Which single stage press is the best?

[Offfhand]

Let's go back to the beginning: Mr Peterson simply asks..


"I'm looking for a single stage press for a single caliber. Which brand/model provides the best accuracy and reliability? "

Mr.Peterson, unfortunately, doesn't mention what "single caliber" he wants to load, which obviously would be a major consideration in which press to use. But had no influence on the outporing of opinons he received. However, the clue "accuracy" was in his question so opinions, for whatever reasons, about benchrest shooting equipment came to the fore. If in fact, that was the thrust of the origional question then we need only to focus on the loading presses used by many of the top benchrest shooters. In which case light and compact yet highly precise presses such as those made by Dodd tend to be favored, along with similiar copies. But if the "single caliber" requested by Mr. Peterson happened to be a .38 Special, or .505 Gibbs, the "best press" for the job might very well be quite diferent. Or was Mr. Peterson just making conversation?

 

[Fatelvis]

Yep the "Made in China" really unsold me,adios RCBS.

Is this true? RCBS imports from China? Since when?

 

[Ol` Joe]

RCBS buys their raw castings from China and machines them here. They are not truely "Made in China".

 

[snuffy]

Email was sent at 2:30 yesterday. No answer yet. I'll post the answer if and when I get one.

In just about all other areas of life, you get what you pay for.

Why would reloading tools be any different???

I know people who load decent ammo on Lee tools. They work. And I applaud Richard Lee for getting hundreds of thousands of people into the handloading hobby, who otherwise probably wouldn't have started without the cheap Lee tools. They can be a great starter set.
But to say that they are of equal quality to Forster, RCBS, Redding, Lyman, C-H etc, is simply to insult our intelligence.

Then you obviously have NOT loaded anything on the Lee classic cast. I'm saying it's a better press than my Bonanza co-ax, or the RCBS rockchucker I had for years before I got the co-ax.

The only Lyman press I ever had was an old spar-T. It was a POS! I gave it away, couldn't see charging the guy that took it off my hands!

I don't know about Redding. Never had a chance to use one.

As for the cost difference--I don't know how Lee makes such a good press at that price. He's obviously making money on it, makes you wonder how much RCBS and the others are making if lee can out-do them for less.

 

[EMC45]

I have a Lee CC, Lee "C" frame, and a Rockchucker. By far the Lee Classic Cast is the best of them all. It does not require the "cam over" the RC does. I like the RC, it does all my rifle ammo. The Lee CC does my pistol ammo. The "C" frame does the pass through bullet sizing and de-capping duties. The Lee CC cost me 30 bucks new from a guy who never mounted it. The RC was in the kit form bought from Cabela's. The "C" frame was a package deal from Midway. It was the press and the 2nd edition Lee Loading Manual for about 22 bucks! I also have a Pacific single stage sitting in the closet waiting on a buyer...

 

[GW Staar]

I have a dollar that says if the good folks at Lee answer snuffy's Classic Cast question - iron or steel - the answer will come back steel.

Any takers?

Geeze, I hope it is steel, so the folks I seemed to have flamed by simply reporting the specs Lee themselves printed, will settle down! Come on, I didn't go the the RCBS, Redding, Forster sites to find anti-Lee propaganda. I went to Lee, and you'd think they'd have the right specs.

To the O.P.: Cast iron or steel...either way...the major T.O.L. presses today are all strong enough, maybe even over-built, to do the job for years. Hell, even some of the Aluminum presses do the job. How many years without problems, is usually reflected by a warranty. How long the users of the machines last usually depends on the compound leverage available. IMO, the new Classic Cast linkage, is the biggest Lee improvement in years. A feature (good compound leverage) that users of Forster, Redding, and RCBS have alway enjoyed.

Quoting myself (in my first post):

Now on reliability. How serious are you about that? A lifetime guarantee on your press may be more important than a two year one, but that's a personal choice. I don't think my RCBS Rock Chucker is the best of the best. That may very well be a Redding or a Forester. Depends whether you are a Ford man or a Chevy man (figuratively). My equipment has lasted me 40 years now, and none of it shows any signs of causing me to test RCBS's life time warranty. Not surprised, are you? Maybe the Lee, Forster, Redding machines are better....how do you test that? More than good enough, has been good enough for me...and you know, if I'd bought a Redding or Forster, I'd probably feel the same way about them.

Oh, btw, I bought a Lee first. It was a Lee Loader. It only had to last two months though, since I started using the Rock Chucker after that. I liked it, but I got impatient...kinda like how after these 40 years I got impatient again...and bought an RCBS Pro 2000.

Any of the products we've talked about can load good ammo...pick the one that suits your needs and expectations. Don't get swayed by the the people trying to justify their last purchase, or those who think their brand is it and the rest is crap.

Nowhere did I "slime" Lee as Ranger suggests. RCBS got slimed a few times...as usual. Ranger said, "if I had to replace my old RC next week it would be with a CC specifically FOR quality and precision!". He may have to help it along...with a sledge...why wait...sell the POS to some poor sucker who only sees "green".

I admit I did poke some fun at Mr. Lee for poking fun at beefier presses years ago with his one-of-kind, Special-Poke-Fun-at-the-Competition Turret Press with its matchstick-sized support columns, and following that by making the beefier (over-built in his eyes?) Classic Cast renditions.

The only thing I have against Lee is that a guy can get reamed for merely quoting their own published specs. Now somebody's probably going to tell me their 2 year replacement warranty is fiction too.

