Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Which of these 2 rifles has seen more Combat?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by TrickyDick, Mar 6, 2013.

?

Which of these 2 rifles has seen more combat?

Poll closed Apr 5, 2013.
  1. Mosin Nagant, and variants in 7.62x54R ONLY.

    42.6%
  2. AK-47/AKM, and variants in 7.62x39 ONLY. (NO 74's, etc.)

    57.4%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. TrickyDick

    TrickyDick Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Messages:
    705
    Location:
    Maine, USA
    Which of these 2 rifles has seen more combat overall. (i.e. wars, conflicts, engagements, etc. NOT total number of them used) the two options are the Mosin Nagant, in service since 1891. Chambered in 7.62x54R, and only the variants in that caliber will be considered. the 2nd option is the AK-47/AKM, in service since 1947. Chambered in 7.62x39, and only variants in that caliber will be considered, so NOT AK74's,galil's,PSL's,Vepr's, etc.
     
  2. -v-

    -v- Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,217
    Here's a better question, in what conflicts since the 1959 has the AKM not been involved in? I'd say I would be hard pressed to name any.
     
  3. PGT

    PGT Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2013
    Messages:
    364
    Location:
    Leesburg, VA
    based on how many Ruskies died in WWII carrying the Mosin, chances are good the Mosin has seen more combat. Hands down, the AK has delivered more combat however. Heck, the design of the AK was prompted by WWII and how outdated the Mosin was proven to be.
     
  4. Ehtereon11B

    Ehtereon11B internet infantryman

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
    Messages:
    983
    The AK family by far. With all the variants produced by Russia, China, Romania, Pakistan, and every other country it is estimated that there are about 70 million in service.
     
  5. jim243

    jim243 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,992
    The controlling word here is SEEN. While there may be more AKs produced, it did not come out untill after WWII and saw no combat during that war.

    Actually I would think that the SKS saw more combat than the AK eventhough we think of the AK as the bad Axx commie rifle.

    Jim
     
  6. 2zulu1

    2zulu1 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,089
    Location:
    Arizona
    The M-N has seen more combat than the AK, by a very large margin, from the Czars to Stalin. Add up all the Middle East, Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam wars, et al, that AK has been in and it doesn't come close to the combat usage of the M-N used by the Russian and Soviet armies.
     
  7. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    3,988
    Location:
    Southeast Texas
    Mosins have also been used by insurgents and rebels in all wars and conflicts that the AK has been in....And then the ones prior to the AKs development.
     
  8. Bohemus

    Bohemus Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    437
    Location:
    Mater Urbium, Bohemia
    Falklands/Malvinas?

    And to OP: Using approach "just one rifle in wholle conflict is enough to count it" then Mosin - still used in small scale in A-stan.
     
  9. Kachok

    Kachok Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    4,429
    Location:
    Palestine TX
    Number of conflicts I would say the Mosin since it is older, for volume of fighting the AK by a huge margin.
     
  10. cal30_sniper

    cal30_sniper Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2013
    Messages:
    305
    Location:
    TX
    Hard two increase volume on the main rifle of one of the largest nations in two world wars...

    The mosin has seen more combat, the AK has seen a lot of small scale conflict.
     
  11. Steel Horse Rider

    Steel Horse Rider Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    2,130
    Location:
    Loveland, Colorado
    The M-N was also used as the primary weapon by both sides in the Russo/Fin war.
     
  12. LeonCarr

    LeonCarr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Messages:
    3,819
    Location:
    At The Range
    My vote goes to the M-N, beat the AK into service by about 56 years.

    In the Falklands both sides had the FN FAL, I believe the Brits had the Inch Pattern FAL and the Argentines the Metric.

    Just my .02,
    LeonCarr
     
  13. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,321
    Location:
    West of the Big Muddy, East of the Rockies and Nor
    True wars in size, numbers of nations involved and participants hands down the Mosin Nagant.

    For the Mosin;
    1904 -1905; Russo-Japanese War
    1914 -1918; WW1
    1917 - 1918; The Russian Revolution
    1939 - 1940; The Winter War
    1941 - 1945; WW2

    In addtion it was used both against and by Finland, in the Spanish Civil War and during the Cold War, from Korea and Vietnam to Afghanistan and along the Iron Curtain in Europe. Virtually every country that received military aid from the Soviet Union, China, and Eastern Europe during the Cold War used Mosin–Nagants at various times.

