamp). Was once the frequent champ in long-distance competitions.

 

[Shmackey]

Sounds like .308 nails everything you specified.

If you didn't have the .22lr, I'd think about something with less kick, for teaching others or for when you just want less kick. But since you do, .308 makes sense--certainly more than the .30-06, which is more expensive but has similar ballistics until you get to the heavy stuff or handload, which you're not.

For your purposes, the only other one that stands out would be the 7mm Rem Mag--BOOM--but I think .308 will do everything you want it to.

 

[BusMaster007]

http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/700VS.HTM

.308 Win.

http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/700vls.htm

6mm Rem.

 

[cratz2]

Through I'm a big fan of the 243, 25-06 and 270, for exactly what you list, I'd probably have to recommend the 308. Good variety of true match ammo available, ammo in general is very widely available, and if you want to shoot cheap, that's a possibility as well. And you can take most any North American game. Any of the choices you list from 243 would serve as a 600 yard rifle but you may find that there are some more specialized choices, namely the 6.5x55 and even better, the 6.5x284. If I was getting a rifle for 600 yard use most specifically, I'd get either a 6mm or 6.5mm based cartridge. Esp with handloads. Many excellent bullets, well known and proven accuracy, very little recoil.

Most rifles today are plenty accurate in my experience and with a bit of tweaking of the bedding, floating and trigger work, and lots and lots of experience, many are downright scary-accurate.

 

[Bacchus]

I'd also recommend the 308. However, IMO, the recoil of a 308 is slightly more than that of a 30-30.

But the ammo is cheap and can often be found for about $9 a box. Easy to reload if you ever have the time/interest.

 

[cheygriz]

The .308 would seem to be your best choice by far.

I'm curious though, why you rule out the .223. Ammo is MUCH cheaper, recoil is non-existent, and accuracy is excellent.

 

[seeker_two]

I'm curious though, why you rule out the .223. Ammo is MUCH cheaper, recoil is non-existent, and accuracy is excellent.

And energy is insufficient for big-game hunting. The .308 gives you adequate power for most of North America's big game as well as being able to download for smaller targets.

You can always download the .308, but you can't upload the .223...

 

[Poodleshooter]

seeker_two, he doesn't intend on hunting with it.
Chaim,
I'd echo the others and recommed the .308. The magnums are far too expensive for any regular shooting. Even with cartridges such as the .270,.280, .22-250 and .243, you're paying for that softpoint, instead of cheaper FMJ.
BTW, Chaim, do the kosher rules disallow hunting due to the method of blood being released from the animal in an impure manner, or the issue of cloven hooves w/o chewing the cud (deer)? My knowledge is only from the Torah, but is pretty vague on that issue.....

 

[biere]

He mentioned the 223 was a smaller lighter bullet. Perhaps this gets into wind drift or something.

I would check current surplus prices, once the south african tubs of 223 dried up it seemed like really cheap 223 was not as common.

Aim had 308 surplus at 140 delivered for a case not too long ago.

I just like 308 more because it recoils more.

Both rounds should have lots of data for shooting long range, I just know more of my current books have stuff on the 308.

And eventually if you want to get super serious and reload a 308 can be rebarelled in something based of the 308 case and shooting a better bullet for long range. I just think the extra powder capacity would be better if you want to go that way.

 

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

No-one mentioned 6.5 x 55 Swedish? Mild recoil, reasonably available surplus, accurate.

'Nuther vote for .25-06.

.308 and .30-06 have readily available matchloads.

 

[MolonLabe416]

The 308 seems to me the most versitle 30-something cartridge available.

Most rifles are more accurate than you are. Cheap surplus ammo is avilable for plinking. Recoil, flash, and blast are moderate. Large selection of weapons from which to choose.

I'd look at the controlled feed Winchester Model 70 short action featherweight. Add a good Leupold scope in a fixed 4x, or 1.75x6 variable, a Ching Sling, and you'd be good to go.

 

[chaim]

I'm curious though, why you rule out the .223. Ammo is MUCH cheaper, recoil is non-existent, and accuracy is excellent.

Well, I don't really reload and I want long-range capability (so that I don't have to buy something else when I get there). From most of what I've read the people that do the really long range stuff with .223 use much heavier than usual bullets (70, 80 and even 90gr) that leave you with rounds so long that it turns their ARs into one shot rifles because the rounds won't fit in the mags (they have to insert them by hand directly into the chamber). I am not aware of any such ammo available commercially (at least there isn't any common ammo) and I do not reload as of yet. I want a chambering that is pretty versatile in common off the shelf loadings.

I could see getting one down the road (when I have the cash) in order to have a rifle that is really cheap to shoot, that has virtually no recoil and that is more powerful and longer range than a .22lr. That way I'd be able to practice medium range shooting (100-200yds) pretty much all day and probably get something a little closer to my other bolt (the one I hope to buy) than my .22 would be.

