cool45auto
Member
Come on, you guys know Beretta is the king of 9mm hi-cap pistols!
That's what you need!
That's what you need!
Which full-cap nine to celebrate the death of the mag ban?
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10-Ring
Member
Of the bunch, I'd lean towards either the 92fs, USPc 9 or P2000. As a package, the Beretta would have more readily available, "reasonably" priced mags
Schuey2002
Member
Any Glock that will accept G18 mags..
I hate to throw water on everyones hopes for an end to the ban but people often kill the messanger that tells them bad news.
I would encourge everyone to support your favorite pro-gun organization because when the bill is made permanent it will undoubtabley change and it will change for the worse.
The current loophole that allows importation of high cap magazines that were made before the ban will most certainly be closed banning importation of further magazines and if you think paying $135 dollars for a high cap Walther P99 magazine is a lot of money it will probably escalate to double that amount when the new law is signed into effect. Much, much worse could also be put into the new law.
Bush says he favors making the ban permanent and without the presidential support for sunset the law is almost certain to be made permanent and the anti-gun forces will put in all the new bans that they possibly can get away with before it is signed into law.
Although some people do not like the NRA it is, like it or not, the only powerful enough gun lobby to help us try and keep the original law very much as it is and if it does get worse keep it form getting so out of hand we don't all end up having to turn our current high caps in to be melted down with no compensation. It could very well happen if enough support is not thrown behind the NRA , they will need a lot of money to prevent this and worse from happening when the new law is made permanent.
Lets hope I am 100 per cent wrong on all this but I have been fighting these ani-gun battles since I was 14 years old and that was a long , long time ago so I do not make all these statements lightly or with a lack of prior experience.
Lets hope a miracle happens and it does sunset but I would sooner believe I am going to win my states lottery next week than believe we will have that kind of luck and have the bill actually sunset.
I would encourge everyone to support your favorite pro-gun organization because when the bill is made permanent it will undoubtabley change and it will change for the worse.
The current loophole that allows importation of high cap magazines that were made before the ban will most certainly be closed banning importation of further magazines and if you think paying $135 dollars for a high cap Walther P99 magazine is a lot of money it will probably escalate to double that amount when the new law is signed into effect. Much, much worse could also be put into the new law.
Bush says he favors making the ban permanent and without the presidential support for sunset the law is almost certain to be made permanent and the anti-gun forces will put in all the new bans that they possibly can get away with before it is signed into law.
Although some people do not like the NRA it is, like it or not, the only powerful enough gun lobby to help us try and keep the original law very much as it is and if it does get worse keep it form getting so out of hand we don't all end up having to turn our current high caps in to be melted down with no compensation. It could very well happen if enough support is not thrown behind the NRA , they will need a lot of money to prevent this and worse from happening when the new law is made permanent.
Lets hope I am 100 per cent wrong on all this but I have been fighting these ani-gun battles since I was 14 years old and that was a long , long time ago so I do not make all these statements lightly or with a lack of prior experience.
Lets hope a miracle happens and it does sunset but I would sooner believe I am going to win my states lottery next week than believe we will have that kind of luck and have the bill actually sunset.
HBK
member
I've never paid more than 70 for a Walther P-99 hicap. I hope your wrong about the ban.
On a happy note, if it does sunset, you can't go wrong with a Walther P-99.
On a happy note, if it does sunset, you can't go wrong with a Walther P-99.
blades67
Member
I'd get another SIG Sauer and another Glock.
The ban sunsets automatically--it requires no action, legislative or presidential, to sunset. To be extended beyond September next year requires both the House and Senate to vote for and approve it (and of course, the President to sign it).
Frankly, I just don't see the House voting to extend the ban (and they have already voted to repeal it once). So, regardless of what the Senate (and the President--and I have my doubts there) may want, I'd say the chances of it being extended are slim. Representatives are more directly answerable to the voters than either Senators or the President--and they have seen too many of their colleagues become unemployed over an anti-gun stance in the recent four or five elections. The anti-gun platform has proven to be a big loser for the Democrats, and the only die-hard support I see at this time for extending the ban is from those Democratic representatives in truly safe districts--no where near a majority of the House (and maybe not even a majority of the Democrats).
As for George W. Bush's "stance," while disappointing, I see it as more astute politics than anything. By providing token or lukewarm (and totally meaningless) support (token verbal support from a functionary several layers removed from the President), he defuses a potentially hot issue for the Democrats in some contested areas--it is an issue that could cost the Republicans both black and women votes. Without his frontline, hard support ("falling on his sword," so to speak), the chances of the ban being extended are slim to none. So if the ban sunsets, as it seems likely it will at this time, he stands to lose nothing in support from the pro-gun side (and really, to whom would we go anyway--his worst is far, far better than the opposition's best--how many of you are willing to see a Hillary Clinton/Jesse Jackson presidency because you're mad at George W. Bush). I say let the media applaud him just so long as he doesn't start twisting arms in the House--confusion to the Democrats.
