Which model would be considered Sig-Sauer's "Flagship" pistol?

[MedWheeler]

Only had to read to post two, to see what I thought of before I even opened the thread.

I've always considered the flagship of anything to be pretty much its leading representative. I never would have figured a Toyota Supra to be a "flagship" for the brand; that would have been, to me at least, the Camry, since it pretty much was the embodiment of the company as a whole. The "flagship" should be at least partially capable of the duties of most, if not all, of the other members, instead of being more of a niche player.

 

[9mmepiphany]

That is along the lines of my thinking also. The gun you think of when someone says the brand name...or the other way around, when you see it you immediately connect it to the correct brand.

For me the most immediately recognizable SIG is the 220/226...unless the see the larger grip or the bore , they're hard to tell apart.

The 320 doesn't yet have that level of recognition, the 210 never did

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

220 or 226....

That's a tough call.

I'll take one of each please.

This.

Though, I submit that the 226 took over as flagship from the very excellent 220 somewhere shortly after it's introduction

 

[Old Dog]

That’s not what "flagship" means. Flagships aren’t the most numerous vessels in a fleet. That’s the OPPOSITE of a flagship.

View attachment 900674

I love an Inigo Montoya reference, even if it's a meme, in any thread ... but, according to Merrium-Webster, a flagship is the most important, impressive, largest or finest example of something in a chain, series or group.

My opinion is that the term is typically used to denote the most recognizable or representative example ... So I stand by my answer of the P-226.

 

[entropy]

So, by the prevailing (in this thread) definition, the Arleigh Burke Class would the the USN's flagship class. Yet, I think the Nimitz/Ford carriers probably hold that honor. (looks like Merriam/Webster agrees) When we want to 'show the flag' we send a carrier, though several Arleigh Burkes go with it.

I'd say the Ford Raptor would be their 'flagship' pickup. (My personal vote would be the King Ranch F350)

And the SIG P210 would be the flagship pistol.

 

[stillquietvoice]

220 or 226....

That's a tough call.

I'll take one of each please.

Just one of each. Maybe one for each hand.

 

[crestoncowboy]

If using the definition of flagship as "finest" then definately the 210. But using the definition of "most important/recognizable" I'd say the 210 is pretty low on the list. If the 210 completely went away 50 years ago and never existed after that then sig would be fine and lose no money as a corporation. If the 220/226 went away then sig would be a different company altogether if at all. Also why I said the 320/M17-18 series will be (if not already) the flagship since the government contract is likely deemed "most important" by Sig. I'd take a 210 over a 226/220, and a 226/220 over a 320 personally. Oddly I shoot a 229 more than I use my 226 or 220 and my 320s are pretty much safe queens. Just like the 92 would be Beretta's flagship now, pre 1980 it wouldn't have been.the "most important" definition would change periodically. As far as Glock.....I cant see how they would have a flagship. That's like asking Volkswagen what their flagship was in 1949. They all looked the same and nothing "fine " in sight. I Carry a 27 and own numerous Glocks. Just stating my opinions though

Using the "finest" definition then my neighbors GT would easily trump our F350 or any of my Mustangs no doubt. Using the recognizable definition then it does not. Most people look over and see the GT and say wow he has a Ferrari, so to most the new GT isnt recognizable at all. When he first got it I had to do a double take and I follow the auto industry. In person and with the spoiler folded down it looks different than it did in the magazines.

I dont think any answer could be wrong amongst those given. Not until some A-hole mentions the mosquito at least.

 

[wagonburner]

P210

Flagship does not mean the most numerous, it means the best and the most exclusive. The flagship is the ship the highest ranking officer of the fleet would sail on.

 

[5-SHOTS]

P226 for me.
In my opinion the Glock flagship is the 17 not the 19.

 

[ATLDave]

You guys are killing me with this nonsense. Think of the Japanese military in World War II. What comes to mind? Kamikazes? Zeros and carrier-launched torpedo- and dive-bombers planes (attacking Pearl Harbor)? Fanatics in caves? OK. Now, what was Japan's flagship during WWII? It alternated between the Yamato and the Musashi - the two largest battleships ever built. There were a grand total of two of them. There were thousands and thousands of Zeroes. There were hundreds of destroyers. There were dozens of cruisers. But here are the two flagships:



Not the most numerous. Not the most representative. The most capable/impressive. That's what flagship means in any discussion of what type is the "flagship." Period.

