10-Ring
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That subject line pretty much asks it all...but I was just wondering which one is easier to shoot & shoot well 
Personally, I like j frame wheelguns vs. tiny semis
Personally, I like j frame wheelguns vs. tiny semis
Which is easier to shoot, small wheelguns or sub compact semis?
- Thread starter 10-Ring
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M2 Carbine
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Personaly I don't see any difference in any gun.
Whatever the gun, get a good grip, maintain the sight picture, squeeze the trigger until the gun fires and the bullet has to hit pretty close to where you want it to.
Whatever the gun, get a good grip, maintain the sight picture, squeeze the trigger until the gun fires and the bullet has to hit pretty close to where you want it to.
huntershooter
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A "J" frame S&W is harder to shoot accurately and rapidly than any other handgun. If not an "experts" gun, it certainly demands constant practice. While "dry fire" helps, I find live fire to be crucial with a "J" frame. I have NEVER understood why this revolver is frequently recommended as a first gun for women.
huntershoter>"NEVER understood why this revolver is frequently recommended as a first gun for women."
Got to agree wholeheartedly with you on that. I've argued with a number of people about the same thing. Not my idea of a fun gun and not a good first gun for anyone. They're easy to conceal but as far as I'm concerned, a last chance, up close defence gun.
Got to agree wholeheartedly with you on that. I've argued with a number of people about the same thing. Not my idea of a fun gun and not a good first gun for anyone. They're easy to conceal but as far as I'm concerned, a last chance, up close defence gun.
The difficulty of shooting a J-frame is very dependent on the grips. I've found older guns with original magna grips almost impossible to hold onto, but there are several varieties of grips available that can make shooting these guns pleasant (at least when shooting 38 special). Pachmeyer Compacs are one of my favorites.
jad0110
Member
I think it pretty much depends on each individual.
I've actually never fired a tiny "pocket auto". Not sure how I've managed that! But for me, since I shoot my little J Frame 642 as well or slightly better than my Springfield XD9 Service, I would have to assume that I can shoot a J frame better than something like a Keltec, Khar, or NAA Gaurdian.
An airweight or airlite snub for ANYONE'S first gun is probably not the wisest idea, unless it is something with a little more heft like a K Frame S&W like a 2.5" Model 19.
I've actually never fired a tiny "pocket auto". Not sure how I've managed that! But for me, since I shoot my little J Frame 642 as well or slightly better than my Springfield XD9 Service, I would have to assume that I can shoot a J frame better than something like a Keltec, Khar, or NAA Gaurdian.
An airweight or airlite snub for ANYONE'S first gun is probably not the wisest idea, unless it is something with a little more heft like a K Frame S&W like a 2.5" Model 19.
Ringer
Member
For ME, no comparison. I shoot my PM-9 very well especially out to say 15 yards. My SP101 on the other hand, not so well. As much as I like wheelguns (and as much money I have spent on this one) I'd like to carry it more often. I'm just not as confident in my shooting ability and have to practice a lot more often with it. It's the double action shooting I can't seem to be able to master. Unfortunately my SP101 has been moved from the handgun/everday use safe to the main safe downstairs .
.outofbattery
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I shoot my J frame about as well as I shoot my Seecamp.I shoot both of them to expectations of real world self defense scenarios but compared to say my SIG .380,they're both quite difficult to shoot well.
MCgunner
Member
Shoot either about equally. The little Kel Tec P11 is a lot more pleasant to shoot than any pocket sized .357 magnum, but no better or worse than my .38. Has more punch and more firepower, though. They're both pretty accurate, under the standard of 4" at 25 yards that most 'Zines seem to put on a service handgun. My snub shoots slightly better than my 9, but only by about a half inch.
When in doubt, when I'm heading out the door, I'll go with the power and firepower of the 9. Besides, it's a little easier to pocket than a J frame snub.
When in doubt, when I'm heading out the door, I'll go with the power and firepower of the 9. Besides, it's a little easier to pocket than a J frame snub.
Golddog
Member
Depends on the semi. While I often carry a Smith Model 60 in .357, the coiled mainspring makes the DA trigger a lot less user friendly than a K or L frame. My 60 wears Pachmayr Compacs, which makes the gun more shootable than the usual boot grips, but they also make it larger.
Many small semis, usually in .380, have more recoil than bigger guns if they depend on a blowback mechanism rather than some sort of link system. Small 1911's are handy and easy to shoot well, but their reliability is dubious. Double action semis usually have a crappy first shot trigger pull, worse than a J frame's.