(Besides, how many of you are now even more motivated to get off your duffs, write your Representative and support the NRA? The battle will be won in the Committee Rooms and the Floor of the House--NOT in the Oval Office.)
Frankly, I just don't see the House voting to extend the ban (and they have already voted to repeal it once). So, regardless of what the Senate (and the President--and I have my doubts there) may want, I'd say the chances of it being extended are slim. Representatives are more directly answerable to the voters than either Senators or the President--and they have seen too many of their colleagues become unemployed over an anti-gun stance in the recent four or five elections. The anti-gun platform has proven to be a big loser for the Democrats, and the only die-hard support I see at this time for extending the ban is from those Democratic representatives in truly safe districts--no where near a majority of the House (and maybe not even a majority of the Democrats).
As for George W. Bush's "stance," while disappointing, I see it as more astute politics than anything. By providing token or lukewarm (and totally meaningless) support (token verbal support from a functionary several layers removed from the President), he defuses a potentially hot issue for the Democrats in some contested areas--it is an issue that could cost the Republicans both black and women votes. Without his frontline, hard support ("falling on his sword," so to speak), the chances of the ban being extended are slim to none. So if the ban sunsets, as it seems likely it will at this time, he stands to lose nothing in support from the pro-gun side (and really, to whom would we go anyway--his worst is far, far better than the opposition's best--how many of you are willing to see a Hillary Clinton/Jesse Jackson presidency because you're mad at George W. Bush). I say let the media applaud him just so long as he doesn't start twisting arms in the House--confusion to the Democrats.
(Besides, how many of you are now even more motivated to get off your duffs, write your Representative and support the NRA? The battle will be won in the Committee Rooms and the Floor of the House--NOT in the Oval Office.)
isaidme
Member
G19 or BHP
Did you all know ole' Dubya was in favor of the AWB BEFORE he was even elected.
I'm perplexed people don't read more about the people we vote into political office. Of course I still voted for Bush since the other candidate would have almost garunteed more Federal gun laws.
Anyways since I live inside Occupied territory the sunset will mean nothing to me......but it's great having friends in the free states. I'll try and have some P7M13 mags awaiting my escape to freedom some day.
I'm perplexed people don't read more about the people we vote into political office. Of course I still voted for Bush since the other candidate would have almost garunteed more Federal gun laws.
Anyways since I live inside Occupied territory the sunset will mean nothing to me......but it's great having friends in the free states. I'll try and have some P7M13 mags awaiting my escape to freedom some day.
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
I Could Not Vote-
cuz the SIG-Sauer P228 is not on your list!
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
cuz the SIG-Sauer P228 is not on your list!
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
George Hill
Member
DeLay: House Will Not Extend Assault Weapons Ban
AK-47s and 18 Other Semiautomatic Weapons Would Be Legalized
By Jim VandeHei
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, May 13, 2003; 6:00 PM
The Republican-controlled House will not renew the federal ban on Uzis and other semiautomatic weapons, a key leader said today, dealing a significant blow to the campaign to clamp down on gun sales nationwide.
House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas) said most House members are willing to let the ban expire next year. "The votes in the House are not there" to continue the ban, DeLay told reporters.
His spokesman, Stuart Roy, said, "We have no intention of bringing it up" for a vote.
As majority leader, DeLay decides which bills get voted on in the House. Because the 1994 assault weapons ban expires next year, the House and Senate must pass legislation renewing it by Sept. 13, 2004. If Congress fails to act, the AK-47 and 18 other types of semiautomatic weapons that were outlawed by Clinton and a Democratic-controlled Congress a decade ago would be legal again, handing a major victory to the National Rifle Association and other gun-rights groups.
Past votes and an NRA survey of lawmakers before the 2002 elections suggest that a majority of House members oppose the ban's renewal, GOP officials said. But several Republicans, who requested anonymity, said some pro-gun GOP leaders worry that if members are forced into a rollcall vote, they might switch under pressure from gun control advocates.
President Bush, whose support of the assault weapons ban dates to his 2000 campaign, has drawn rebukes from NRA members and some GOP lawmakers on the issue. But several Republicans close to the White House said Bush has no plans to lobby lawmakers aggressively to extend the ban. That would allow him to officially oppose the NRA without completely turning against the powerful gun lobby by fighting hard to maintain a ban on semiautomatic weapons.
