Which caliber to move 200-250 gr slug at ~1050 fps (subsonic)?

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Snubster

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I'm looking to get a S&W N-frame that throws a 200-250 gr slug at approximately 1050 fps (to remain subsonic at approximately 4400 ft elevation). I think I calculated speed of sound to be around 1100 fps at my elevation. I'm looking to get an all-steel model with 4" barrel.

Which caliber would most easily achieve this (plan to begin handloading)? 44 Special, 44 Magnum, 45 ACP, 41 Magnum, 45 (Long) Colt?

I plan to reload only for this caliber. The gun will be strictly for CCW and practicing at the range to remain familiar. Right now, I'm planning to use Gold Dots.

I'm hoping to find a fixed sight gun since it's sole purpose will be for defense. Out of the current production S&Ws, the "classic" 21 looks like it may be ideal for this. I'm leaning towards 44 Spl and 45 LC.

Thoughts?
 
I'd suffer the adjustable sights and go with the 629, but that's just me.

The load you speak of was the load I fired the most of when I had a .44. A 250 LSWC at a thousand fps can get quite a bit done.
 
200+ gr at 1050 fps
fixed sight S&W

All I see that would fit your EXACT wants would be a Model 21 .44 Special with non-beginner heavy loads (Buffalo Bore sells them, though.) or the hard kicking lightweight Model 329 .44 Magnum Night Guard loaded down. They are not now making a .41 Magnum or .45 Colt with fixed sights.

There is a wide selection new and used if you could stand the adjustable sights... or replace them with the Cylinder and Slide sights as used on the Night Guards.

Me?
I'd settle for three-digit velocity and get the Model .22 .45 ACP.
I don't handload defense ammo, either.
 
What's up with the sub-sonic requirement?
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I just wanted something a little quieter that throws out a heavier bullet. Most of my collection is .357 or .38. I only have 1 "big" bore so far--a 696. But, I'd like to try carrying a 4" N-frame. My main issue with the 696 are the adjustable sights. I keep trying to get used to them but I just point so much faster with the fixed sights. I think it's because I've spent so much time with fixed-sight J and K frames.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.
 
You may need to learn to use adjustable sights.

Most of the big boomers in 44 Spl., .44 Mag, .45 ACP, and .45 Colt are going to have adjustable sights, just because of the very wide range of loads they digest.

Big changes in bullet weight & velocity from what is considered "standard" for the caliber will require adjustable sights in order to sight the gun in with the load.

rcmodel
 
Subsonic means WAY less noise indoors. It means not blowing your eardrums out if you have to shoot inside a car fr'instance.

I've been doing the same digging and the #1 answer seems to be 45LC. Esp. with factory ammo - the Speer 250gr Gold Dot from hell.

If you're handloading, both the 44Mag and 44Spl are fine choices.

45ACP will have to run higher pressure due to less case volume. Good reload speed with moonclips though, so it's still a contender.

The 41Mag is out, in my book. Not enough good projectiles for expansion in this speed range.

One possibility in terms of the gun: why not a Ruger Redhawk in the new 4" barrel in either 44Mag or 45LC, and then go with a Bowen "Rough Country" rear sight that will hold it's aim even if bumped around some? Kind of a compromise between adjustable and fixed, and can still be dialed in for different loads. Given the price difference between Ruger and S&W, the Redhawk plus sight will still be cheaper than a stock Smith.
 
Subsonic doesn't mean much with a handgun unless you are using a suppressor/silencer. Then it helps the "silencer to work a bit better and eliminates the crack of the bullet going thru the soundbarrier. With a revolver the blast around the front of the cylinder is going to make way more noise than a bullet at transsonic speeds will.

As several have pointed out the best bets for heavy bullets at sub-sonic speeds are the 44sp, 45lc, or downloaded 44mag. The 45acp in a revolver also is a good bet. S&W has guns to cover all of these calibers in their new Classic Series, most in both a fixed and adjustable sight version.

While the 41mag can handle a bullet up to around 240/250gr, a better choice would be something in the 44/45 caliber range since this is the bullet size they were designed for.
 
Subsonic doesn't mean much with a handgun unless you are using a suppressor/silencer.
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I have to disagree to a point.

I understand what Boulder is talking about, and it is, and isn't, exactly related to bullet velocity.

Rather, it is chamber pressure.

The super-sonic loads like his .357 for sure have a much sharper & more painful "Crack" then a .44 Spl. or .45 Colt's big slow bullets and less painful boom.

But it's because the first is running 35,000 PSI and the later two are running less then half that.

I think it's the noise from the high-pressure blast that he finds objectionable, and the bullet being super-sonic is just the end result of that.

rcmodel
 
The Model 21 would be a good choice for you. I have one, and it is a pleasure to shoot, with 240 LSWC's handloaded to around 900 fps, or the Buffalo Bore 255 LSWC's at about 1000 fps. I carry it with the Cor Bon 200 DPX, which clock in at about 1000 fps.

Check CDNN, you should be able to get a M21 non-Thunder Ranch there for about $499.
 
Bigger caliber and case capacity generally allows you to get the same bullet weight to the same velocity with less pressure. .45 Colt will probably do what what you're asking while making the least noise.
 
The .45 Colt is a candidate -- go to old issues of Handloader and Rifle magazine. Brian Pearce has published several articles on the .45 Colt, including tables showing loads for that caliber at different pressure levels. He has several that will push a 250 grain bullet to around 1000 fps at SAAMI limits (14,000 CUP).

Of course, that limit is designed to produce safe loads in old, wrought iron-framed SAAs. He has detailed discussions about which modern revolvers can be taken above that level, and by how much. The Colt New Service, for example, can be taken to 20-21,000 CUP, and the Ruger Blackhawk to 32,000 CUP.
 
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Interesting all of the calibers I mentioned have been recommended (except .41 Mag).

I'm leaning towards the 21, only because it's readily available and not a bad price at CDNN right now. Not sure how I feel about the 22. I like the wide selection and availability of ammo, but I kind of want to learn to reload a revolver caliber first, since they are my true passion.
 
If you're a handloader I would look at the .44 spl. If you also need to feed an autoloader then .45 ACP. I also believe subsonic loads are all that are really necessary. Heavy and slow like a freight train.
 
I will always recommend the .45 ACP for self-defense. For plinking and woods carry, I prefer a revolver or a .22 like my Colt Woodsman.

I use 230 grain lead ball for practice and 230 grain HydraShoks for carry, but looking at the Hodgdon manual in the +P section, I see 9.7 grains of HS6 will drive a 200 grain bullet to about 1050 fps, with 19,500 CUP -- a safe load in .45 ACP.
 
Get some 215 grain SWC for your 357 and load them up.
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I did that once. Not that fast, I was comparing felt recoil at IPSC power factors and a 200 gr was softer to shoot than a 158 and a lot nicer than a 125 at the same momentum value.
 
Nobody for the 44-40?

I second trying a 190---215 gr. in .357

The brits loaded them in a .38 (well kinda)
 
Nobody for the 44-40?
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Reloading .44-40 sucks. The cases are about as rugged as heavy duty foil.

Based on the intended use my first thought was a revolver in .45 ACP. You can load it with .45 Auto Rim rounds and HKS even makes speedloaders for them. But you can also use .45 ACP in 1/3, 1/2, and full moon clips.

FWIW, my S&W Model 625 is the most accurate handgun I've fired.
 
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