Which Gun For Below Zero?

[phorvick]

I had 5 participants today in the ND Permit test that I give. We just finished shooting the proficiency test outside...and the temp is at -9. But, it is sunny and really not bad shooting weather since there was no wind.

All shooters passed. The gun's performance was interesting. Two were using Springfield 1911 MilSpec .45's; they performed fine in the cold. Two used Glocks...and of course worked fine; one had a really nice Browning Buckmark .22 (for the ND test you do not need to qualify with the gun you will carry.) The format is load 5, shoot 5; load 5 shoot 5. The first 5 were fine; but the cold must have caused a problem as the next five the slide would not cycle properly. Took quite a while to get the shots off. But, all worked out.

After all the paperwork was done, a few of us loaded up several magazines in the warmth of inside and then went back out and shot for about 30 minutes. My that is invigorating in the cold!

 

[BruceB]

I've had some experience with guns in the cold, having lived in Canada's Northwest Territories for 35 years as well as serving a stint with the Canadian Army ( back when the C1 FAL, Sterling SMG and Browning Hipower were the issue weapons....all fine guns). During my time in the NWT I worked and lived in the bush and Barrens in tent camps year-round in temps into the sixty-below-zero range, although more-typical winter temperatures were in the -30 to -40 area. We worked and hunted on days where the temp was down to maybe -35, depending on the wind....below that was too miserable and dangerous.

As a genuine gun-nut, I used rifles and handguns of wildly varied sorts, including most of the common military rifles and bolt-action sporters. I used NO LUBE WHATSOEVER for best results. Once a rifle was cold, it stayed cold until the need for it was over. If it's necessary to bring the rifle into the warm living quarters, keep it in a case to allow it to warm gradually to room temperature, and the condensation will be greatly reduced due to limited contact with the warm, high-humidity air.

I normally keep large-capacity mags loaded only to 90% capacity for long-term (loaded) service, but on one occasion I had some 40-round Sterling-made steel mags for my 5.56mm AR-180 rifles and wanted to give them a sort of "endurance test". Loading a full forty rounds into each of two mags, I left them in that condition for six months. On a brisk -40 morning I placed a bone-dry unlubed AR-180 on the hood of a truck to cold-soak for several hours along with two of the loaded mags. Result: the rifle gobbled up all 80 rounds with perfect function.

For the very limited number of rounds which are likely to be needed, I didn't worry about the miniscule amount of "wear" inflicted on my non-lubricated Garands, FALs or (REAL) M-14s. Even the M-1 carbine with its limited mass of moving parts works fine like this. Bolt actions just need complete lube removal from the INSIDE of the bolt and the trigger, as well as the receiver, to be reliable in the cold.

As mentioned here earlier, handguns were carried under clothing where body heat keeps them functional, and also free of "condensation", since the gun was warm enough to prevent the formation of moisture. I degreased them too, in case the gun had to be exposed for more than a few minutes.

I must say that I do NOT miss the extreme cold.....Nevada is a whole lot kinder to my aging bones.

 

[CGofMP]

None too safe in my opinion... and nothign to do with lubrication. Extra credit for those of you who already know what this is.

 

[nhhillbilly]

Cold weather trigger for a M1 Grand

 

[Cosmoline]

My experiences in Alaska have draw me towards firearms with fewer parts and lots of slop. Deep cold isn't as big a problem in my experience as freezing rain conditions. I'd go with the AK-47 action for semis or the Mauser or Mosin action for bolts. Very simple, few moving parts, lots of steel and wood. I'd stay away from plastic guns. I would also think simple blow-back semis would perform well. For lube, less is more. I avoid all grease, as it tends to gum up in the deep cold. Instead I use CLP, which does just fine in all temps and doesn't leave enough film to get cloggy.

 

[OrvilleYertleson]

http://www.streetpro.com/usp/torture.html

That's a link for the above picture of the frozen HK USP.

That website discusses a lot of the testing that has been done on the USP. I am confident that it is one of the better choices for any environment, and will, at the very least, function reliably.

 

[sm]

I live in the South ...it does get below freezing here. Granted not to the extremes some of you are exposed to.

I am a big believer in Zippo Lighter Fluid. Degreased many a firing pin. The tin can doesn''t break in freezing temps like the plastic lighter fluid containers do...left in a duck blind for the next guy who has a gun go "click" instead of "bang".

Nylon 66 , always worked, no lube needed. Ditto for the Marlin 60 .

Bolt and lever action rifles worked, as did pump shotguns.

I did heed the warning mete and others pointed out, "cold rooms" , leaving the guns outside, etc.

Didn't have the fancy lubes or spray cans so popular back growing up. Not as concerned with wear as I was the gun going bang. Lubed many a gun with lighter fluid only - or the faintest film of ATF.

 

[shep854]

In extreme cold, would an auto be more reliable than a revolver? I would think so, since it seems that the cylinder could freeze up more easily than a slide.

What say?

 

[mete]

Ask the folks from Minnesota since it was -54 F there yesterday !!!!

 

[sm]

-54 ??

I don't think our Temp gauges go that low here in AR.

I think I'd just have sit on the stove, amidst the logs in the fireplace or something...Brrr...just thinking about that much cold.

 

[CAS700850]

If I remember correctly, Chuch Taylor did some extreme cold weather handgun testing several years back, with a variety of handguns. As I recall, the test involved shooting until empty, then dropping the gun in a snow bank. Three guns passed: Smith Model 27, Colt 1911-A1, Glock 17.

Personally, my cold weather gun varies a bit, depending upon the gloves I'm wearing. When it is really cold, and I have on the heavy gloves, I like my Sig Sauer 239. It's got the biggest trigger guard among my guns.

 

[Freedomv]

Any "sub-machinegun" should work.

We don't hear that term much anymore.

Vern

 

[shep854]

IRC, the High-Power passed Chuck Taylor's cold weather test as well.

 

[MAG-63]

We had -6F here on December 24th. An old Army buddy home on leave came over and brought his WWII Ithaca 1911A1 and a G19. I took my Colt Officer's ACP and we headed outdoors with 300 rounds of ball and 230g lrn. Outside temp was 0 when we were finished shooting. Had no problems at all. The Ithaca was lubed with Rem Oil, and just for grins, I had the Officer's ACP lubed with old-fashioned Hoppe's gun oil. By the way, the Glock performed 100% too through the 100rds we fired. No real surprise there. The interesting thing was how well the guns performed without using any of the modern "super lubes" like FP-10, Militec, or TW-25.

 

[Warbow]

M2 Carbine:

What brand of grease did you use? I've read accounts of people who say their greased pistols wouldn't function because the grease got so viscous in the cold the slide would just stay back.

I've been using TW-25B from Mil-Comm. It says the temperature range is -90 to 450 degrees F -- I guess I should test it out sometime with the freezer.

 

[Cosmoline]

Updated: 8:54 AM AKST on January 19, 2005
Observed at Willow, Alaska (History)
Elevation: 220 ft / 67 m
-33 °F / -36 °C
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Looks like its time to do some more testing