"The White House seems to think that the bill will never reach the President's desk," said a recent alert sent to members of the Gun Owners of America, a pro-gun group with close ties to Republicans. "At least that is what top officials are counting on. In pursuing this strategy, they are trying to please both sides and are playing a very dangerous game."
Congressional Republicans said Congress will renew the ban only if Bush publicly and firmly insists. "If the president demands we pass it, that would change the dynamics considerably," said a House GOP leadership aide. "The White House does not want us" to vote.
In a letter to Bush, Rep. Ron Paul (R-Tex.) said: "It is now time for us to stand up against the unconstitutional gun-grabbing and help our nation in this time of great need by allowing law-abiding citizens to use the weapon of their choice."
It's unclear how much pressure Bush and congressional Republicans will be under to bring up the volatile gun issue, especially in the 2004 election year. While many leading Senate and House Democrats are pushing legislation to renew the ban, the issue is not sharply partisan.
Many rural and southern Democrats, including a few who voted for the ban in 1994, oppose its renewal, reflecting a notable shift in the politics of guns during the past decade. An aide to a Senate Democrat who voted for the ban in 1994 and faces reelection next year said many Democrats "hope it never comes up."
The reason for the turnabout is rooted, in part, in the fallout of the 1994 vote and vice president Al Gore's 2000 presidential campaign loss.
In 1994, the Democratic-controlled House and Senate narrowly passed the ban on the sale and possession of 19 semiautomatic, rapid-fire guns and ammunition clips holding more than 10 rounds. Proponents of the ban said those weapons -- and copycat versions that don't fall under the ban -- are frequently used in violent crimes, including the deaths of scores of law enforcement officials. Opponents said the ban violates the constitutional right to bear arms.
The Democratic-controlled House passed the Clinton-backed gun ban by two votes in May 1994. A few months later, House Speaker Thomas Foley (D-Wash.), Judiciary Committee Chairman Jack Brooks (D-Texas) and several other Democrats who supported the ban were voted out of office after the NRA and other gun activists targeted them with a relentless political campaign.
The NRA's power ebbed and flowed throughout the rest of the 1990s, hitting a highwater mark following Gore's narrow loss in 2000. Gore lost pro-gun bastions such as Arkansas, West Virginia and his home state of Tennessee, in part, some Democratic analysts believe, because he was seen as hostile to gun owners. In this year's first debate among Democratic presidential hopefuls, only Al Sharpton vigorously endorsed the registration and licensing of handguns.
Most congressional Democratic leaders and presidential candidates strongly support the assault weapons ban and appear ready to wage a public fight over an issue they believe may pack a political punch with independents and women, in particular. Sens. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) recently introduced legislation that would extend the Clinton gun ban with only minor modifications. If the House rejects the renewal, however, Senate action won't matter.
In the House, Reps. John Conyers (D-Mich.) and Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.) last week introduced a tougher bill that would ban a larger number of guns. "I don't want to put my members in any trouble. But if we actually face this, the American people [will support] keeping assault weapons from going back on the street," said McCarthy.
© 2003 The Washington Post Company
AK-47s and 18 Other Semiautomatic Weapons Would Be Legalized
By Jim VandeHei
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, May 13, 2003; 6:00 PM
The Republican-controlled House will not renew the federal ban on Uzis and other semiautomatic weapons, a key leader said today, dealing a significant blow to the campaign to clamp down on gun sales nationwide.
House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas) said most House members are willing to let the ban expire next year. "The votes in the House are not there" to continue the ban, DeLay told reporters.
His spokesman, Stuart Roy, said, "We have no intention of bringing it up" for a vote.
As majority leader, DeLay decides which bills get voted on in the House. Because the 1994 assault weapons ban expires next year, the House and Senate must pass legislation renewing it by Sept. 13, 2004. If Congress fails to act, the AK-47 and 18 other types of semiautomatic weapons that were outlawed by Clinton and a Democratic-controlled Congress a decade ago would be legal again, handing a major victory to the National Rifle Association and other gun-rights groups.
Past votes and an NRA survey of lawmakers before the 2002 elections suggest that a majority of House members oppose the ban's renewal, GOP officials said. But several Republicans, who requested anonymity, said some pro-gun GOP leaders worry that if members are forced into a rollcall vote, they might switch under pressure from gun control advocates.
President Bush, whose support of the assault weapons ban dates to his 2000 campaign, has drawn rebukes from NRA members and some GOP lawmakers on the issue. But several Republicans close to the White House said Bush has no plans to lobby lawmakers aggressively to extend the ban. That would allow him to officially oppose the NRA without completely turning against the powerful gun lobby by fighting hard to maintain a ban on semiautomatic weapons.