"Maybe it's different in firearms" you say? Well, let's look at what SIG themselves have to say about what they think is currently their "flagship."

P320 XFIVE LEGION
The new flagship of the P320 platform brings the perfect balance of added weight and features that results in one of the best shooting pistols in the market.

https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p320-xfive-legion.html​

That's right. Not the M17 that they're selling by the container-full to the military. Not the base P320 that is a big seller, nor a compact version. Their most up-featured gun. The one that most people won't buy. The one that most casual shooting people won't have heard of.

P.S. Yes, I'm aware that I'm probably getting a little cranky from the self-isolation. Forgive any excess heat in my tone. That said, you guys are using the word "flagship" in the wrong way.

 

[entropy]

You guys are killing me with this nonsense. Think of the Japanese military in World War II. What comes to mind? Kamikazes? Zeros and carrier-launched torpedo- and dive-bombers planes (attacking Pearl Harbor)? Fanatics in caves? OK. Now, what was Japan's flagship during WWII? It alternated between the Yamato and the Musashi - the two largest battleships ever built. There were a grand total of two of them. There were thousands and thousands of Zeroes. There were hundreds of destroyers. There were dozens of cruisers. But here are the two flagships:

View attachment 900771

Not the most numerous. Not the most representative. The most capable/impressive. That's what flagship means. Period.

"Maybe it's different in firearms" you say? Well, let's look at what SIG themselves have to say about what they think is currently their "flagship."

P320 XFIVE LEGION
The new flagship of the P320 platform brings the perfect balance of added weight and features that results in one of the best shooting pistols in the market.

https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p320-xfive-legion.html​

That's right. Not the M17 that they're selling by the container-full to the military. Not the base P320 that is a big seller, nor a compact version. Their most up-featured gun. The one that most people won't buy. The one that most casual shooting people won't have heard of.

P.S. Yes, I'm aware that I'm probably getting a little cranky from the self-isolation. Forgive any excess heat in my tone. That said, you guys are using the word "flagship" in the wrong way.

Actually, by naval definition, wagonburner is correct. And a flagship can change several times during battle, as did Hipper's during Jutland.

As for IJN flagships, the Yamato, hands down. That sucker even took the Rising Sun into space.

 

[ATLDave]

Actually, by naval definition, wagonburner is correct. And a flagship can change several times during battle, as did Hipper's during Jutland.

The Japanese (like many navies) had a designated "flagship of the combined fleet." That was Yamato until sometime in 1943, and then Musashi. Thus, even when other ships were being used as a flagship of a particular operation, one of these two remained the flagship of the fleet. And both of these vessels acted as flagships on operations/in battles many times.

I suppose if we wanted to bring the shifting flag (wherever the commander is) definition, rather than the designated flagship of the fleet definition to the realm of product lines, we'd have to figure out what Sig's CEO is holding at any given time? Or maybe what their top professional shooter is using that day? That seems pretty odd, but it still wouldn't turn into a "what's the top seller" or "what's most commonly known" question, which is what many people in this thread seem to think is the definition.

And, to further expound upon your point that designated flagships for operations are wherever the commanding admiral (or other officer) is doing his work/issuing commands, those are, again, nearly always highly-capable capital ships. Not the most numerous type in the fleet. Going with Jutland, the Germans had many, many more torpedo boats than battleships... but the flagships were battleships. The German navy in WWI, and especially in WWII, had far more U-boats than capital surface ships. A u-boat was never the flagship of the German fleet.

 

[entropy]

After it was obvious the Lützow was going down, Hipper transferred his flag to a destroyer temporarily until he could get to the Moltke, a battle cruiser.

A u-boat was never the flagship of the German fleet.

Yet in both WWI and WWII, they were the greater threat, nearly strangling England both times. In WWII, only the US Navy and Merchant Marine's willingness to take on the casualties they did kept England in Spam and beans, as well as rifles, ammo, etc.

