Which of the lighter full-power cartridges is best?

[chaim]

OK, first let me apologize. I don't spend much time on the rifle side but I know from the handguns side that such questions can cause trouble. I am not looking to start arguements, I'm just starting my thinking process about which bolt rifle to get next and I want the best cartridge for me.

I have found that with rifles I am a little bit recoil shy. Basically, I am not a hunter and I'm not one of the tin foil hat crowd who thinks that the revolution, the UN blue helmet invasion, the alien invasion, the covert Chinese invasion, etc., is coming any day. I'd like a full power cartridge because I do like to know that the power is there and I like to know by the feel that I am shooting a rifle, but I don't hunt and I don't think I'm going to need to play sniper so I don't need the maximum power I can get.

I like my Savage in 30-06 but it isn't very comfortable to shoot more than a box or two at a time. I will be getting a recoil pad for it, but I'd also like something that I can shoot more comfortably to begin with.

To get some idea what I'm after, my favorite rifle is my Winchester 94. The 30-30 gives a fair amount of power and out of a lightweight rifle like the Win 94 you can certainly feel it. However, it isn't too much and I can fairly comfortably shoot 100 rounds in one session (sure you feel it, but it isn't really uncomfortable). Ideally, I'd love a full-power rifle with the felt recoil of the Win 94, but I know that isn't very realistic. So what I'm basically looking for is something that splits the felt recoil of the 30-06 out of a bolt rifle and the 30-30 out of a lightweight rifle like the Winchester 94.

I don't need all the power of a 30-06 or 7.62x54R but I want more than a .223 or 7.62x39. I'd like something with enough power that as I get more competent with rifles I can fairly easily use at longer ranges without reaching the absolute maximum of the caliber (up to about 500yrds, beyond that and I'd want a 30-06, .270 or .308).

I'm also looking for something that isn't too hard to find. I don't reload rifle. Preferably, I'd want something that I can find at Walmart or similar stores, or at least at Bass Pro Shop. Also, I'd prefer something that most ammo manufacturers make and if they have multiple brands/loadings (i.e. Federal's American Eagle brand plus multiple Federal name options) they carry it in most of their loads.

I'd like comments on the cartridges I'm considering as well as suggestions that I might have missed.

Here are my main contenders:

-.243: Fairly light recoil from a standard bolt rifle, fairly flat trajectory and more than enough power for deer sized game (again, I'm not a hunter but I like to know the power is there). Very easy to find, just about anyplace that carries ammo and most ammo brands have this cartridge.

-6.5x55: This cartridge has a great reputation for accuracy plus it is supposed to be a pretty pleasant shooter. It isn't as easy to find as .243 but it isn't too bad. I might get a Swedish Mauser if I can find one that fits my desires (good combination of good condition and moderate price) and if I do it would certainly be nice to have something that can share ammo.

Those are the top two choices and everything else is a bit lower, others I'm considering:
-The various non-magnum 7mms: 7mm/08, 7mmRem, etc are interesting and sometimes are higher on my list. They aren't as easy to find though as .243 or the 7mmRemMag. I'm not sure the recoil and accuracy reputations.
-.308: I will get a (probably several) .308s over the next few years. It is a flat trajectory, very accurate cartridge with similar power to 30-06 but less felt recoil. Very easy cartridge to find. However, it might have a little too much felt recoil out of a bolt rifle for this slot on my list.
-.270: All the comments for the .308 fit (except I'm not sure if I'm going to own any bolt rifles in this cartridge- probably only a Remington 7400).
-.280: I don't know enough about this cartridge to comment and it isn't quite as common as the others.
-7mm Mauser: Good, easy to find cartridge (easy to find surplus loads anyway). However, I'm not sure how it recoils out of your standard bolt rifle, the accuracy out of commercial rifles and it isn't always easy to find commercial ammo locally. I will own a Mauser eventually though, so ammo compatability would be nice.
.223: Just like .308 this is a good cartridge that I plan to own a few rifles in (including at least one bolt for cheap and easy practice). However, it doesn't really fit this place on my list (not enough power). Really if I get this one I'm more putting off the "powerful but easy to shoot" niche on my list in favor or the "cheap and easy to shoot for practice" niche on my list.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Don't count out the .250 Savage.