"The White House seems to think that the bill will never reach the President's desk," said a recent alert sent to members of the Gun Owners of America, a pro-gun group with close ties to Republicans. "At least that is what top officials are counting on. In pursuing this strategy, they are trying to please both sides and are playing a very dangerous game."
Congressional Republicans said Congress will renew the ban only if Bush publicly and firmly insists. "If the president demands we pass it, that would change the dynamics considerably," said a House GOP leadership aide. "The White House does not want us" to vote.
In a letter to Bush, Rep. Ron Paul (R-Tex.) said: "It is now time for us to stand up against the unconstitutional gun-grabbing and help our nation in this time of great need by allowing law-abiding citizens to use the weapon of their choice."
It's unclear how much pressure Bush and congressional Republicans will be under to bring up the volatile gun issue, especially in the 2004 election year. While many leading Senate and House Democrats are pushing legislation to renew the ban, the issue is not sharply partisan.
Many rural and southern Democrats, including a few who voted for the ban in 1994, oppose its renewal, reflecting a notable shift in the politics of guns during the past decade. An aide to a Senate Democrat who voted for the ban in 1994 and faces reelection next year said many Democrats "hope it never comes up."
The reason for the turnabout is rooted, in part, in the fallout of the 1994 vote and vice president Al Gore's 2000 presidential campaign loss.
In 1994, the Democratic-controlled House and Senate narrowly passed the ban on the sale and possession of 19 semiautomatic, rapid-fire guns and ammunition clips holding more than 10 rounds. Proponents of the ban said those weapons -- and copycat versions that don't fall under the ban -- are frequently used in violent crimes, including the deaths of scores of law enforcement officials. Opponents said the ban violates the constitutional right to bear arms.
The Democratic-controlled House passed the Clinton-backed gun ban by two votes in May 1994. A few months later, House Speaker Thomas Foley (D-Wash.), Judiciary Committee Chairman Jack Brooks (D-Texas) and several other Democrats who supported the ban were voted out of office after the NRA and other gun activists targeted them with a relentless political campaign.
The NRA's power ebbed and flowed throughout the rest of the 1990s, hitting a highwater mark following Gore's narrow loss in 2000. Gore lost pro-gun bastions such as Arkansas, West Virginia and his home state of Tennessee, in part, some Democratic analysts believe, because he was seen as hostile to gun owners. In this year's first debate among Democratic presidential hopefuls, only Al Sharpton vigorously endorsed the registration and licensing of handguns.
Most congressional Democratic leaders and presidential candidates strongly support the assault weapons ban and appear ready to wage a public fight over an issue they believe may pack a political punch with independents and women, in particular. Sens. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) recently introduced legislation that would extend the Clinton gun ban with only minor modifications. If the House rejects the renewal, however, Senate action won't matter.
In the House, Reps. John Conyers (D-Mich.) and Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.) last week introduced a tougher bill that would ban a larger number of guns. "I don't want to put my members in any trouble. But if we actually face this, the American people [will support] keeping assault weapons from going back on the street," said McCarthy.
© 2003 The Washington Post Company
George Hill
Member
Change my vote to an UZI.
WonderNine
member
Hill, thanks for injecting some reality into this thread.
I swear some of these guy don't want the AWB to end.
I swear some of these guy don't want the AWB to end.
Carlos Cabeza
Member
Yeah its those hi-cap mag manufacturers and importers.
Mike Irwin
Member
Hum...
Given the latest developments, maybe I'll finally invest in a Glock...
A full-capacity 10mm would be quite nice...
Given the latest developments, maybe I'll finally invest in a Glock...
A full-capacity 10mm would be quite nice...
My celebratory toy
Mine will be a CZ-75B with a 16 round magazine, fresh from the factory. Preferably on Sept. 14th 2004, ideally on Sept. 13th, 2004, but definitely before the end of October.
I'm sick and tired of single stacks, and I've refused to buy anything with one of these "Clinton Mags" and that's what they'll be known as in the post Sept 13th 2004 era (so sayeth me). I hope those European manufacturers gear up production and have those magazines waiting for me on the pier cause it'd make my day if I could get one on the 14th. We could make an event out of it, take pictures, throw a party.
-Morgan
Mine will be a CZ-75B with a 16 round magazine, fresh from the factory. Preferably on Sept. 14th 2004, ideally on Sept. 13th, 2004, but definitely before the end of October.