Yes, capital ships are the standard definition of 'flagship'.

 

[crestoncowboy]

When talking about a gun or a car then The naval definition of flagship might not be the best to use. The number 2 definition....

Per oxford.
the best or most important thing owned or produced by a particular organization.

Per Webster
the finest, largest, or most important one of a group of things (such as products, stores, etc.) —

The 210 is in no way important to sig at this point financially compared to the 320/ classic p series or 365. IMO Nor is it a ship that Carries a commander or the flag bearing ship. Maybe the finest I'll grant you but not the most important. At this point in time it may well be finest. Just depends on which definition you use.

I didnt write either dictionary. Not my fault.

 

[crestoncowboy]

which is what many people in this thread seem to think is the definition.

Not think. That is in fact a listed definition of Flagship when not talking about ships.

 

[entropy]

Per oxford.
the best

Per Webster
the finest

The 210

You said it all here. Neither Webster nor Oxford specifically mentions financially successful. "Most important" could be defined many ways, financially amongst them, but best and finest appear first.

Largest I guess would go to the STG57. Currently, it would be either the Cross, Virtus, or Tread. In pistols only it would be the MPX.

 

[ATLDave]

After it was obvious the Lützow was going down, Hipper transferred his flag to a destroyer temporarily until he could get to the Moltke, a battle cruiser...

Yes, capital ships are the standard definition of 'flagship'.

I suppose if Sig was somehow rendered incapable of producing anything but P365's those would temporarily be the flagship by default.

 

[ATLDave]

Per oxford.
the best or most important thing owned or produced by a particular organization.

Per Webster
the finest, largest, or most important one of a group of things (such as products, stores, etc.) —

The 210 is in no way important to sig at this point financially compared to the 320/ classic p series or 365. IMO Nor is it a ship that Carries a commander or the flag bearing ship. Maybe the finest I'll grant you but not the most important. At this point in time it may well be finest. Just depends on which definition you use.

I didnt write either dictionary. Not my fault.

You are misreading those definitions, sir.

Let's look at what Webster gives as usage examples of #2.

the finest, largest, or most important one of a group of things (such as products, stores, etc.) —often used before another noun

• the company's flagship store
• The traveling media crew comprises seven beat writers and a reporter from WFAN, the team's flagship station and the granddaddy of all-sports radio.

The company's flagship store would be, e.g., the New York location of Macy's. That is not a store that is representative or typical of their other stores. It is exceptional and different from their "usual." It is the single best one. Thus, the flagship.

Similarly, WFAN is one of many radio stations that covers New York sports teams and events. Many other stations around the country re-broadcast some of their content. For the network of stations that carry their content, it is the flagship. It is not typical of that group of stations. It is exceptional. It is not representative of what is most numerous or common. It is the outlier to the positive side. Thus, flagship.

Again, just look at Sig's own website. For the P320 line, they identify their most capable, up-featured model as the "flagship." NOT the models that are more numerous or well-known among the general populace.

 

[Master Blaster]

The new Tupperware thing 320 350. Etc it's a Lego toy / Modular handgun system.built to be customized for every need. The new handgun of the United States Armed Forces.
Then there is the P226, 228 220 etc line that was their flagship.

Me? I like the P938 my daily carry gun, or the P226 both 9mm.

 

[Old Dog]

Eh, can't believe we're arguing a definition of "flagship."

So, what if we rephrased the OP to ask, "What pistol put SIG on the map?" or "What pistol became SIG's signature pistol?"

 

[ATLDave]

Yep, those would each be different questions.

 

[Hurryin' Hoosier]

220 or 226....

That's a tough call.

I'll take one of each please.

I vote the P220.

 

[FL-NC]

I guess it would depend on what you like. For elegance, it would be the 210. For "tradition", I would say the DA "legacy" pistols like the 220, 226, 228, and 229. If I was going to take one to a fight today, I would want a M17.

 

[herrwalther]

Another vote for the P226.

 

[DrDeFab]

Since no one else has mentioned it, the current US flagships are the USS Blue Ridge and USS Mount Whitney: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_command_ship

Why? Advanced com gear and a heli deck.