Which shotgun for first 3 gun match?

[fordfan485]

Going to be going to my first three gun match in October and am currently undecided on which of my shotguns to use here are my choices:

1a)Mossberg 500 field with 28in ported barrel with 3 accu chokes 5+1 capacity
1b) Same mossberg but with a 18.5 in cylinder bore barrel

2) Remington 1100 (circa 1971). 2 3/4 cyl with a fixed improved cyl choke. 4+1 capacity

3) Saiga 12. 1) 5rd mag. 4) 10 rd mags and 1) 20 rd drum

1a would put me in open class because of the ported barrel, #3 obviously puts me in open. Neither my rifle or pistol have anything to qualify for open so not sure I want to compete in that class. Not sure how effective teh mossberg with the cyl bore would be against long range targets. Rem 1100 has limited capacity though I am open to putting on a mag extension as long as it isn't too hard to switch back. Rem 1100 also would be slower to load with that bolt carrier button on it.

Here are the rules for the match I will be shooting
tidewater3gun.com/match-rules.html

Any suggestions?

 

[LeonCarr]

The 1100. Looks like your match rules have no barrel length restrictions for Tactical Class. You already want to extend the magazine, I recommend Nordic Components.

Read this: http://www.trapshooters.com/remington_1100_notes.pdf, especially the cleaning and troubleshooting portions.

If you have time before the match, install if you are handy with tools or have a gunsmith install this: http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-pa...remington-1100-11-87-easyloader-prod5796.aspx

Bruce Piatt has won multiple world championships with a slightly modified 1100 he bought at a pawn shop for 350 bucks. He shoots a Versamax now, but only because he is sponsored by Remington .

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Sheepdog1968]

How about choosing the one you would use in the house for self defense?

 

[Deer_Freak]

I would watch a match to see what everyone else is shooting. Most likely you will be handicapped with any of your guns. The gun can have no external modifications. That means you can not add a magazine extension.

To be honest you are not going to win your first match. Shoot several matches with your mossberg with the 18.5" barrel until you see if you like the event. Once you are ready to make a commitment buy a Mossberg or Maverick shotgun with a 9 shot magazine.

Only 12 gauge pump action shotguns are allowed in this class.

No ported barrels or compensators are allowed.

I strongly suggest you read the rules. They are basic IDPA rules in an unsanctioned match.

 

[lmccrock]

Which one are you most comfortable with?

What ranges are shotgun targets? 18.5" cylinder might be ok if they are all close. Or you can use beefier ammo; the Walmart shells or equivalent need a choke but dove loads may not. It is hard to watch somebody shooting a cylinder bore gun with low power loads at targets that everyone else is dropping just fine.

Just birdshot or do you need buck or slugs? Do slug stages mix with birdshot? If so, the Saiga is tricky because you would need to select-load using different magazines, or load sequentially in the magazine and that is risky for a new shooter because it is easy to get out of order and shoot a slug at a birdshot plate, which is usually a DQ.

I hope you have fun.

 

[fordfan485]

Only 12 gauge pump action shotguns are allowed in this class.

That is only for the Heavy metal class, not tactical.


Rules for shotguns :

6.3 Shotgun
6.3.1 Open Class
6.5.1 No limitations on accessories (see Rule 5.3, 5.4, 5.5).
6.5.2 Shotgun detachable magazines and speed loaders are allowed in Open Class.
6.5.2.1. Shotgun speed loaders must be the new type, or modified old style with the primer relief cut.
6.5.2.2. Use of old style shotgun speed loaders without the primer relief cut will result in Match disqualification.

6.3.2 Tactical Class
6. 3.2.1 Shotguns must be of a factory configuration (see Rule 5.3, 5.4, 5.5).
6. 3.2.2 Internal modifications are allowed providing the modifications do not alter the original factory configuration of the shotgun.
6. 3.2.3 No electronic or optical sights are allowed on shotguns in this class.
6. 3.2.4 No shotgun supporting devices (i.e. bipods, etc.) are allowed in this class.
6. 3.2.5 No compensators or porting on barrels allowed in this class.
6. 3.2.6 No shotgun in Tactical class may be loaded with more than 9 rounds at any time.
6. 3.2.7 No shotgun speed loaders or shotguns with detachable magazines are allowed in this class.

6.3.3 Heavy Metal Class
6.3.3.1 Shotguns must comply with Tactical Shotgun rules.
6.3.3.2 Only 12 gauge pump action shotguns are allowed in this class.