I'm sick and tired of single stacks, and I've refused to buy anything with one of these "Clinton Mags" and that's what they'll be known as in the post Sept 13th 2004 era (so sayeth me). I hope those European manufacturers gear up production and have those magazines waiting for me on the pier cause it'd make my day if I could get one on the 14th. We could make an event out of it, take pictures, throw a party.
-Morgan
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
I'll probably break down and buy my second Glock...Glock 20 and many magazines.
More Uzi magazines...
Stock up on AR15 magazines if the price drops.
Oh, I've got a mildly customized FN P35...why would I need another 9mm? I'll probably get some more magazines for it out of simple paranoia but I've already got ten or so.
More Uzi magazines...
Stock up on AR15 magazines if the price drops.
Oh, I've got a mildly customized FN P35...why would I need another 9mm? I'll probably get some more magazines for it out of simple paranoia but I've already got ten or so.
Beorn
Member
Bloody California!
Where's Glock man?!?
Where's Glock man?!?
Phyphor
Member
Wondernine trolled
"Well that makes sense as Glock 19's are insulting to look at "
Only from the side. From the muzzle, not so much.
"Well that makes sense as Glock 19's are insulting to look at "
Only from the side. From the muzzle, not so much.
No sense in voting for the Beretta, BHP or CZ. Those mags are already a fair price.
Don't care for the p7, mildly interested in the PO, Steyr is too rare for me, already have a p99 and although the ergo's are real nice on the USPc, if I'm gonna spend that much I want a nicer trigger
So the winner is ...... Browning BDM. I think the lack of hi cap mags really did this one in. 15 rounds in a deliciously slim grip. I'm salivating already.
(I voted for the USPc, the trigger is not THAT bad, and I really like ambi mag releases!!!! The BDM is in the same boat as the steyr)
Now the real question is .... Will the IDPA allow full cap mags back in? Let's see those CDP guys handle 18 round friendly courses now
/evil laugh on/ ehehehehehehhhehhehhehhehhe /evil laugh off/
Edited as I spell about as bad as I shoot
Don't care for the p7, mildly interested in the PO, Steyr is too rare for me, already have a p99 and although the ergo's are real nice on the USPc, if I'm gonna spend that much I want a nicer trigger
So the winner is ...... Browning BDM. I think the lack of hi cap mags really did this one in. 15 rounds in a deliciously slim grip. I'm salivating already.
(I voted for the USPc, the trigger is not THAT bad, and I really like ambi mag releases!!!! The BDM is in the same boat as the steyr)
Now the real question is .... Will the IDPA allow full cap mags back in? Let's see those CDP guys handle 18 round friendly courses now
/evil laugh on/ ehehehehehehhhehhehhehhehhe /evil laugh off/
Edited as I spell about as bad as I shoot
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
Well,
That depends. I've got a couple of G20 full capacity magazines that I paid $75 each for. And one I paid a hundred for.
I've got a select fire Uzi that I've got $975 invested. I could sell it for around $3000.
I've got a HK 91 that I paid $1100 for. I could sell it for around $2K.
It wouldn't bother me a bit if the relevant laws were repealed and these firearms were suddenly selling for what they are actually worth.
Consider: I could then buy a FN Model D BAR for about $900 including the tax stamp...as opposed to $20K now.
I'll take it.
Anybody that is banking on these prices that are based on these laws...is basically sleeping with the enemy.
That depends. I've got a couple of G20 full capacity magazines that I paid $75 each for. And one I paid a hundred for.
I've got a select fire Uzi that I've got $975 invested. I could sell it for around $3000.
I've got a HK 91 that I paid $1100 for. I could sell it for around $2K.
It wouldn't bother me a bit if the relevant laws were repealed and these firearms were suddenly selling for what they are actually worth.
Consider: I could then buy a FN Model D BAR for about $900 including the tax stamp...as opposed to $20K now.
I'll take it.
Anybody that is banking on these prices that are based on these laws...is basically sleeping with the enemy.
stevelyn
Member
Out of all the pistols on the list I like the BHP the best (I have one). However I voted for the Para-Ordnance P-18. The reason being is that a search through Shotgun News will show BHP mags are available for a song and they are plentiful.
Now a Para on the otherhand, a honkin' 18 shot full size pistol, manufactured in a socialist country bent on outlawing it's own citizens from bearing arms, is a big slap in the face to antis everywhere. It's the ideal pistol to celebrate with. Especially since it hasn't been available here with it's full cap mags.
Now a Para on the otherhand, a honkin' 18 shot full size pistol, manufactured in a socialist country bent on outlawing it's own citizens from bearing arms, is a big slap in the face to antis everywhere. It's the ideal pistol to celebrate with. Especially since it hasn't been available here with it's full cap mags.
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