    The AK while undoubtly widely exported and adopted by many small nations the size and numbers of participants are far, far smaller. Largely through use of television has made it appear likeit has been more commonly used.
     
  14. Sav .250

    Sav .250 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    3,461
    Location:
    Central Fla
    That information will be a benefit......why?
     
  15. TrickyDick

    TrickyDick Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Messages:
    705
    Location:
    Maine, USA
    remember, the amount of rifles used is irrelevant. its which model has been in more skirmishes of all sorts. read the OP.
     
  16. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    23,648
    Location:
    Los Anchorage
    The AK's have been around in most if not all brush wars and insurgencies since the 60's. But while there have been plenty of massacres in places like the Congo, the actual combat is intermittent, not continuous.

    The Mosin-Nagant on the other hand saw extensive service in the two worst wars in human history, along with many smaller wars of incredibly intensity like the Winter War and the Korean War. Remember that the big wars include innumerable skirmishes, ambushes, incursions, etc. So all the stuff that happens in a brushfire war also happens in a big war. Plus the enormous History Book battles.

    In the end there's not much of a contest.
     
  17. Float Pilot

    Float Pilot Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,154
    Location:
    Kachemak Bay Alaska
    The AKs have been in constant combat use in places like Africa, Central America , the middle-east, various pacific island nations and South America since the around 1959-1960 until the present. SO at least 54 years of constant front line use, spread around the globe.

    In many of those places, you do not see any or at least very few Mosins.
     
  18. AethelstanAegen

    AethelstanAegen Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2011
    Messages:
    1,260
    Location:
    Virginia
    With service in both World Wars (and we should note that the worst and vast majority of ground combat in WW2 occurred on the eastern front), the Mosin-Nagant easily surpasses the AK. The AK has been in a great number of conflicts as well but the sheer scale of those world wars dwarfs the AK's combat even without factoring in the other wars the M-N was in before the AK existed.
     
  19. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    4,046
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Given the scope of WWI and WWII it's hard to believe though that the AK could have the Mosin beat.
     
  20. Fishbed77

    Fishbed77 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
    Messages:
    3,039
    Indeed. The Mosin is the clear winner due to the scope of combat on the Eastern Front.

    You could add together every other conflict since WWII, and they still would not equal the bloodshed of that theater of operations.
     
  21. -v-

    -v- Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,217
    Damn...You got me there.

    I guess the question is just how small do we go down as far as conflict. If we include any situation where two armed parties with rifles shot at each other with rifles of some sort, I'd say AK. I would even say you would be hard-pressed to find even a WEEK between 1960-present day when two parties were not actively shooting at each other with AK-variants. Heck, probably as you're reading this, there's probably a few dozen firefights actively going on in Africa and the Middle East using the AK right this moment. If we're only considering large-scale declared wars, then yes the M-N wins. But, there was that pesky interwar period between WW1 and WW2 when no one was actively shooting at each other non-stop.

    My other suspision is the MN is not as widespread as the AK. While the MN saw service in Korea and Vietnam, I am not sure how many if any MN participated in say the Sino-Soviet conflict in the 1970's, Grenada, Various brush wars in South America. While MN have popped up in both Iraq and Afganistan, I would say the 99%+ of the volume of small arms fighting is done with AKs of some sort.

    Again, depends what sort of metrics we want to use to gauge this.
     
  22. RustHunter87

    RustHunter87 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    379
    Location:
    MAINE
    Africa...
     
  23. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    25,182
    Location:
    The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Tex
    hands down AK. The soviets supplied every anti-western country in the world with 'em and they're all over the third world shooting in hot wars even today, from Africa to the middle east to South America 67 years after adoption by the USSR.
     
  24. splattergun

    splattergun Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,699
    Location:
    Utah
    Mosin used primarily by Commbloc countries during and shortly after WWII. AKs used in nearly every international and civil conflict around the world since inception, often by both sides.

    Definately the AKs.
     
  25. Steel Horse Rider

    Steel Horse Rider Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    2,130
    Location:
    Loveland, Colorado
    I eould venture that the Mosin has been used in nearly all the communist supported conflicts that the AK was used in. Even the dearly departed tyrant Chavez had units parading with M/N's.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page