Which Lever Action in Which Chambering

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Scrumbag

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Morning THR,

Hope this finds everyone well. My local club has access to a gallery rife range for shooting "pistol calibre" lever action rifles and I'd like to do a little more of this so am thinking about getting a lever action.

Now, I'd also like to use this lever action for hunting.

In England we have the following laws on what we can use for hunting:

For Muntjac and Chinese Water deer only -
calibre > .220"
muzzle energy > 1000 foot pounds
Bullet weight > 50 grains

For all deer of any species – calibre > .240
muzzle energy > 1,700 foot pounds

Unfortunately for range work I can't use .30-30, .444 Marlin, 45-70 or the .450M

So, I'm basically trying to chose a suitable lever action in .357, .44Mag or .45 Colt.

What say you folks? Which model and which chambering?

ATB,

Scrummy
 
Model 92. based on John Browning design, in 357 cal. Can also use 38 cal. Can load "mild to wild" and can kill any deer at reasonable distances. JMHO Bob
 
A friend of mine has a Henry Big Boy in .357 and he loves it it will shoot .38's and .357's so you have a lot of ammunition choices available . I have a Henry in .22 and im happy with it ,I also own a marlin in .30-30 and I can say that is a good gun as well.I do not know how good the newer marlins are ,I have heard of quality issues after a takeover / merger with Remington .
 
Depends some on ammo availability and price for you there. Before the ammo scare here .38 was cheap and plentiful so that was my choice. Mild .38's up to very hot .357's. Fine on deer with a well placed shot.

.44 would be my next choice since you can also get .44SPC ammo for milder times.

45LC is a fine option but usually the most expensive of the options and there isn't a "junior" round for it. I like it but it would be my last choice.

Best for you to look at a load you would likely use/can get and be sure to pull the specs for it out of a rifle barrel to answer your energy question. Dedicated rifle hunting loads is what you want to check.
 
Scrumbag said:
For all deer of any species – calibre > .240
muzzle energy > 1,700 foot pounds

Unfortunately for range work I can't use .30-30, .444 Marlin, 45-70 or the .450M

So, I'm basically trying to chose a suitable lever action in .357, .44Mag or .45 Colt.
Click to expand...


The .357mag is likely out as an all-deer cartridge. Buffalo Bore 180gr .357mag is what I think about when I think "deer" and ".357mag". It's advertised at 1851fps out of an 18.5" Marlin 1894. According to my calculations, that's 1,368 ft-lbs, below the 1,700 minimum.

Buffalo Bore's .44mag (305 and 270gr) easily makes the minimum power requirement out of an 1894 at 2,141 and 1,945 ft-lbs, respectively.

I don't think you'd have trouble making >1,700 ft-lbs with the .45 Colt, either.
 
1700 ft-lb is insane...might have to go. 454 Cassull for that if you can't get hot loads like Buffalo Bore

.357 is a no go
 
Last edited:
Yes,

1,700 ftlbs is a lot.

And it is for everything from roe deer (~60lbs) to red stags.

I'm wondering if I can't just get 45 Colt for work for Muntjac and leave it with that.

Quite fancy a Winchester 94AE... Any thoughts on that vs the Marlin?
 
Lots has changed with the Marlins and Winchesters over the years. If you can get a Winchester made before '64 they are very nice, later ones less so.

Marlin has gone through phases, lately they had some QC issues when they moved their plant and became part of Remington.

So, in the end I would have to see the 2 rifles to be able to really compare them. Some Marlins I would take over a Winchester and vis-versa depending on the year made, etc.

I would check and make sure the ammo you're looking at is approved for Winchesters. Some of the really HOT stuff I don't think is.
 
Wow, 1,700 ft/lbs.

I would go with .44 mag just because you'll be more likely to find factory ammo that meets the muzzle energy requirement.

How difficult is it to obtain specialty ammo in the UK? In theory, you could buy a few boxes of expensive, hot loaded ammo for hunting and use cheaper, lighter stuff for fun at the range.

As for platform. A pre-2005 Marlin 1894 would be a good choice and I've been reading that the Rossi 1892 clones are often a bit rough, but more than reliable enough for hunting.
 
