Which single stage press is the best?

[Doug b]

1858 I recently popped the top off a Lee collet die it went off like a .22 rim fire I'm sure it would be over kill on a pop can.

 

[cheygriz]

Earlthegoat2

If you're getting into serious bench rest competition, the Forster may have a very tiny advantage. But I know several master class high power shooterts that swear by the Ultramag.

 

[GW Staar]

I'm looking for a single stage press for a single caliber. Which brand/model provides the best accuracy and reliability?

I have to agree with Walkalong. "You guys are killing me." This is exactly like the oil field workers in my neck of the woods talking about pickup trucks. Some guys badmouth Chevy, saying their Fords are the only truck that'll hold up in the oilfield in bad weather. Then you talk to the Chevy owners and you get the same story about Fords. I guess it's human nature to do all you can to make it known that your decision (the current one) is the best and what you use is the best. I've heard "some" truths, some halftruths, and and even a few lies, or at least continuations of stories that never seem to go away, like the bull that RCBS doesn't make good equipment anymore because their frames are made in China. RCBS has a lifetime warranty on their presses. Even if the qualilty control in China doesn't have the same perfection as it did in the US, (and there's no proof of that), if you were to get a misaligned frame, RCBS will replace it. If you only figure that out 10 years later RCBS will still replace it. If the "weak" cast iron frame springs out of alignment 20 years later RCBS will replace it...free.

Now I'm not going to bad mouth Lee. The price point is a lot cheaper. To give their customers that cheap price...something has to give...in how much it costs to produce, and what kind of guarantee they can offer.

Now lets clear something up. The Lee Classic Cast (and the Classic Turret) have Cast Iron frames not steel...just like the RCBS. What is steel vs. the competition's cast iron, is only the linkage (and in the Turrets case the columns that hold the frame pieces together) Check it for yourself HERE The lever handles, and the rams are Steel for RCBS and most other brands as well.

As for the "aluminum" argument of some posts, consider that automobile companies only went to aluminum block engines, to save weight,get better gas mileage, and to get the Feds off their backs. Nobody has ever said they are better and stronger. As for aircraft, it's a weight issue as well. Ever been in a light plane? You have to wonder if the things will stay together for one flight...and it's a wonder of the world when they do.

About Lee's warranty: It's really a great warranty, and it's fair considering the price point of the original equipment. Replacement for 2 years, and after that they will fix or replace (as they decide) for life...if you send them 1/2 of the then current retail price.


Now to the O.P. All the brands can and do provide "the best accuracy" if the reloader cares enough, is knowledgeable enough, and spends enough money on dies (especially seaters), trimmer, concentricity gage, Lapua cases, the best bullets...and don't forget to hire a big name company to make your tricked out race gun, or custom bench rest masterpiece. You weren't specific as to how serious you are about it.

Most of us aren't into that much accuracy, now are we?

Now on reliability. How serious are you about that? A lifetime guarantee on your press may be more important than a two year one, but that's a personal choice. I don't think my RCBS Rock Chucker is the best of the best. That may very well be a Redding or a Forester. Depends whether you are a Ford man or a Chevy man (figuratively). My equipment has lasted me 40 years now, and none of it shows any signs of causing me to test RCBS's life time warranty. Not surprised, are you? Maybe the Lee, Forster, Redding machines are better....how do you test that? More than good enough, has been good enough for me...and you know, if I'd bought a Redding or Forster, I'd probably feel the same way about them.

Oh, btw, I bought a Lee first. It was a Lee Loader. It only had to last two months though, since I started using the Rock Chucker after that. I liked it, but I got impatient...kinda like how after these 40 years I got impatient again...and bought an RCBS Pro 2000.

Any of the products we've talked about can load good ammo...pick the one that suits your needs and expectations. Don't get swayed by the the people trying to justify their last purchase, or those who think their brand is it and the rest is crap.

 

[Doug b]

Yep the "Made in China" really unsold me,adios RCBS.

 

[flashhole]

I agree with a lot of what GW Starr said but he is incorrect on one point in that Lee Classic presses are cast steel, not cast iron. I saw the reference on the Lee Factory Sales website (no association with Lee other than they sell Lee products just like Midway sells Lee products). That is a misprint on behalf of Lee Factory Sales. The Lee Classic presses are made from resmelted steel railroad rails.