All I know so far about the match is there are 5 stages and the round count is as follows: Round Count: Rifle-100, Pistol-85, Shotgun-85 shot/10 slugs

The more I think about it I am just going to shoot open class and just have some fun. Most likely with the mossberg 500 with the 28 in barrel, it is the only gun that I have chokes for and am most comfortable with. I havn't even fired the remington 1100 or Saiga. I inherited the Rem 2 years ago and it has been a safe queen since. I bought the Saiga back in January during the "panic" and not even sure if functions on light loads.

 

[waktasz]

The 28in Mossberg or the 1100.

It sucks shooting a short barrel with an open choke and not being able to knock down the targets. I've done it when I was first starting out and was using borrowed gear.

 

[StealthyBlagga]

Don't get too hung up on chokes. The 1100 will probably work best for you - I ran one for more than a decade, and it rarely let me down. You have plenty of time to buy an 8-shot magazine extension and test the gun before the match. This will keep you out of Open division and make you a bit more competitive... its probably where you will end up anyway.

Whichever shotgun you run, test it thoroughly for reliability... the shotgun is the gun most likely to let you down during a match.

 

[waktasz]

I wonder why you'd say that. At all the matches I've been the the people with the most issues are new people with fixed chokes that can't knock down the small or far away targets. You can get by with a small magazine tube, but if you can't knock down the targets at all why bother ?

 

[StealthyBlagga]

I ran a 12ga with 22" sawn off barrel for years. It did a pretty good job of dropping most (90%+) of the steels, and anything a little too heavy was easily dropped with high-brass loads (just keep a few on the belt). The IC choke on the OPs 1100 barrel is even more adequate, and I'd venture to guess a substantial number of 3-gunners screw an IC choke into their barrel and never change it.

Shotgun is all about ammo management, and so extra mag capacity trumps choke by a substantial margin.

 

[waktasz]

Maybe the matches I shoot are just too hard then. I run IC most of the time too but if I didn't have the choice to switch to an LM or Mod I'd be stuck leaving steel standing.

Even at the side match at Area 8 last month I needed to shoot a mod choke to take the plates off the star at the distance they had it. Someone else had to go to IM because he only had a 22" barrel compared to my 26

 

[StealthyBlagga]

Maybe the matches I shoot are just too hard then. I run IC most of the time too but if I didn't have the choice to switch to an LM or Mod I'd be stuck leaving steel standing.

Even at the side match at Area 8 last month I needed to shoot a mod choke to take the plates off the star at the distance they had it. Someone else had to go to IM because he only had a 22" barrel compared to my 26

The strength of the shotgun as a weapon is that it can shoot such a wide variety of ammunition. If you try to solve all shooting problems with light 1oz comp #7.5 birdshot loads, you are going to be disappointed and have to change chokes constantly to deal with smaller/heavier plates. Sometimes the best option will be a few rounds of high brass heavy game containing one of the larger shot sizes - there are very few steels that won't drop to a hit from 2-3/4", 3-3/4DE, 1-1/4oz #6 regardless of choke. Yes, it's more expensive and kicks more, but it does let you get away with less choke (which may be desirable, such as for stages with flying clays). There is always more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[waktasz]

I'd have to run that on every stage at local matches then.

 

[stubbicatt]

Remmy 870 out of the question?

 

[fordfan485]

Remmy 870 out of the question?

I don't have a rem 870

 

[StealthyBlagga]

I'd have to run that on every stage at local matches then.

OK, but be advised that your frequent need for tight chokes is a little unusual - under our rules (IMA - a commonly used rules set) shotgun targets are calibrated using a 20ga shotgun, and so they should fall to a solid 12ga hit without the need for an unusually tight choke. The OP can decide, based on his local match stage designs, whether having tighter choke options is worth making the jump to Open.

OP: The most important aspect by far is reliability. Test each of your guns and see which runs best. Don't assume a pump will be more reliable either - this is a common misconception, and I see a lot of folks struggle with short stroking under the perssure of the clock. With this said, I hate to break it to you but you likely won't win your first match, so just focus on making the jump and competing... after shooting your first match you will have a much better idea of what kind of equipment is going to work for you.

 

[IndianaBoy]

Your very first 3-gun match? Shoot the Saiga. Yes I know it will put you in open. It's your first match, who cares? You are still learning the ropes. No offense but you aren't going to win your first match. Yes of course you should try to do as well as possible but first matches the focus should be on safety and learning. We have all been there. My first match was a competitive disaster and it wouldn't have mattered what class I shot, I was there to learn. Your pistol and rifle being non-open is much less of a big deal than how handicapped you would be with a 4+1 shotgun in tac ops. The single biggest difference between tac and open is the shotgun.

If it is a shotgun heavy match, you will be VERY VERY frustrated trying to shoot and keep a 4+1 shotgun full.