It is one of those rare cartridges that asks for so little but gives so much in return.

The .270 and the .280 are both good cartridges. One will do anything that the other does equally well. Remington could have made a good show with the .280 had they introduced it 40 years earlier. As it was, the .270 grabbed the limelight.

The .243 is also a good cartridge. I've used one for years as a groundhog gun.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Of the rounds you list, my picks would be 6.5x55 or 7x57. Both have mild recoil; of the two thr 6.5 will be more accurate.

Do you handload? If so, you can download the '06 a little and save some wear and tear on your shoulder. I used to shoot in service rifle matches with my M1. I often shot my handloads consisting of a Winchester 150 grain FMJ-BT on top of enough IMR-4064 to give ~2700 fps (cf. 2850 fps for M2 Ball). Recoil was noticeably less and accuracy was good in my rifle. This is about .308 ballistics, BTW.

 

[Jaywalker]

I've been a similar search recently. Here's link with a recoil calculator I posted: http://www.thehighroadhttp://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=41760,
and here's a discussion about reducing the recoil in my existing rifle, including replacing barrels: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=41375. (Sorry about the long link - the button doesn't seem to work.)

In addition to your possibilities, consider the 260 Remington, with 120 to 140 grain bullets, and realistic cartridge velocities. (The factory velocites tend to be optimistic, sometimes by a couple of hundred feet per second, and that makes a significant difference in recoil.) It's a modern match for the light-recoiling 6.5X55 in a shorter action.

Jaywalker

 

[chaim]

Wow, that was quick. Two replies only moments after posting my question! (edit: and one more while I was posting this reply)

Anyway, I just thought of one more option.

For the .223 bolt slot, a cheap rifle to shoot that is easy on the shoulder and thus allows a lot of practice, I was also considering a 7.62x39 bolt rifle (probably the CZ). I was wondering, I know I said that I don't reload rifle, but if I got this catagory first and got the 7.62x39 what potential does this cartridge have for reloaders? If I added the cartridge to my reloading (right now I only do revolver calibers) would I be able to safely get power levels on par with the 6.5x55, .243 or even .308? If so this one rifle could straddle two catagories, thus moving this cartridge up a notch on my list. Yeah, I'd still get one, or more, of the calibers listed, but it would be nice right now while I don't have many rifles to have something that can fit more than one catagory. Also, what is the accuracy potential with good commercial ammo (I can't tell, I only have an SKS in this chambering and I'm not a very good shot yet anyway) or reloaded ammo.

 

[Selfdfenz]

-6.5x55: This cartridge has a great reputation for accuracy plus it is supposed to be a pretty pleasant shooter. It isn't as easy to find as .243 but it isn't too bad. I might get a Swedish Mauser if I can find one that fits my desires (good combination of good condition and moderate price) and if I do it would certainly be nice to have something that can share ammo.

bout sums it up

I don't find the 7- 08 to be a barn burner, but very accurate. Good selection of commercial ammo. Costs about the same a 6.5 Swed.

S-

 

[Mike Irwin]

The 7.62x39 has lots of potential for the reloader.

Lots of available brass, lots of good bullets if you get a rifle with a .308 bore diameter, somewhat fewer choices if you get one with .311 bore diameter. Don't know what the CZ bore diameter is, though.

The problem with the 7.62x39 is, though, that it just doesn't seem to be as capable of the kind of fine accuracy that other rounds are.

It seems to be a good, solid, 1" at 100 yards gun, not much better. Not shabby, but a far cry from the 0.25 to 0.50 inch groups that many of the other calibers are routinely capable of producing with a bit of reloading time and rifle work.

As for its power levels, no. You'll never match the .308 power wise. You're solidly in the .30-30 class powerwise with the 7.62.