I also agree with Doug b, taking any of it to China is a real turn-off for me. I have some RCBS equipment and will keep it and continue to use it but they will not be on my "new" purchase list.

 

[ranger335v]

"...the time to switch dies is nothing compared to the time to neck size and knock out the primer, bump the shoulder back, clean the primer pockets, clean the inside of the case necks, seat a new primer, weigh out the powder and seat the bullet. If I'm missing the plot then feel free to enlighten me. I think I'll be sticking with the tried and true "O" frame."

Ditto. Most intelligent appraisal of the "speed" of conventional turrets - and "quick change" die systems - I've ever seen.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Earlthegoat2

If you're getting into serious bench rest competition, the Forster may have a very tiny advantage. But I know several master class high power shooterts that swear by the Ultramag.

I will buy that. Honestly my reloading is done strictly recreationally. I like experimenting with different presses and set-ups. Those two presses are for my money the smoothest and rock solid units you can buy. If I were to only load for handguns though I would rather have something totally different like a Boss or a Rock Chucker just so I could have less of a throw on the lever.

 

[Walkalong]

Unless your press is way out of line, the best dies and procedures will load excellent ammo.

It is easy to ceck these things.

There is best, and then there is best, and then there is good enough.

 

[jmortimer]

The "best single stage" is a Lee Classic Turret Press with the auto-index deactivated and used in single stage mode. Swap out the turrets with all 3 or 4 dies pre-set in a few seconds and reload. Nice. No single stage can do that which is why the Lee Precision Classic Turret is so popular.

 

[snuffy]

At the risk of furthering the argument, the linked page at Lee precision contradicts itself further down the page;

Now lets clear something up. The Lee Classic Cast (and the Classic Turret) have Cast Iron frames not steel...just like the RCBS. What is steel vs. the competition's cast iron, is only the linkage (and in the Turrets case the columns that hold the frame pieces together) Check it for yourself HERE The lever handles, and the rams are Steel for RCBS and most other brands as well.

Scrolling down further on that page shows the foundry where the railroad rails are being recycled-poured into castings. Pardon me, but I always thought railroad rails were steel! Whoever wrote that add apparently wouldn't know the difference between iron and steel if it bit them in the arse! In fact, most people use both terms interchangeably in daily use.

Further down that page, I see that Lee has a quick change base for the classic turret and classic cast! I WILL be ordering one of those as soon as I find just where they are offered. I often wished I could move the classic turret and cast, but unbolting them would take WAY too much time.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Sorry to hear that snuffy. I figured you had at least a few months left... evil

 

[ranger335v]

"If you're getting into serious bench rest competition, the Forster may have a very tiny advantage."

If anyone is getting into "serious bench rest competition" the first things he tosses are his threaded dies and conventional presses, no matter the brand, their loading requries hand dies and arbor presses. Well, they do frequently use small conventional presses for case reforming/FL sizing but I don't think they are as fixiated on brands as the rest of us are, many of them use light alum alloy presses for their "heavy" work!

 

[Walkalong]

Like this one I bought from Ed Watson many years ago, using a threaded bushing type full length sizer cut with the reamer that did the barrel. A Niel Jones hand die with an Arbor press for seating bullets. I also have the NJ bushing type sizer, but switched to the custom threaded one.

 

[EddieNFL]

Nice press, Anthony. Looks a lot like a Harrell (or the Harrell brothers borrowed the design).

 

[LiveLife]

Ok, here's another C&H - Champion model. I won't claim it to be the best, but I like it along with RCBS Reloader Special 5.

 

[GW Staar]

I agree with a lot of what GW Starr said but he is incorrect on one point in that Lee Classic presses are cast steel, not cast iron. I saw the reference on the Lee Factory Sales website (no association with Lee other than they sell Lee products just like Midway sells Lee products). That is a misprint on behalf of Lee Factory Sales. The Lee Classic presses are made from resmelted steel railroad rails.

I also agree with Doug b, taking any of it to China is a real turn-off for me. I have some RCBS equipment and will keep it and continue to use it but they will not be on my "new" purchase list.

Ok, so you go to LeePrecison.com...press the products button...then pick "Classic Cast Press" on the menu, and magically you are moved to a site that doesn't have any "association" with Lee. Bull.

