White guilt...

[hillbilly]

Getting back to the original thread of Shelby Steele's piece, I agree with him too.

The US has been guilted into pussyfooting around in its wars.

American military decisions are often made with lots and lots of concern about being called racist, imperialist, Eurocentrist, chauvanist, and every other "ist" or "ism" you can think of.

Friends of mine who've served in Iraq and Afghanistan have all told me horror stories of idiotic policies being followed, and US troops getting killed because tactics and decisions were based on culturally-sensitive politically-correct platitudes.

Like a street of hostiles (Fedayeen mostly) during the actual initial invasion being engaged with a series of "gun runs" by Bradley vehicles to the cost of several US gunners, instead of the whole street just being leveled, because leveling the whole street wouldn't have looked very culturally or racially sensitive to the press.

I agree with Shelby Steele that many times, American military decisions are not based on military expediency, or even what's best for our troops, but on hazy vague politically-correct platitudes and fear of being labeled.

One more story.

Another friend of mine who served a year in Taji, Iraq, constantly griped about the very strict rules against US servicemen being allowed beer or girlie magazines. The Army was being very strict in not offending the Islamic sensibilities of the Iraqis, you see. Wouldn't want to look like ill-mannered cultural imperialists......

However, any soldier who needed a beer or a wanted to some porn just had to go over the Iraqi officers in the communications center for the hook up. Any sort of alcohol or "ficky-ficky" movie could easily be had for a few dinars or dollars.

hillbilly

 

[CAnnoneer]

Sorry, but this country owes its identity and progress today as much to all of its major racial groups as it does to only one.

"As much" is going too far and reeks of PC. While some contributions of other races were certainly there, e.g. blacks in harvesting cotton in the South and asians in mining and in building the transcontinental railroads, the reality is that most of the country was built by whites and using whites' technology. Deal with it.

 

[shootinstudent]

"As much" is going too far and reeks of PC. While some contributions of other races were certainly there, e.g. blacks in harvesting cotton in the South and asians in mining and in building the transcontinental railroads, the reality is that most of the country was built by whites and using whites' technology. Deal with it.

You don't think agriculture and transcontinental railroads were as much responsible for America's industrial growth as anything else?

You cite two of the most important industries in the entire country (especially at that time), and then dismiss it. That makes no sense and is part of the same "whites built everything here" mentality that I was responding to above.

If it weren't for the work force, all those "white" engineering smarts would've been for nil. And we also have the minority communities to thank for not destroying our country with revolutionary violence, which is a road they could've righteously taken at many points during the 20th century.

I think the only thing to be dealt with here is the "whites alone made our nation great" myth.

 

[Cosmoline]

There is no such thing as the "white race." I have far more in common with most black Americans than I do with the average white Brit or Australian. About two minutes talking to the likes of Agricola are enough to prove it They think differently, act differently and view the universe itself differently than we do. Like liberals or people from New Jersey or Southern California, they're essentially an alien species. This IN SPITE of our shared history and language, not to mention our shared so-called "race." White is a skin color, nothing more.

I tend to agree that we're keeping the gloves on in Afghanistan and Iraq. But we also kept them on in Serbia, in spite of all the slavic screaming and protestations. We keep them on because we're trying to be the guy with the white hat on the white horse, not because we're afraid of being the white guy.

 

[longeyes]

If it weren't for the work force, all those "white" engineering smarts would've been for nil. And we also have the minority communities to thank for not destroying our country with revolutionary violence, which is a road they could've righteously taken at many points during the 20th century.

There may be no "white" race but there is very definitely an Anglo-European-American culture that goes back to the Greeks and continues on to the Woz. We'll see how well the de-Woz'd America does. The "minority communities" would have done better if they'd overthrown the "white oppressor?" Where's the evidence for that? It's boring to have to re-fight tedious old battles that get us nowhere but only unleash atavistic angers. As for thanking them for not tearing America apart, "righteously," well, no thanks, sorry, I'm not buying that. I think they were just waiting for a better opportunity, when they'd have ample allies among the self-loathing elites we've managed to spawn. Perhaps America is about to split between the guilty and the unguilty. When push comes to shove I'll put my money on the unguilty.

 

[Art Eatman]

Relax, shootinstudent. Everybody contributed, one way or another. Railroads? Earliest days, whites, mostly. Then came the Chinese building eastward; the Irish were predominant on the westward construction. One-third of post-Civil War cowboys were black. Many of the western ranches were English-owned.

The Wright brothers were white. Lincoln had the idea that one nation was more important than individual or state sovereignty. MLK had the idea that all should not only be equal but should stand on their own hind legs and take responsibility for their own well-being.