How much have your practiced your shotgun loading? If you are quick with your loading the 1100 might be an option but IF your Saiga runs well, go with that.


You can decide later whether or not you want to shoot open, or put a tube on a semi-auto and shoot tac op or limited.

Best bang for your buck is to find a used winchester sx2 or sx3 and add a nordic tube. I found one for a friend and he now has a better shotgun than me and he spent less. My SLP is a good gun but with a long tube I might as well have the longer barrel for more velocity.



I hate to suggest that you spend the money for a tube on the 1100 because I wouldn't recommend that platform. The Benelli, Beretta, FN/Winchester, and Versamax options will treat you far better than an 1100.

 

[allaroundhunter]

I would watch a match to see what everyone else is shooting. Most likely you will be handicapped with any of your guns. The gun can have no external modifications. That means you can not add a magazine extension.

To be honest you are not going to win your first match. Shoot several matches with your mossberg with the 18.5" barrel until you see if you like the event. Once you are ready to make a commitment buy a Mossberg or Maverick shotgun with a 9 shot magazine.

Only 12 gauge pump action shotguns are allowed in this class.

No ported barrels or compensators are allowed.

I strongly suggest you read the rules. They are basic IDPA rules in an unsanctioned match.

You are dead wrong on so much of this.

No external modifications? Wrong.

Only 12 ga pump actions for his class? Wrong.

No Ported barrels and compensators are allowed? Wrong.

Most all 3 gun matches follow USPSA rules, even if it isn't a 'sanctioned' match.

You should read the rules a little more closely.

 

[frankge]

I shoot an 1100 Tac+4, I would add a mag extension to get you to 9 rounds. I shoot a Modified choke and it smacks steel down and I can still shoot slugs safely. Opened up the ports slightly to get better gas action with target loads. I also added a Dave's Metal Works speed loader on it to improve loading - loading is everything with Shotgun. Open Cylinder will give you fits IMHO.

If I had money to spend it would be a Benelli M2. Older Remmy's were made better than the new ones like mine.

 

[btg3]

Most likely with the mossberg 500 with the 28 in barrel, it is the only gun that I have chokes for and am most comfortable with.

You nailed it. For your first match, really a no-brainer. Enjoy!

 

[IndianaBoy]

My friend I still suggest the Saiga. If it is your first match, unless you are ahead of the curve of most first match shooters, you will be much less frustrated with a mag fed gun unless there is a LOT of buck and slugs mixed in.

Biggest advice I would give you. Find an experienced shooter on your squad, shake his hand, tell him you are new, and ask him to help guide you through. There is a lot going on at a first match and it is all too easy to let a safety rule slip your mind while you are worrying about shooting your stages. Get out and do some shooting with your saiga and if you don't have chokes take a few 1300 fps loads with you in case of heavier steel.

The shotgun is the biggest hurdle to new 3-gunners.

Don't miss. Shotguns, even mag feds, don't hold much ammo. If you miss two shots because you are blazing away and that necessitates a reload, you just added a bunch of time.

I would hate to take my 4+1 mossberg to a match. I can't even imagine trying to load it on the clock and shoot it on the clock. Comfort be damned, you can learn the saiga well enough in a week or two.


For what it's worth, I'm not a national class shooter. FAR from it. I'm pretty consistently in the top 10% at state or regional matches. You won't see me on 3-gun nation anytime soon. But I have been doing this for years, I'm not a brand fanatic for any gun platform, and my only interest is seeing a new 3-gunner have a positive experience at their first match.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVOFZNaHPfI&feature=share&list=UU1Wtsd-LJLRjZb0U6J9SzNQ

 

[fordfan485]

Just thought I would give an update since the match is tomorrow. I decided on shooting the Saiga-12. I converted it earlier this week and installed a reliability kit so that it would shoot low brass shells. Fired it for the first time on Friday and it worked great. I added a poly choke II so I don't get screwed with having only a cylinder bore on the long shots . I'll post a video tomorrow night showing how I did.

 

[fordfan485]

Had a blast today, finished 32 out of 53. Won the Open Division (there was only two of us shooting open. Major frustration with the AGP saiga 10 rd magazines I had, the feed lips kept popping off and spitting my shells all over the place. Ended up just using a 20 rd drum mag on every stage that worked well. Only other issue is that my AR, the carry handle rear sight came loose during the middle of the match and threw off my zero. I'll have video up tommrow.

 

[fordfan485]

http://youtu.be/UMdc95fPlOQ

Here is the video I recorded

 

[1KPerDay]

Cool. Looks like you maybe should have gone with the Mossberg. and lose the sling.

FUN, innit?!