If it is a misprint, then its a misprint that Lee Precision made...nobody else. Speaking of Midway, the misprint is repeated in their catalog as well. Don'tcha think Lee Precision might want to "fix" such a misprint...fast...if it isn't true??? I agree the pictures below insinuate that the press bodies are cast from railroad ties, but they don't prove it. The ties in the picture might be stock to forge the press linkage from, or Classic Turret parts. The guy pouring the hot metal could be pouring iron. Maybe the caption on that is a missprint! If what you say is true, and maybe it really is, show me where Lee states in writing that it is anything but cast iron. Then I will believe. Fair enough?

BTW, a quote from the Lee Classic turret page: "The sturdy iron base shows its Classic Cast roots." All the rest of the turret press looks like steel but the base is iron.

As for RCBS castings being casted in China. I'm not any more happy than you are, but at least they're not missleading anybody. But where do you strike the line? A hell of a lot of what we use every day is made in China...including the computer you are using...for sure the motherboard. So why is RCBS picked to take all the heat....they do what they have to to compete like everybody else. Great, if Lee is resisting so far...or are they? Most of the hardware in Home Depot is made there. Do ya think Lee is going to tell you that all the hardware used to assemble their presses is from China...hell no.

This is a quote from Richard Lee on Press bodies.(found here)

"I take special delight in my part to end a trend of the manufacturers advertising how strong their presses are. Their claims were true. One particular press was 40 times stronger than need be to do the job. To point out how ridiculous it was, I turned down each of the support columns of a Lee Turret Press to 1/8 inch. I then sized a large magnum case with these skinny columns. A picture of this in all the shooting publications ended the "Mine is bigger than yours claims." The silly ads stopped."

What Richard Lee actually says in this particular propaganda is that those 1/8" support columns loaded ONE large magnum case. How many would it load before it failed? That's the real question. These guys hire word professionals who win not by what they say, but how they say it, and what it makes the masses believe. Same as our "beloved" President.

 

[Clark]

The Forster Co-ax is my favorite.

 

[GW Staar]

At the risk of furthering the argument, the linked page at Lee precision contradicts itself further down the page;



Scrolling down further on that page shows the foundry where the railroad rails are being recycled-poured into castings. Pardon me, but I always thought railroad rails were steel! Whoever wrote that ad apparently wouldn't know the difference between iron and steel if it bit them in the arse! In fact, most people use both terms interchangeably in daily use.

Or does Lee use that "fact" to make people think their cast iron is steel. Now your Classic Turret is mostly forged steel (from those railroad ties, oops, rails), but the red base I'm betting is cast. OMG what does Lee say, here.

Further down that page, I see that Lee has a quick change base for the classic turret and classic cast! I WILL be ordering one of those as soon as I find just where they are offered. I often wished I could move the classic turret and cast, but unbolting them would take WAY too much time.

The quick change base does look good...especially for limited benchtops.

Of all the Lee tools, I really do like the Classic Turret. If ever I decide I need three presses...that may fit the bill.

 

[Ala Dan]

Well, actually I don't know what is the BEST single-stage press~? The one
thing I do know, is the fact that I haven't worn out my original RCBS "Jr";
or a Rock Chucker~!

 

[snuffy]

GW starr, I was able to order that base direct from the Lee website. It should be here this week sometime.

Or does Lee use that "fact" to make people think their cast iron is steel. Now your Classic Turret is mostly forged steel (from those railroad ties), but the red base I'm betting is cast. OMG what does Lee say, here.

See how easy it would be for someone to miss-use iron instead of steel in the description? Railroad TIES are wood! Rails are steel.

I'm tired of this discrepancy, I'm going to email Lee directly to see if they could clear this up for me/us. Maybe, if it is a misprint, they may take steps to get it changed. Otherwise it's false advertising, not something that helps in this day and age of computer access. It doesn't really matter to me, both of my presses are very functional, and I like them very much.

 

[GW Staar]

GW starr, I was able to order that base direct from the Lee website. It should be here this week sometime.



See how easy it would be for someone to miss-use iron instead of steel in the description? Railroad TIES are wood! Rails are steel.

Now that's a thought...maybe a press could be made out of wood. Kidding. Point taken, every time I try to use the quick reply I do a typo...I oughta learn! However you'd think a company like Lee probably pays knowledgable people to proof-read their web site.

