Which current production 1911 is CLOSEST to the ORIGINAL 1911-A1?

[Lone_Gunman]

Well MIM works when done right too. Some people just resist change.

Generally, MIM is ok in terms of quality, but he was not asking about quality, he was asking about which 1911 is closest to an original. Whether or not people resist change has nothing to do with the fact that an original 1911 had No MIM parts. Pardon me for trying to answer the question he asked.

Secondly, I would point out that MIM is generally OK, but there are certain small parts that its not too good for, such as extractors. The extractor on a 1911, for example, needs to be made out of spring steel to maintain the right tension over a long period of time.

If you want a 1911 that cosmetically looks like an original, the Springfield Mil Spec is fine, but don't think you are getting an original on the inside.

 

[JohnBT]

"if you are over 50 I really doubt you will want the USGI sites."

Color me backward, but I'm weeks away from 56, wear Varilux progressive lenses every waking hour because my vision is about 20/1200+, and I LOVE the sights on the Colt WWI Repro.

John

 

[givo08]

MIM allows manufactures to make smaller parts to tighter tolerances with less standard deviation in size/shape differences between the parts. The downside is the parts are slightly weaker. In a good MIM process the parts will be about 97% the strength of steel. For most applications on a firearm, it's a good thing to have MIM because you have tighter fitting parts that don't need as much "gunsmith" work to get the gun to fit/function correctly. A lot of traditionalists resist the change though, especially the 1911 crowd (despite the fact that a lot of the most consistantly reliable handguns on the market like glocks, HK's, S&W, etc use MIM successfully) because it's not original. Also, Kimber MIM parts seem to have a reputation for breaking compared to other makers MIM parts.

 

[mpthole]

What about Auto Ordnance? Anyone know anything about them? Looks like they're 100% USA made.

 

[Zundfolge]

2. LOCK - That means its NOT mechanicaly a 1911-A1, that's a deal breaker for me.

Its going to be harder and harder to find any new manufactured gun without one ... welcome to the nanny state.

Someone mentioned Auto Ordnance ... they make their "WWII Parkerized" which should meet your requirements (and I don't know if they put a lock in theirs, they do package it with a cable lock you can feel free to throw away or use to lock up your trash cans or something)

http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_1911pkz_f.html (didn't notice that mpthole put this same link in his post )

 

[Hacker15E]

To my eyeballs the Kahr/Auto Ordnance 1911 appears to be the most authentic looking current production replica of the M1911A1.

 

[pete f]

http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/1911.asp

I think this is the closest.

certainly close to being the best.

 

[mpthole]

certainly close to being the best.

for $1895, it better be the best!

 

[rough rider]

NORINCO 1911. No Cast! No MIM! All forged just like they used to make them back then. Priced right too.

 

[Hacker15E]

http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/1911.asp

I think this is the closest.

certainly close to being the best.

While the USFA guns are certainly well made and pretty, I think they're a trainwreck in terms of authenticity.

That particular gun has 1911 sights, 1911A1 frame features, and wide grips off a pre-1911 model prototype.

You would think that for the effort that they're putting into making those things and for the $ that people have to pay, they'd get all the details correct.

 

[ugaarguy]

Generally, MIM is ok in terms of quality, but he was not asking about quality, he was asking about which 1911 is closest to an original. Whether or not people resist change has nothing to do with the fact that an original 1911 had No MIM parts. Pardon me for trying to answer the question he asked.

I misunderstood the intent of your statement about MIM parts, my apologies.

Secondly, I would point out that MIM is generally OK, but there are certain small parts that its not too good for, such as extractors. The extractor on a 1911, for example, needs to be made out of spring steel to maintain the right tension over a long period of time.

No arguement there

If you want a 1911 that cosmetically looks like an original, the Springfield Mil Spec is fine, but don't think you are getting an original on the inside.

Well if we're gettin to this level an Original Argentine Sistema is the most original at the price point. After that we're lookin at the Colt WWII repro and the new USFA 1911; both of which sell for prices that put you in the neighborhood of an original GI gun. I do agree though, if you want it as close to original specs as you can get it can be done - but you better be ready to pay if you wanna play that game.

 

[poppy]

rough rider

NORINCO 1911. No Cast! No MIM! All forged just like they used to make them back then. Priced right too

I was going to mention the Norinco also, but quickly add that they are no longer imported into the US. (Canadians can still buy them though.) Except for the sights, they are pretty close to the original.

My Argentine Sistema Colt sure looks exactly like the original, but, of course, they haven't been manufactured sense the 1960's.

 

[KC&97TA]

This is the closest to an originial you can get

COLT 1911 U.S.ARMY .45acp, "FRAMES ONLY" 1917 production, these frames were later assembled into pistols at the Ordnance Depots as firearms were needed, listed in all the .45 books, 96% orig. blue, xlnt diamond checkered stocks, No inspectors mark-it didn't leave the factory as a complete firearm, all Colt parts and matching in condition and color, A.J. Savage slide, s/n 2121xx $3250

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976696579.htm

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Springfield's is closest to a 1911A1 while the Colt is closest to a real 1911.

Actually, the hammer is wrong on the Springfield, the grips are wrong, the firing pin is wrong, and it has the infernal locking system. The new Auto-Ordnance GI is actually a closer clone of the original M1911A1 than the Springfield, and cheaper.

