Which weight (9mm) for best performance

[Amadeus]

I'm trying to decide which Personal Protection round I should try. I'm looking at the 9mm Gold Dot Speers but cannot decide which weight I feel better about.

9mm shooters...with which weight JHP bullet do you get best your best accuracy, penetration, and expansion. 115grains, 124grains, or 147 grains?

What length barrel serves as the runway for your round of choice?

 

[DigMe]

It's not really general weight that you should look at but performance of the specific round. There are good-performing rounds in several weights.

In the Speer Gold Dots 147 gr and 124gr +p have shown good terminal and ballistic performance. Shoot them both and see what feels and shoots best out of your gun.

brad cook

 

[DonGlock26]

I agree with DigMe.

 

[Sean Smith]

Bottom line is, there is no consensus which is best... just alot of competing arguments. The closest thing to a consensus "best" 9mm self-defense load is the Winchester RA9TA 127gr +P+.

http://www.proload.com/shoppingcart/targetammo.asp?show_cal=22

The rule of thumb is that lighter bullets in a given caliber give you less penetration, more velocity, and more kinetic energy. Some people argue for the extremes, but I'd suggest the best bet is to go with a middleweight 124-127gr +P/+P+ load. Test several and see which ones are reliable and most accurate from your specific gun.

The Winchester 127gr +P+ stuff I tried WAS very good... 100% reliable from the CZ-75B and SIG P210 I tested it in, no flash, very accurate and loaded HOT.

 

[cratz2]

Yeah, discounting having to penetrate hard barriers then damage soft tissue, I'd probably have to put my money on the 127 Gr +P+ Ranger Talons as the best 9mm ammo assuming it functions 100% in your pistol of choice. And the 124 Gr +P Gold Dots are pretty well known to do their job well.

I like the 124-127 weights and they seem to function most reliably in a large number of pistols. The 115s will offer less penetration though I have plenty of faith in the +P CorBon 115s. The 147s are known for superior penetration... one of the better penetrating rounds of many hard barriers but some guns will have issues feeding the 147s and the general tendancy is for the shorter barrels to not get 147 grainers up to speed as reliably.

The other consideration is recoil. I'm not particularly recoil sensitive but some folks don't like a quick 'snap' type of recoil where the muzzle jumps up more than the gun going back into the hand. The standard pressure 147 grain loads are going to be among the least muzzle flippy choices while the super high velocity 115s are going to have the most muzzle flip. For me, this really isn't a consideration but it may be worth thinking about for some folks.

 

[PO2Hammer]

I'll go along with 124-127 grainers (+p). I use Corbon 125's because thats whats readily available. I use a 6" HK to get every f.p.s. out of them that I can.

 

[PCRCCW]

Hmmmm a 6" barrel with 115 Corbons is probably around 1450+ FPS......... Can you san smokin????

Id agree for an all around best performance weight Id have to say the mid weights are the best in 9mm.........124-127gr.......the Rangers are said to be the nasiest of them all. I guess Ill have to try mine out sometime soon.

Shoot well.

 

[bradvanhorn]

I'd echo just about all the comments already posted here. Everyone has their own opinion, mostly based on some article or another we've read in the gun press, and unfortunately, there is no magic formula. I like the Remington 124gr Golden Sabre, but I don't expect it to be a miracle performer.

In general I am unconvinced that we can tell anything about what a bullet will do to a human being - knowing each one of us is a different height, weight, build, etc. - based on the lab tests we've devised for such purpose. Shooting blocks of gelatin may produce nice mushroomed hollow points to write about, but that's no guarantee it will work that way on the street when you put that same round into a bad guy.

I think that if you buy quality ammo that feeds, fires, and cycles the weapon with top reliability, then you probably can't go wrong, no matter the design.

 

[PO2Hammer]

Yeah the 115's would be flyin'. With the 6" polygonal barrel, I'd bet the corbon 125's are well over 1300 f.p.s. Accuracy like a laser.
Hey PCRCCW, that leather link-your shop? Got anything for a USP Elite 6"?