 

[chaim]

Yeah, that is what I was afraid of. If the 7.62x39 isn't really capable of much more power even with careful reloading then it isn't really suited for what I want right now. I am also afraid that it isn't capable of better than decent accuracy even with reloading (now it wouldn't be a problem, but I don't plan to own more than half a dozen commercial bolt rifles so I want something that I can grow into and not have to replace when I get better). I really like that CZ rifle and I'd love something a little different than a .223 but when I go for the rifle meant for cheap centerfire practice the .223 really is likely to be it (in either a CZ or Howa rifle). I guess for now though, neither really fits what I want.

 

[Art Eatman]

I've been shooting the '06 for over 50 years, but it's a really rare day that I ever shoot a whole box of full-house ammo at one sitting. So, no shoulder pain. But, I reload, so it's really easy to load down for plinking if I want to. Most any old lead bullet of 150 to 180 grains ahead of 20 grains of 2400 and away I go. (That load's on the upper end of okay for a .30-30, but it works fine in the Krag or .308. )

For all the time full power without worrisome recoil, the old .243 is just really hard to beat. Again, it's a reloader's cartridge, from a cost standpoint.

Art

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

I know you didn't mention them but...

My favorite: Easy recoiling, accurate and great ballistics - 25.06 Rem.

Or, more efficient, close to the same ballistics - .257 Roberts

 

[Brian Williams]

I really like my 7mm-08 in my win Compact Classic. I had Rem mod 7 in 7mm-08 and it was a super little rifle subMOA with factory rem coreloks, but my son needed another rifle and I traded it off cause it did the same thing as my Winchester.

You are looking for a caliber. I normally look for a combo of Cartridge and rifle style.

 

[H&Hhunter]

For an all around do it all and cheap to shoot rifle the .308 is REALLY hard to beat. Makes a great hunting round as well I've used it to take much of the larger non-dangerous game up to Elk, Eland and Moose. I wouldn't hesitate to use it on all of the cats and most of the bears including mountain Grizz and black bear.

 

[mtnbkr]

the 6.5x55 is soft enough that I can shoot 100rnds of factory ammo in a single session without undue pain. It's easy to load for too. It's the most accurate cartridge I've shot so far. Dunno if it's the gun, the cartridge, or the lack of recoil. Either way, I get better results with it than anything else.

Half the gunshops I visit carry 6.5x55 ammo. Also, Ammoman.com and Aimsurplus.com carry discounted 6.5x55. Ammoman.com has Federal "High Shok" hunting loads for $11/box. I ordered 8 boxes a while back and it came up $10/box.

Chris

 

[Mike Irwin]

I've shot MTNBKR's 6.5x55. It's a Winchester lightweight. Nice stock, nice action, nice weight, and the recoil isn't bad at all.

 

[russlate]

MTNBKR:

Seems to me W. D. M. Bell tried the 6.5 x 55 and found it a bit light, then switched to the 7x57 175 gr. round nosed ball.

Jack O'Connor liked the 7x57 for the "little lady".

Up until now I never realized that I always wanted to juxtaposition the above two sentences together! Makes for massive cognitive dissonance to say the least. ROTFLMAO


I've got a SAFN49 in 7x57 with 200 rounds S&B ball as described. J&G Sales has a pic of the CZ 550 FS in 7x57 that is gorgerous. And they offer the CZ 584 O/U in 12ga./7x57 too.

The nice thing about the 7x57 is ammo is loaded down by the factories. Still does the job.

Modern brass, powders, and super bullets make it close to or even into the 270; 280; 30-06 class.

And the 25-06 is at the top of my list, too! Total love inside 3 trips to the range, where I proved and re-proved to myself it wasn't going to hurt me. Really. Things got even better after that.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Seems to me W. D. M. Bell tried the 6.5 x 55 and found it a bit light."

I don't know of Bell ever specifically using the 6.5x55, but I do know that he figured he took over 2,000 elephants with the 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, a cartridge that was very similar to the 6.5x55.

Bell did, however, use a wide variety of light rifles over the years, including the .275 Rigby, AKA Rigby's version of the 7mm Mauser.