The absolute nearest clone, if you can find one, is the Colt WW2 reissue, but they only built 4000 of them and they were sold out a couple of years ago. The RIA GI is close and affordable, but my personal choice would be a new Colt Series 70. The grips would have to be changed to be accurate for the M1911A1, and the hammer isn't a wide spur style, but other than that it's about as close as you can come.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/1911.asp

I think this is the closest.

certainly close to being the best.

Nope. Not even close. Read their advertising closely:

Features: High polish Blue (or Military polish Armory Blue extra charge), Browning’s original wide design, standard walnut grips, 7+1 magazine, 45 ACP, fire blue appointments, 1905 patent dates, grip safety, small contoured checkered thumb safety and spur hammer with hand cut checkering.

Who knows what Browning's "original wide design" was? I don't. Apparently what they've done is produce a clone of what they think was an early prototype, actually not the M1911 but maybe a 1909 or 1910 pistol. Looking at the photo, it appears that the grip is much wider front-to-back than the actual M1911 as adopted by the military.

The U.S. Firearms "1911" isn't a 1911 -- it's a high quality reproduction of a pistol that never existed.

 

[combatantr2]

+1 on the NORINCO. specs and appearance are closely identical. good steel and better than springfields. much better than the r.i.a. utterly reliable out of the box. but of course NORCS are rare in the u.s.

 

[MachIVshooter]

The U.S. Firearms "1911" isn't a 1911 -- it's a high quality reproduction of a pistol that never existed.

That gave me a chuckle.

For a true reproduction gun, the Colt is the only thing out there new. But it is a WWI 1911. Unfortunately, I can't think of a single WWII 1911A1 repro that is 100% accurate.

If I were going to go for one, I'd probably go with the RIA and get the correct grips. Definately the most cost-effective. I have not heard good things about the Auto-ord. The Springfield, albeit a nice gun, is too far removed from the original.

 

[Hacker15E]

If I were going to go for one, I'd probably go with the RIA and get the correct grips.

There are still parts you have to replace outside of grips to make the Rock Island 1911A1 spec; correct length trigger, arched/looped MSH, correct hammer, correct front sight.

 

[Hacker15E]

I had a chance to handle a couple different Auto Ordnance/Kahr 1911s today at a gun show and I think they're a little weird...

Comparing them side-to-side with an RIA and Springfield (there were no GI 1911s on the table) I noted that the size and shape of the frame and accessories on the AO are just a little off. The AO seemed thicker and blockier in the grip area, with trigger relief cutouts that were too small and a trigger that was too skinny and blocky.

I was less impressed with it in person than I was of the photos.

 

[rough rider]

combatantr2
+1 on the NORINCO. specs and appearance are closely identical. good steel and better than springfields. much better than the r.i.a. utterly reliable out of the box. but of course NORCS are rare in the u.s.

too bad indeed.

 

[XavierBreath]

Gents,
The real issue here is money. What is your budget?

If you have $1500+ to spend, buy the real deal. There is no reason not to. Do your research, make sure you don't get taken, and own a piece of history. Shoot it if you like. They are still available and you cannot get more mil-specky than the real deal.

$1000 will net you a Colt reproduction of the M1911 or reproduction M1911A1 if you can find one for sale. A grand will also net you a real M1911 with some issues to iron out. Your choice. Own a quality reproduction, or become the custodian of history. Either can be shot or simply fondled.

$500 is the Springfield GI45's territory. It has a slot in the barrel hood for a LCI. The MSH with ILS can be swapped out with a lanyard looped unit from Sarco for under $20. The thumb safety, slide stop, hammer and mag release can easily be swapped out with GI parts. Real GI triggers are still available from Numrich. Real GI Grips are also available for $10 or so. This was my choice. I bought a GI45 for $425 when they first came out, swapped parts, and came up with my own replica for under $500. Unfortunately, the very first GI45s had Springfield's old blocky front strap. I live with it. Some will dispute my wooden grips. The M1911A1s on my ship wore wood. Thus my copy wears wood. See my pic below.

$400 or so will get you a Sistema. These are Colts, built in Argentina according to the 1927 blueprints. Lipseys just broght in the last of them, and they were not in very good condition. Expect to see them clearanced around $250. Rearsenaled sistemas in better condition fetch the $400 tag.

$300-400 is the range for the Auto-Ordnance, Kahr, and Rock Island Armory. I have not owned these pistols and I will not disparage them. Many people like theirs.


My Springer WWII Mil-Spec

 

[mattw]

that one looks really great Xavier. where'd you find your thumb safety?

I am planning on putting together a WW2 replica springfield like yours and I'm putting together the parts right now.

Are the triggers from numrich decent? or are they just stamped copies with shallow checkering?

The only problem I have with springfields is the short grip tang. It sticks out like a sore thumb to me, but no one I know would notice that so i guess its not a big deal.

 

[mattw]

I've ordered a wide spur hammer and trigger from numrich. I found out that they are the stamped ones. I guess the milled, checkered triggers are about impossible to find now.

Anyone know a good place to find a checkered arched MSH with lanyard loop that has less than 20 LPI checkering?