The upshot: Get a small Kahr, Glock, XD, or Smith M&P in 9mm. They're easier to shoot well than a J, likely to be more reliable than a baby 1911, and have better trigger pulls than TDA or standard DAO guns. They carry more rounds than a J, too. While they're blockier than a J, in a proper holster that probably won't matter much.
So why do I carry a J? They'll ride well enough in a pocket, unlike the above semis. If I use to a holster, I'll step up to a 3" K frame because they're so much easier to shoot well. However, the Smith M&P Compact is starting to call to me. Based on what I've read, their triggers and ergonomics put them ahead of the other polymer guns (Kahrs are too small for my hands), and they're a lot lighter than my favorite auto - the CZ 75B.
Many small semis, usually in .380, have more recoil than bigger guns if they depend on a blowback mechanism rather than some sort of link system. Small 1911's are handy and easy to shoot well, but their reliability is dubious. Double action semis usually have a crappy first shot trigger pull, worse than a J frame's.
The upshot: Get a small Kahr, Glock, XD, or Smith M&P in 9mm. They're easier to shoot well than a J, likely to be more reliable than a baby 1911, and have better trigger pulls than TDA or standard DAO guns. They carry more rounds than a J, too. While they're blockier than a J, in a proper holster that probably won't matter much.
So why do I carry a J? They'll ride well enough in a pocket, unlike the above semis. If I use to a holster, I'll step up to a 3" K frame because they're so much easier to shoot well. However, the Smith M&P Compact is starting to call to me. Based on what I've read, their triggers and ergonomics put them ahead of the other polymer guns (Kahrs are too small for my hands), and they're a lot lighter than my favorite auto - the CZ 75B.
TOADMAN
Member
Real World Self Defense & lots of stress involved: about the same - most likely shooting at the BG within bad breath range out to about ten feet. Range shooting, little to no stress involved: Greater than ten feet, IMO, the subcompact (Glock26) is easier to shoot accurate over the DAO J-frame, S&W 642/442.
I shoot small autos much better than I shoot j-frame revolvers.
However...I can shoot Taurus small frame revolvers pretty well, but the recoil is painful.
I think alot of this relates to how each handgun fits your hand.
-David
However...I can shoot Taurus small frame revolvers pretty well, but the recoil is painful.
I think alot of this relates to how each handgun fits your hand.
-David
RNB65
Member
I'll take a small semi-auto such as a Kahr or Glock 26 over a revolver any day. More rounds and easier to control.
Jkwas
Member
The small frame revolvers aren't really range guns as far as I'm concerned. Neither are the small .380's for that matter. Many will disagree. Many will post their targets showing phenomenal accuracy at 100yds with ++++p ammunition. My wife and I both carry and practice with small frame revolvers for one purpose. For us it's the fastest gun to pull from concealment and put into action in a bad situation. After 50rnds at the range my hand starts to show signs of abuse, but the odds of that gun having to shoot more than 5 rounds are pretty low. They aren't for protracted gun fights, they're "give you enough time to run away" guns. When we shoot for fun, we use full size weapons.
Matt Dillon
Member
That's why I've gone to carrying a CZ 83 in .380 ACP. I love my little 442 with Crimon Trace laser grips, and shoot it marginally well, but not as well as a semi automatic. The heavy DA trigger and the sights make me feel less confident with the J frame for shots that would be over 10 feet away. I wouldn't feel confident taking a head shot with the J Frame.
The CZ 83, on the other hand, is much heavier, but holds 14 rounds and has a great trigger.
The CZ 83, on the other hand, is much heavier, but holds 14 rounds and has a great trigger.
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
Little itty bitty guns are generally harder to shoot than their midsize and fullsize stable mates.
They have short sight radii, vestigial sights, awkward grips, and due to the need to pack so much mechanical energy into a tiny space, stiff springs.
Probably the easiest small gun to shoot well in that category are the kel-tecs, followed closely by the j-frames.
And as a couple of people remarked, as a community, we really have to stop pointing n00bs towards snubbies as their first gun. They are indeed for the proficient.
They have short sight radii, vestigial sights, awkward grips, and due to the need to pack so much mechanical energy into a tiny space, stiff springs.
Probably the easiest small gun to shoot well in that category are the kel-tecs, followed closely by the j-frames.
And as a couple of people remarked, as a community, we really have to stop pointing n00bs towards snubbies as their first gun. They are indeed for the proficient.
glockman19
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Between my G26 and my S&W 442 & 642 I shoot much better with the G26. Since adding the Crimson Trace laser grips to my 642 I have been much more accurate, yet it is punishing to my hand after 50-100 rounds. That said, the G26 is much more forgiving and accurate without lasergrips and just the night sights. I can shoot 200+ rounds and have a shooting hand that feels ready to shoot more. The upside to the smaller J-frame is that I have began, because of the hand thing, to shoot much better with my off-hand, because I have switched hands after they begin to hurt, after 75-100 rounds. In a SD situation you never know what hand you'll have to use so I look at is as a benefit nonetheless.