To try to attribute any single cartridge to Bell would be a mistake.

 

[Bostonterrier97]

25-06, 257 Roberts
270
Are all flat shooting cartridges..shoot flatter than the 308, but have less recoil.

 

[russlate]

Mike: I stand corrected. As I remember the source ( long forgotten by my brain ) did mention the 6.5 x 54 Mannlicher. But it did state Bell went to the 275 Rigby ( aka 7 x 57 ) after using the smaller 6.5. Something about the 173-5 grain ball of the time being of greater integrity than the 6.5 solilds comes to mind, but my memory, as you've pointed out, does seem to have holes in it!

( )

 

[seeker_two]

If you like the lever-actions, you might want to check out the .35 Remington. A little more power & reach than the .30-30; and, if you get into handloading, you can use .357Mag bullets for light reloads.

Other choices (but a little harder to find) would be the .38-55, .348 Winchester & the .358 Winchester.

If you want to go to a much bigger bore, you could try the .45-70. You can get factory loads that range from light (Cowboy loads) to super-hot (Garrett Hammerheads ). Easy to reload, too.

Good luck in the rifle search...

 

[trigger45]

.243 kicks more than the 6.5x55swed. swede is easier to shoot.

 

[Okiecruffler]

A little harder to find ammo for, but I've always thought the .257 Roberts was a great cartridge that never got the respect it deserved.

 

[mtnbkr]

I've got to say I've become enamored with the 6.5swede since buying it this Feb (at the advice of several on this board). It's soft shooting in the extreme, accurate, and fun to be using something a bit "different" than everyone else.

I haven't used it on game yet, but if it lives up to the hype, I'll probably never go back to my '06.

I just looked at the 257 Roberts. How is it different/better than the 6.5swede (not an attack, just wondering what makes it better since it looks so similar on paper).

Chris

 

[scotjute]

I've been very pleased with Swedish MAuser round. I shoot a scoped Swede with 23.6" barrell, but my target shooting is usually 20 rounds or less. Don't know if you want to shoot one of the Swedes themselves or get a commercial gun, but the 6.5x55 round seems to be a very good combo of light recoil, excellent accuracy, and power. More than suitable for large deer-sized animals.
Have heard good things about the .243 also, just don't have experience with it.

 

[Jaywalker]

mtnbkr:

I just looked at the 257 Roberts. How is it different/better than the 6.5swede (not an attack, just wondering what makes it better since it looks so similar on paper).

I've always liked the 257 - it was the first centerfire I ever shot. It was reasonably accurate (for the time), very light recoiling, and had the ability to use significantly larger bullets than the 6mm crowd. Its case was/is based on the 7X57 case. (I recall reading Jack O'Connor making the point that it was an excellent cartirdge; he said he'd take any grizzly that ever lived with his, as long as he could do it above the timberline.)

On the other hand, I'd think it would be hard for an average 257 to match the average 6.5X55 for accuracy, and it couldn't touch it for heavier bullets. I'd think in factory loads recoil would be low in each.

I seem to recall that there were issues about throat length in the 257, with some rifles having more freebore, and subsequently somewhat less accuracy, with factory loads. I'm sure that's resolved in current production rifles, however.

IMO, unless you have an emotional attachment to the 257, I'd think the 6.5X55 was a better "one rifle" approach.

Jaywalker

 

[Kamicosmos]

I'm a bit shy of the big boomer rifles myself. (Big Boomer handguns I love, go figure!)

Anyways, I've shot my fair share of 30 cals (303, 30-06, 308, 7mm Mag, 300 Win Mag, 300 Weatherby Mag, 340 Weatherby Mag)

But, for a 'deer rifle' I have to admit, I'll buy a .270. I shot one of the lightweight synthetic stock models, and was very pleased with the recoil level. I was expecting a punch since the rifle was so light, but it was very comfortable. I am very interested in the 270 Short Mag too. Uh oh...I feel that bug starting to nag.

For smaller bore, .223 is hard to beat. Cheap, basically no recoil, accurate. Handloading yields even better results. It's hard to beat an AR too!