P.S. To the O.P. if I was young again, with the limited funds I had then, or even if I were starting out today and never heard of RCBS, Redding, Forster, and Lee. I'd probably buy the Lee. It's just too good a value to pass up. That said, I'm sure not going to sell my Rock Crusher (or Pro 2000) to get Lee equipment. I'm am looking for justification to add a third press...and if sucessful, it'll be a Lee Classic Turret (for the feature set). My advice to the O.P. is that that machine is more useful than ANY single, and it's cheaper than some of them....but you didn't ask about turrets.

I got to add just one more thing, about the original Target Lee Loader, I started with. The best group I ever shot with a plain Jane factory rifle (Remington 600 Mohawk in .243) was with that product! It was one tiny half inch hole at a 100 yds. My friend with the scope told me I missed shots 2 thru 5, but it was obvious to us both after approaching the target, that there was no misses. But like I said, I got impatient, and there was no Lee Classic Cast in those days. That isn't sliming Lee either. OK, I'm done posting. I apologize for the books...I only wanted to help.

 

[snuffy]

Well, here it is!! It seems we're all wrong, or all right, depending on how you look at it.

Both of the frames are made of cast iron. What we do is take the railroad rails, melt them down and add carbon to it to turn it back into iron. We then pour the melted iron into the castings to make the frames. The castings then get ground down and powder coated. I hope this information helps you in your defense case! If you would like any information or pictures, please let us know and we can supply you with more. Thank you for your support of Lee Precision and our products!

Thank You
Lee Precision

At 02:35 PM 5/10/2010, you wrote:

This question comes up all the time on the handloading forums, are the classic cast and classic turret BODIES made of steel or cast iron.

When clicking on classic cast on your website, it's described thushly;

A rigid cast 'iron' frame, cast and machined with pride in the USA, baked powder finish and all steel linkage make this one of the most attractive and sturdy presses made.

But further down that page you show railroad rials being smelted and poured into castings for the classic cast, which would, OF COURSE be steel. Please clarify this, and maybe change the description in your adds.

I'm certainly no metallurgist. I didn't know you could un-make steel, by adding carbon to turn it back into iron. However I do know that machining cast iron is easier that steel. That could be the main reason for altering the steel rails.

Thanks to the people at Lee for the quick answer to my question. GW, does this qualify as factual enough?

 

[MCMXI]

I'm certainly no metallurgist. I didn't know you could un-make steel, by adding carbon to turn it back into iron.

I think what they mean is that they add carbon back into the liquid steel to make it into cast iron. Cast iron has considerably more carbon in it than low, medium or high carbon steels. The sentence should read ...

"Both of the frames are made of cast iron. What we do is take the railroad rails, melt them down and add carbon to it to turn it [strike]back[/strike] into cast iron."

That's my understanding at least.

 

[flashhole]

I hope a metalurgist weighs in on this and can tell us the reason for adding the carbon. It might be a mold-flow issue. It might be an ease-of-machining issue. I don't know, but Lee's answer is surprising to me.

 

[MCMXI]

I hope a metalurgist weighs in on this and can tell us the reason for adding the carbon. It might be a mold-flow issue. It might be an ease-of-machining issue. I don't know

Seriously? They want to make a cast iron part from a melted steel alloy that has insufficient carbon ... so they have to add carbon ... why the confusion?

 

[flashhole]

I don't know what constitutes or classifies cast iron as cast iron. What is the recipe? High carbon content iron? I always thought you added carbon to iron to make steel.

 

[MCMXI]

I don't know what constitutes or classifies cast iron as cast iron. What is the recipe? High carbon content iron? I always thought you added carbon to iron to make steel.

Carbon is added to Fe to make steel or cast iron. The amount of carbon added determines (in part) what alloy you end up with. Here's a guide from Wikipedia.

Low carbon steel - 0.05–0.15 wt% C
Mild steel - 0.16–0.29 wt% C
Medium carbon steel - 0.30–0.59 wt% C
High carbon steel - 0.6–0.99 wt% C
Ultra-high carbon steel - 1.0–2.0 wt% C
Cast iron - 2.1 to 4 wt% C

 

[snuffy]

Further down that page, I see that Lee has a quick change base for the classic turret and classic cast! I WILL be ordering one of those as soon as I find just where they are offered. I often wished I could move the classic turret and cast, but unbolting them would take WAY too much time.

Remember when I said that? Well I ordered the quick change base direct from the Lee website, got the mount in 2 days!

I just got it mounted yesterday. Went to use the classic turret today to load some 7.62 X 54. Everything was progressing just fine, sizing was all done,(using it as a single stage), when I went to prime, the press popped out of the base, nearly dropped the whole thing! I wish I could have seen a better picture BEFORE I ordered it. The design is STOOPID! The part the press is bolted to is held by 2 little brackets that are SUPPOSED to clamp the triangular board to the steel base. Problem is those brackets have almost no holding power, the triangular plywood board only has to move a tiny amount to slip out from under the brackets, allowing the press to be completely free from anything holding it.

I solved the problem for now by putting a couple of emory boards between the wood and steel base, then cranking the 4 screws that hold the brackets down tight. Seems to have made it usable.

You'd better believe an email is going out tonight to Lee asking if they really thought this through before offering it. !:banghead:

 

[flashhole]

So snuffy, can we assume you don't give a thumbs-up to those folks considering buying the quick change base?

 

[snuffy]

So snuffy, can we assume you don't give a thumbs-up to those folks considering buying the quick change base?

Flash, that would be the understatement of the year! I'm gonna call Lee tomorrow instead of send an email. I'll be civil, I promise! Generally they make good-to-great equipment, so I'm looking forward to their ideas on how this is supposed to work. Either the plywood base is too thin, or the "Z" bracket isn't made right. If they don't come up with a cure, I'll modify it to make it work!