Very good point!
C0untZer0, you know what field life is like.
Have you considered the rifle's field service reputation?
FAL For The Win!
(Sorry, just had to say it
)
Which of these three in 308 for a post disaster rifle?
- Thread starter C0untZer0
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Very good point!
C0untZer0, you know what field life is like.
Have you considered the rifle's field service reputation?
FAL For The Win!
(Sorry, just had to say it
)
Doesn't matter, you can have any 800-900 meter gun you want. How many people have the ability to pull those shots off? You may or may not, but I'm just saying. In a post disaster situation I would think it wise not to possibly waste ammo on such far out shots or even give away your position if a threat or food source is that far out. You might need that ammo.
But really, come on, lets get down off that ledge.
Yeah.
Two thoughts:
1) I've been reading these forums for a while, and while I get that we shouldn't engage in too much fantasy/speculation, I think knowing the situation the OP is anticipating does help.
2) I want to echo/add to the statements above (do you really think you can/want to shoot that far?):
Isn't target awareness/identification like, paramount? At 800-900 yards are you sure you are aiming at a real threat? It could be your cousin coming back from a hunt and he forgot to tell everyone that he was going out that morning. If it is a deer we're talking about, you might want to get closer*.
If it is a person you are targeting, at that distance it sounds like you are talking about shooting first and asking questions later.
*Also, I ain't no outdoor enthusiast or expert, but wouldn't you be more likely to find fish in the mountains than large game? I know guns/hunting are more pertinent to this forum, but I've wondered recently if in that scenario we'd all really find large game just waiting to become dinner.
And if you bagged a deer, could you use/preserve the meat before it went bad? Where is your supply of salt to preserve it? Fish just seems like a better plan.
Edited for clarity.
I would prefer a bolt gun for serious long range shooting, but there are semis that can reach out that far very reasonably. The ones I would look at have been ruled out by the OP. The limit is more likely the shooter than the gun. Ability to read and correct for wind is much more limiting that the accuracy of good AR-10s.
eastbank
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i know this is old school,but it was the first battle rifle i ever fired and i loved it,when i went to VN i was issued a m-16 and i missed my m-14. i bought this m1a and it is as good as the first one i fired. out to 500yds you had better be hid or moving pretty fast if you don,t want a extra hole in your body. eastbank.
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lobo9er
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hows about a DSA FAL or did that come up already?
lobo9er
Member
not mine wish it was, but I would go for a longer barrel than that one. looks like a 16.
Luger_carbine
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I think the only FN rifle that fits what you seem to be looking for is the Fabrique Nationale FN Special Police Rilfe - probably the one that had all the McMillan stuff added and was chosed by the FBI as their Tactical Precision Rifle. I think it's the SPR A3 G...
fireside44
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I'd have to agree with this. Not many places around my area and most other areas I've lived where a 800 yard shot is possible without having staked out the location prior and setting yourself up in a sort of sniping position. I'm more worried about threats inside 300 or less yards, my property and so forth. I guess I could understand if you were on a large ranch though.
justice06rr
Member
The Scar17 would be my suggestion.
I read that they started issuing Border Patrol agents M14s. An M14 is probably going to give a Border Patrol agent greater range and accuracy than most of the stuff that the smugglers would be employing.
The thought just bugs me that if I had an average semi-auto in 308, where hitting targets past 750 meters gets iffy, I'd hate to be in a situation where if I got into a confrontation with someone else with a rifle that all they had to do was backup a hundred meters or so creating a situation where they can light me up while I can only put bullets in the dirt...
The thought just bugs me that if I had an average semi-auto in 308, where hitting targets past 750 meters gets iffy, I'd hate to be in a situation where if I got into a confrontation with someone else with a rifle that all they had to do was backup a hundred meters or so creating a situation where they can light me up while I can only put bullets in the dirt...
black_powder_Rob
Member
how would you get into a confrontation with someone over 750 meters?
Just curious. Just wondering what your situation would be.
As with others above I would think a good bolt gun with a high quality glass would be able to handle your conundrum.
Just curious. Just wondering what your situation would be.
As with others above I would think a good bolt gun with a high quality glass would be able to handle your conundrum.
The OP could go over to warrior talk, convicted criminal, Gabe Suarez, and his sheep are all about discussing "guerrilla sniper" topics for and other Red Dawn-esque fantasy. Gabe will also be happy to steer you to the perfect rifle for the job (at a higher price than you'd find else where), sale you accessories for it, and then in several months convince you it is a no longer a viable option despite all his previous praise and sell you a new latest and greatest rifle.
The number of people talking about FALs, PTR-91s, etc make me think that these folks either haven't shot those guns much or haven't shot out to 900 yards much. Guns like that are often 2-3 MOA guns. That type of a gun one likely cannot reliably make first round COM hits much past 600 yards.