Lever action rifles are available in 454 Cassull and 500 S&W. The 454 has the advantage of shooting milder 45 Colt loads, no such luck on the 500 without handloading. If I recall correctly, Rossi/Taurus produces the 454 while I think Turnbull makes the 500.
 
Looking at the Hodgdon reloading data I'm not seeing a lot of options for loads that hit 1700 ft-lbs. So while it may be OK for the smaller deer category you're going to have a hard time hitting the 1700 minimum.
 
The site loaddata.com (which is maintained by Wolf Publishing) has some fairly hot .44 mag loads for long guns that will break the 1,700 ft/lb mark at the muzzle. You would still have to check the loads over a chronograph to make sure you were getting the appropriate velocity/energy out of an individual gun.

The other thing I wonder is if a conservation officer (or whatever the UK equivalent is) would believe a hunter's handloads meet the energy requirements.

Personally, I wish fish and wildlife departments everywhere would stop using energy figures alone to determine what cartridges are sufficient for medium and large game. Within its effective range, a round like the .44 mag makes up for comparatively low energy figures with projectile diameter. There's more to a deer kill than math.
 
Fella's;

I used the current Speer manual and the JBM Ballistics website. Using a 300 grain bullet, posited for a .454 Casull, and launching it a 1600 fps, presumably from a Rossi Puma 92 in .454, it calculated to 1728 ft. lbs. of energy at the muzzle.

I strongly suspect that may very well be beyond the Puma's safety limit.

Another option may be the Marlin 336 lever gun in .45-70. Yes, it's primarily a considered a rifle round, but, it can be found in some pistols. There you can get a 300 grain bullet departing the barrel at 1600 fps at 1728 ft. lbs. as well. And that shouldn't be too hard to do. Since the Marlin is built a bit stouter than the Rossi, I'd think it'd be perfectly safe also.

However, I'll also add that lever guns aren't my forte. The numbers calculate, but I'd certainly check around before loading a bunch up & going shooting.

900F
 
Since I don't like straight wall cases in rifles. So I would go w the 44-40 in a lever. If it is available to you. mine is very accurate at 100 yrds,
 
Bush wackers for the UK.

I don't know if it fits your laws but a Handirifle from H&R can be had in 357,44,45, and 500 S&W. The 357 can be reamed to 357 Maximum which is a pistol cartridge.
 
Since Red Deer are absolutely huge (500 pounds), I assume the 1700 ft/lb requirement is based on the biggest of those, somewhere around 550-ish pounds on the hoof.
.44 mag from an 18inch barrel will take them cleanly. So with heavy .357 magnum.
I would go with the 92 action, simply because it's soooo nice and smoth, and at .44 and .357 ranges, a scope mounting will be moot, so top eject isn't an issue.
Good sights (Skinner Sights or similar) and hot ammo, and Bob's your uncle.
 
I accidentally hit the unsuscribe spot on my screen so maybe this will get me back on after my sad display of touch screen marksmanship. I am curious if you guys in Blighty can use single shots.
 
The only round that meets all requirements is 44 mag. No Brainer.
 
Scrumbag: I have and I shoot, all three 357MAG, 45LC, 44MAG in Lever action rifles and Single action pistols as well. But I find my self using my old 45LC`s both Pistols & Rifles more than the other two. And I can`t really say one is more accruate than the other two. But I was raised in OK,KS,and MO and the old men that tought me to shoot, shot 45LC`s mostly. And the 45LC has always been my favorite. And it has worked well for me on all the Pigs & Deer I have shot over the years. I sure would have liked to have got to have hunted in Your Country, I understand the land is so lush and green. It can get pretty hot,dry and brown where I have always lived, especially in the mid to late summer. Good Luck To You.
ken
 
For Muntjac and Chinese Water deer only -
calibre > .220"
muzzle energy > 1000 foot pounds
Bullet weight > 50 grains

For all deer of any species – calibre > .240
muzzle energy > 1,700 foot pounds
Click to expand...
Not even the .44 Magnum will meet the 1,700 foot pounds muzzle energy requirement. Remington cites a muzzle energy of only 1,214 foot pounds from a 20-inch carbine barrel.

http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.44-magnum.html
 
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