I'm tired of this discrepancy, I'm going to email Lee directly to see if they could clear this up for me/us. Maybe, if it is a misprint, they may take steps to get it changed. Otherwise it's false advertising, not something that helps in this day and age of computer access. It doesn't really matter to me, both of my presses are very functional, and I like them very much.

The email is probably a good plan...I'd ask the guy who fields your email, to verify that their web site is right or wrong with somebody other than another guy in the email answering dept.

And don't get me wrong, I don't fault Lee's two cast presses, as I think they are fine presses, maybe more than fine. Cast Iron is fine. My point of including Lee's quote about the 1/8" spindled turret test, in my 2nd post, is that if he's so hot about other companies "over building" and touting the overbuilt strength, then why does he go to the extra trouble and expense to make steel castings, versus iron castings? I'm not sure he does, and the specs in his ads bear it out. In the Turret the forged steel parts are obvious...and he didn't send the 1/8" spindles to production...thank goodness.

 

[ranger335v]

"If it is a misprint, then its a misprint that Lee Precision made...nobody else. Speaking of Midway, the misprint is repeated in their catalog as well. Don'tcha think Lee Precision might want to "fix" such a misprint...fast...if it isn't true???"

No one would suggest it's anyone's fault BUT Lee's. But, I've read a couple of magazine articles in which the writer had toured the plant casting the press bodies out of steel and included photos of the process. Of course that doesn't "prove" anything does it, he may have been lying or Lee may have been lying to him. For what purpose I can't imagine but I can imagine sloppy advertising copy writers using cast iron and steel interchangably.


"So why is RCBS picked to take the heat....they do what they have to to compete like everybody else....Do ya think Lee is going to tell you that all the hardware used to assemble their presses is from China...hell no."

Maybe. None of us know where any company's manufactoring machinery comes from, do we? But the country of origin IS clearly labled on all things, by Fed. regulations. Few of us firmly object to things made in China, etc, IF our costs reflect it. But, IF we're going to be charged high prices anyway, why not get at least equally well made in the USA tools?

So, why does RCBS get heat? Well, if you pay much attention to those who have knee-jerk reactions to slime Lee's presses and dies, etc., you will quickly see that 90% of them seem to think all things reloading start and stop at green, which is foolish on the face of it. For instance, who would KNOW or CARE how great green's customer service is if they really were the epitomy of massive mechanical strength and perfection?


"quote from Richard Lee on Press bodies...I turned down each of the support columns of a Lee Turret Press to 1/8 inch. I then sized a large magnum case with these skinny columns. ... What Richard Lee actually says in this particular propaganda is that those 1/8" support columns loaded ONE large magnum case. How many would it load before it failed?

Well, forever actually. At least until rust or external damage occured on the 1/8" sections. Any sufficently strong steel in tension will retain its strength virtually forever and that was Lee's point. More mass in those purely tension-stressed rods simply increases their resistance to stray side forces (bending).


Another thing, some of us are old enough to remember when Blount/Speer/RCBS ran a phony advertizing smear campaign against Lee tools some thirty years ago; they insulted our intelligence and actually lost market share! I enjoyed watching the bullies slink away at the end of that short lived contest.

Understand, Lee isn't my favorite brand. Actually, I don't have a favorite brand. I have enough experience to guide my choices of tools by the features, not the color, so I buy some from almost all brands. It's my nature to defend anyone subjected to unfair or silly attacks and in the reloading world that's most often Lee. I'll leave it up to others to suggest why that is.

 

[flashhole]

I have a dollar that says if the good folks at Lee answer snuffy's Classic Cast question - iron or steel - the answer will come back steel.

Any takers?

 

[aerod1]

Well I'm hoping it is the "Lee Classic Cast" because I just ordered one. I already have a "Lee Classic Cast Turret" which I like very well!! I also have the little "Lee Reloader" single stage press.

 

[cheygriz]

In just about all other areas of life, you get what you pay for.

Why would reloading tools be any different???

I know people who load decent ammo on Lee tools. They work. And I applaud Richard Lee for getting hundreds of thousands of people into the handloading hobby, who otherwise probably wouldn't have started without the cheap Lee tools. They can be a great starter set.
But to say that they are of equal quality to Forster, RCBS, Redding, Lyman, C-H etc, is simply to insult our intelligence.