Desk Jockey
Member
I have a K-frame S&W model 19-7 with 2.5" barrel. I like to shoot 158-grain .357 factory loads using double-action trigger pulls.
I also have a Kahr MK9. I like to shoot 115-grain (not +P) factory loads.
At 7 yards, I'm a little more accurate with the K-frame, but I tend to take longer between shots. The MK-9 just seems easier to fire faster, but isn't quite as accurate in my hands. But we're talking about 2-inch groups versus 4-inch groups, so either is acceptable to me. Suppose I really should just slow down a bit to improve accuracy with the Kahr. I think that my timing difference is due to trigger pull, or maybe just because the .357 is new to me.
I don't feel much difference in recoil with either one. The .357 is certainly louder, though.
I also have a Kahr MK9. I like to shoot 115-grain (not +P) factory loads.
At 7 yards, I'm a little more accurate with the K-frame, but I tend to take longer between shots. The MK-9 just seems easier to fire faster, but isn't quite as accurate in my hands. But we're talking about 2-inch groups versus 4-inch groups, so either is acceptable to me. Suppose I really should just slow down a bit to improve accuracy with the Kahr. I think that my timing difference is due to trigger pull, or maybe just because the .357 is new to me.
I don't feel much difference in recoil with either one. The .357 is certainly louder, though.
22-rimfire
Member
I know it's fun to shoot, but how good do you really need to be with essentially a belly gun? If I can consistantly hit a pie plate at 7 yds with either a small semi-auto or J-frame, I'm happy. I don't ask for or need more. With other guns, I'm a bit more demanding and it requires practice. I shoot my Glock 23 well out to 25 yds and my revolvers (Trooper Mark III 357, Model 57) out to 50 yds pretty well. But I usually don't shoot past 25 yds except with the 41 mag.
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
Toss Up
as I shoot both equally well~!
as I shoot both equally well~!
Lou22
Member
Between my 14oz PM9 and my 24oz Taurus 905 snubbie (both 9mm), the PM9 is much nicer to shoot in that perceived recoil is milder. I think I could shoot the Taurus as well as the Kahr, but I like +P and +P+ ammo for self defense, and shooting more than a cylinder of those in the Taurus is downright painful. so I don't do much range time with it, and the PM9 is my "most of the time" carry gun. I believe its polymer frame and locked-breech action soak up a lot of the recoil.
Lou
Lou
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ChristopherG
Member
I carry a j-frame in my pocket, and probably the most important reason is that it pocket carries--for me--better than any auto in its power class (i.e., it's a .38; it would be easier to pocket a .32 or maybe a .380, but not as easy to pocket anything out there in 9mm or above; I know because I tried them all [except Rorbaugh, which was not available when I made this decision]).
I like the j-frame and am very comfortable with it as a short-range or backup weapon. I have shot a G26, and consider it to have a greater practical range, for me. This is true though I have put 10 or maybe 20 bullets through revolvers for every bullet I've put through a semi.
A heavy double action revolver trigger (and j-frame triggers are irreducibly heavier than larger framed guns) combined with a small, light gun and short sight radius makes for a gun that is very difficult to shoot accurately. The G26 beats the j-frame on all three counts; lighter trigger, heavier gun (than my j-frame, which weighs 12.5 oz) and longer sight radius. Adds up to greater practical accuracy and range, for me; with practice, I'd argue it'd be the same for virtually anyone, probly with anything from about a PM9 on up, sizewise. Wouldn't make the same bet for a Kel-tec P32 or P3AT.
I like the j-frame and am very comfortable with it as a short-range or backup weapon. I have shot a G26, and consider it to have a greater practical range, for me. This is true though I have put 10 or maybe 20 bullets through revolvers for every bullet I've put through a semi.
A heavy double action revolver trigger (and j-frame triggers are irreducibly heavier than larger framed guns) combined with a small, light gun and short sight radius makes for a gun that is very difficult to shoot accurately. The G26 beats the j-frame on all three counts; lighter trigger, heavier gun (than my j-frame, which weighs 12.5 oz) and longer sight radius. Adds up to greater practical accuracy and range, for me; with practice, I'd argue it'd be the same for virtually anyone, probly with anything from about a PM9 on up, sizewise. Wouldn't make the same bet for a Kel-tec P32 or P3AT.
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