Chaim, do the kosher rules disallow hunting due to the method of blood being released from the animal in an impure manner, or the issue of cloven hooves w/o chewing the cud (deer)?

Well, there is only a little about kosher slaughtering in the Written Torah (Tanach, known by most non-Jews as the Old Testiment, though we tend to hate that term) but there is a lot in the Oral Torah/Oral Law (Talmud). Basically, an animal must have been slaughtered in a very specific manner in addition to being an allowed species in order for the meat to be kosher. In addition, there are many considerations during the butchering that make it hard to do properly without extensive training and experience.

If you are interested in more information this page from the Orthodox Union will give you plenty of info: http://www.ou.org/kosher/primer.html , you'll need to look specifically at Section III Kosher Slaughtering and the subsections on Shechita (slaughter), Bedika (inspecting the carcass for inperfections that would render the animal treif, not kosher), Glatt Kosher (a higher kosher standard most observant Jews keep to, the animal's lungs must be essentially perfect), Nikkur (special butchering considerations as certain nerves and fats on the animal that were used in the sacrifices in the days of the Temple cannot be eaten), and Koshering (the process of removing all excess blood from the meat).

 

[Quintin Likely]

308. Its cheap, surplus ammo and brass can be had relatively easily, recoil and muzzle blast won't beat you up like a magnum will, there's enough factory loads available from anything to hunting (if you so choose) and match loads, it'll go out to 1000 yards or so with the right rifle/optics/shooter package, and its accurate and consistent. A heavy barrel in whatever rifle you've decided on, some good glass on it, and you're ready to rock.

 

[Marshall]

Chaim, 308 would be my choice with 30-06 next in line.

Out of curiosity, where are you going to be shooting out to 700yds or possibly 1000yds? Do you have a range that offers that distance? Also, how do you go from not having a rifle except for a .22. to wanting to shoot at these long ranges not being a hunter? It am just trying to understand? LOL

 

[twoblink]

I've standarized on the 308. It's effective out to 1000 yards, if you can shoot that far. It will take most big games in north america, and there are just every kind of game loads available from nosler to bera claw etc.. so your choices are ammo is abundent... Also, the shorter action and cheaper ammo vs. the 30-06 means you will be able to get more practice in. Also, the shorter action makes it a bit more accurate then the 30-06 and a bit more consistent as well..

 

[Sir Galahad]

Lots of folks like to shoot long distance who don't hunt. It's fun and it's also a discipline for some similar to some archery disciplines.

Chaim, the .308 is a great round. I shoot South African military surplus through my Ruger International and it shoots great. Recoil is not too bad. I'm 5'7", 120lbs. after a big dinner I was shooting 8mm Mauser, .303 British, and 7.62x54 when I was younger, shorter, and skinnier.

 

[chaim]

Out of curiosity, where are you going to be shooting out to 700yds or possibly 1000yds? Do you have a range that offers that distance? Also, how do you go from not having a rifle except for a .22. to wanting to shoot at these long ranges not being a hunter? It am just trying to understand? LOL

I have several rifles, just none that are bolt rifles or capable of any distance or precision accuracy (a 30-30, an SKS, and .22s). I also don't get to go to the rifle ranges often so I don't have a lot of rifle practice, though I plan to join a club after I buy another rifle or two (at least after the bolt) so that I can practice more often (the private ranges often have more convenient hours). I have long been interested in shooting at distance and I want to get a rifle capable of it. I will spend some time at shorter ranges trying to build the skills necessary to shoot at longer distances.

No there aren't many long range ranges nearby. There are some from my understanding within an hour or two from here that I'll be able to use from time to time and when I can only get to a "garden variety" 100 or 200 yard range I'll simply downsize the target at approximately proportional levels (to practice at approx. double the actual range size cut the target in size by 1/2). I know for sure of ranges that aren't too far away that go to 500 yards and I think some may go to 600-800. I never said anything about shooting at 1K yards (remember 500-700 is what I stated in my first post as what I'm looking for, part of that is because I know there are available ranges within those distances). Of course, that doesn't mean that 1000 yard capability out of the rifle would be a problem. As with handguns, the greater the inherent accuracy the closer the groups no matter what the range you are actually shooting from or your capabilities.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

You might consider a surplus No.4 Lee-Enfield in .303 or a Finnish M/39 Mosin-Nagant. In good condition both can be quite accurate and ammo is reasonably priced.

I have a No.4 Mk.II that will shoot into 1 MOA with the right loads, plus a M/39, although that hasn't really been given a serious workout yet. The M/39s have a reputation for accuracy second only to the Swedish Mausers among milsurps.

It will be a lot easier to scope the Lee-Enfield, unless you put a forward-mounted scope on the Mosin.

 

[DAL]

It looks as if the .308 has most of the votes so far. No doubt about it, it's a great cartridge. One cartridge I didn't see mentioned was the 7mm-08. Unfortunately, I don't own one, mainly because my .30-06 fits all of my needs so well. If I ever needed to replace it, though, I'd replace it with a 7-08.
DAL