 

[Lennyjoe]

Im partial to the Black Hills Ammunition 124gr +P Gold Dot JHP.

430 lbs of energy at the muzzle so the website says.

 

[JohnKSa]

My very general and not particularly scientific rule of thumb.

Standard pressure: 115gr

+P: 115gr or 124gr--pick based on a load you like and your gun shoots well.

+P+: 124gr

When should you use the 147 grainers? [feeble humor]When you fit a silencer to your gun. [/feeble humor]

 

[Brigrat]

Or when you want adequate penetration!

 

[JohnKSa]

I haven't done an extensive study, but from what I've seen, premium self defense ammunition penetration numbers (in the typical self-defense calibers 9mm, .40, .45) are pretty uniform. Pretty much regardless of bullet weight.

That is because the ammo makers design their self-defense ammunition to have pretty uniform penetration numbers--remember overpenetration is high on the list of no-no's.

In other words, I'd be surprised if premium 147gr JHPs, on average, penetrate appreciably more than premium 124gr JHPs. I'll bet the penetration numbers over all are a lot more similar than they are different--you might get an extra inch or so on average out of the heavier bullets--maybe not even that.

If you have the patience and eyesight to pore over the tiny data table on this website, you may either prove me right or wrong...

http://apollo.demigod.org/~zak/firearms/fbi-pistol.php

 

[capt_happypants]

Speer Gold Dot 124 grain +P, mainly because it's available at most gun shops.

 

[WonderNine]

I'm firmly in the 124-127gr. +P to +P+ camp. I don't think that 115gr. are the ideal weight for the round regarding penetration and reliability. I think that 147gr. are kind of pointless. You're not going to get any better penetration and it's going to have less energy. And while I'm not a big advocate of hollowpoint ammo the 147gr.'s seem to be less reliable in the expansion department.

 

[Quack]

try AmmoLab for tests on different loads.
http://ammolab.com/9mm_section1.htm
http://ammolab.com/9mm_section2.htm

 

[Brigrat]

124's do offer decent penetration, 115's on the other hand are pretty consistently under penetrators. I have seen the testing with my own eyes, and for that reason, I carry 124+p GD in longer barrelled guns, and 147GD in short barrel guns.

 

[JohnKSa]

Brigrat,

Did you look at the link I posted? I finally did.

The average penetrations by bullet weights are below.

115gr 11"
124gr 12.6"
147gr 16.1"

But that's not the whole story. Average wound volumes gelatin are much closer

115gr 3.03 cu-in
124gr 3.62 cu-in
147gr 3.68 cu-in

In other words, almost everything the 147s gain in deeper penetration (particularly compared to the 124 gr bullets) they give back in poorer expansion.

It's actually worse than that. The wound volume numbers assume that the bullet never leaves the body. Average penetration numbers on the 147 grainers imply that exits are very likely while the 115gr & 124 gr numbers make it look like exits are going to be rare. That will further reduce the true wound volume of the 147 grainers compared to the lighter bullets. I.e. you can't really count all 16" of wound volume since it only takes about 12" of penetration to shoot all the way through a torso--the rest of that penetration is wasted on air (or a bystander.)

If penetration is your main criteria then there's little reason to choose 124 grain over 115 grain--there's only about 1.5" difference in penetration.

If wound volume is your thing, it looks like the 124 is the winner when you take the possibility of overpenetration into account.

The 147s in a short barrel gun will just make the expansion problem worse.

 

[bradvanhorn]

JohnKSa - I think you just presented a good snapshot of the situation. On the other hand, you just made statement which is strikingly similar to the Marshall/Sanow theory, which depending on who you talk to is either gospel or blasphemy.

My problem with 147gr loads is that they wouldn't cycle properly in most of my guns. My Sig handled them most, but not all, of the time, and my Kel-Tec wouldn't work with them at all. Switching to 115gr and/or 124gr loads fixed that problem entirely. (My Beretta didn't have much trouble, but by the time I'd bought it, I had pretty much given up on 147gr loads.)