The number of people talking about FALs, PTR-91s, etc make me think that these folks either haven't shot those guns much or haven't shot out to 900 yards much. Guns like that are often 2-3 MOA guns. That type of a gun one likely cannot reliably make first round COM hits much past 600 yards.
henschman
Member
There seems to be a trend of threads with novices who ask for opinions on rifles for a certain role, but rule out the best choice for that role.
I'm not sure why you would rule out the only .308 semi auto that is actually winning sniper/long range precision competitions at those ranges, and which is proving highly effective in that role in real life. I know it's your buying decision and you can put whatever conditions you want on it, but you are really doing yourself a disservice by excluding the .308 AR. The fact that you would consider the Safari and FNAR for that role yet would exclude the .308 AR tells me that you don't have much experience in this type of shooting. I would suggest listening to the opinions of those with more experience before limiting your choices like that.
Ask your question on any serious forum that is dedicated to sniping, like sniper's hide, and you will overwhelmingly get recommendations for .308 AR variants, like the LaRue OBR and the GA Precision GAP-10.
I'm not sure why you would rule out the only .308 semi auto that is actually winning sniper/long range precision competitions at those ranges, and which is proving highly effective in that role in real life. I know it's your buying decision and you can put whatever conditions you want on it, but you are really doing yourself a disservice by excluding the .308 AR. The fact that you would consider the Safari and FNAR for that role yet would exclude the .308 AR tells me that you don't have much experience in this type of shooting. I would suggest listening to the opinions of those with more experience before limiting your choices like that.
Ask your question on any serious forum that is dedicated to sniping, like sniper's hide, and you will overwhelmingly get recommendations for .308 AR variants, like the LaRue OBR and the GA Precision GAP-10.
Driftertank
Member
Personal experience: my PTR and a friend's M1A have both printed in the 1.5 MOA range with the right ammo.
With a bit of load tweaking 1 MOA is likely do-able given favorable weather conditions and a touch of luck. We're both building our rifles in the same vein as the OP's concept, sortof general purpose DMR's; hunt out to 500, target shoot out to 800.
Every platform has it's pros and cons, but for a field-intended rough use gun, rifles adopted, or at least designed for, military use tend to be reliable and easier to maintain.
Of the options listed by the OP, i'd pick the "M-21"
Just my opinion and experience. Nothing more.
With a bit of load tweaking 1 MOA is likely do-able given favorable weather conditions and a touch of luck. We're both building our rifles in the same vein as the OP's concept, sortof general purpose DMR's; hunt out to 500, target shoot out to 800.
Every platform has it's pros and cons, but for a field-intended rough use gun, rifles adopted, or at least designed for, military use tend to be reliable and easier to maintain.
Of the options listed by the OP, i'd pick the "M-21"
Just my opinion and experience. Nothing more.
Flfiremedic
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If you want a semi-auto, and are looking at 900 meters, go with the Browning in 300 Win Mag.
The mountains of NC where I have a camp and my "go to" place in a "post disaster" is over run with deer and turkey. There isn't a fish within a couple of miles.
I'm not a hunter but I am prepared to hunt if hunger dictated, .308 for the deer and 12 gauge for the turkey, or if game laws need to be broken to survive, .22 for turkey farther out than shotgun range. There are even a few black bear and coyotes if times got bad enough.
For .308 I have a LR308, a Ruger American and a Remington 700 ADL Varmint. Right now the Ruger is the most accurate, the DPMS next and sadly my new 700 isn't so great, but certainly minute of deer out to some huge distance I'd never likely have in dense forest in my camp area.
Bang for the buck for hunting the Ruger is the best deal of the 3, the DPMS would be my choice if I only had one.
What was the measure of that? Three shot groups? Five shot groups? Ten shot groups? Is this consistent or is that a measure of select groups? Also how far out have you shot it. It is not always the case that 1.5" at 100 yards means 4.5" at 300 or 13.5" at 900 yards (which BTW might be enough to put you off target). I'm not doubting, I'm just curious and want to be sure we are comparing apples to apples. Also even a consistent 1.5 MOA gun for 10 shot groups isn't anything close to the sub MOA groups of the best AR10 guns
eastbank
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for every shot taken at 800-900 yds,you will most likely take 10 shots at 300yds or closer. and having a good set of irons on your rifle is just as important as a good scope. and it must be relieable and be maintained with minium fuss,while keeping the weight down. if the poster did not want a semi-auto rifle i would say a bolt action may be the answer. i have a rem 700 syn stocked pillar bedded in 308 with a 20 inch medium weight barrel that is super accurate(2-3 "groups at 300yds) with 165gr-180gr nosler BT bullets with varget powder and a 6.5x20 target leupold. eastbank.
allaroundhunter
Member
While I wouldn't doubt it, I have never seen a border patrol agent with one. The only rifles that I see in the hands of BP are M4/AR15s with eotech sights. If they have to fire in the line of duty, it is still typically close range, or well within the range that an AR is a better choice over an M14.
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