Everybody has contributed something, for good or ill. Some more than others.

So what?

What we're talking about is the extension of "Liberal Guilt" onto a much larger arena. Once people learn that creating a victim group from whole cloth is possible and that they can gain political power and money thereby, it's a normal progression to enlarge the playing field. Ergo, "White Guilt".

Cherchez el dinero. Cherchez the political stroke and clout. As with the present structure of welfare, none of this will do doodly-squat for the alleged beneficiearies that really amounts to much more than basic survival--and they already have that from their own efforts.

Decades back, somebody from the Communist side spoke of "Useful Idiots". One way or another, those useful idiots still exist.

Art

 

[DRZinn]

IF something like that happened, I'd say that 20-40% of the gun population would go there just to be able to shoot a black person and get away with it.

That's called projection. Look it up. And then stop doing it.

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

Oh come on, Warrior. Your white supremacy arguments sound like the same arguments I used to have with a white South African co-worker a couple years ago.

Whites treated each other horribly in the middle ages and renaissance. You have no doubt heard of feudalism? You see, the people got very mad at feudalism, and began to break with it, and then, the Europeans, who had developed navigation to a high level were able to put excess members of their society elsewhere, dampening the pressure the aristocracy and the church put on the people. You still had the French Revolution, and later in the 19th and early 20th century revolts against aristocratic, and later merchant power, but it was on a lower key, and lessened level, because "troublemakers" like the puritans, the dutch protestants, and the Hugenots could be shipped off to America or Africa. The poor in general could have land in the new world, or Africa.

Before whites got to the New World, and Africa, they were just as nasty to each other as Africans, and South Americans are to each other today.

As far as the whole shooting black people thing, where are you living man? 1930.

There is an old family story from my mothers side of the family about us defending our ancestral farm from white hooded men. My great great grandfather and grandmother sat outside the old farmhouse, him with a Henry rifle, and her with a double barreled shottie. He yelled, "You might kill us, but we're gonna take some of you s.o.b. s down before you do!"

That is my attitude concerning people of your ilk that think killing us brown skinned people to tolerable.

 

[Cosmoline]

There may be no "white" race but there is very definitely an Anglo-European-American culture that goes back to the Greeks and continues on to the Woz.

I see. So barbarian Anglo Saxon tribes didn't invade Celtic Britain, it was really the GREEKS! I'm just going to have to turn in my BA in History.

Not only is there no Anglo-Saxon-Greek-Whatever culture in the US, the best thing about this country is the fact that we told the Brits to take a hike. The second best thing is the fact that we continue to infuriate them with all our firearms and muddy boots.

IF something like that happened, I'd say that 20-40% of the gun population would go there just to be able to shoot a black person and get away with it.

I'd go there just to set stormfront trash on fire and watch them dance.

Whites did FANTASTIC in Europe, creating a civilized society, for the most part, trade, technology, culture, arts, and we did it on our own, again for the most part.

Yeah, and look at all their wonderful gun laws. Those people have NOTHING in common with me. We are not and never were part of the same race, and it's a direct personal insult to suggest we were. I thank the Lord my people had the good sense to get out of that "fantastic" place before it plunged itself into a series of genocidal wars worse than anything darkest Africa has ever seen.

 

[Master Shake]

Ethnic pride is f***ing supid.I'm not proud of Thomas Jefferson's or George Mason's accomplishments because they are white folk.I'm proud of them because of the ideas they had that created the "fee nation" that I'm lucky enough to have been born in.[As far as being a free nation goes we have long journey ahead to restore it:such as repealing the income tax,the federal reserve,the war on drugs,and ALL GUN CONTROL]
These men did not work to create a free nation because of they had white skin.They worked to create a free nation because they believed that it was thier moral responsibillity to stand against tyrrany.The fact that they had white skin was a product of genetics.Its true that white people durring our nation's founding had more personal freedom than darkies or indians.Anglo culture had been working toward protecting individual freedoom since the Magna Carta, almost 600 years.Sure,the Magna Carta only protected feudal lords from the King,but the ball started rolling down hill.When the chance came up for "poor white trash"to colonize the "New World" and own their own land many jumped at it.
After suffering a long boat ride and 5 to 7 years of "indentured service"[also called white slavery,many of these people did not volunteer]those who were left could hack a piece of property out of the wilderness.They often had to fight for it with the natives or competeing european colonists and armies.The native folk lost because they were fighting a technologicaly and moraly superior enemy.They could not work bronze or steel or create gunpowder and had little or no concept of private property.The same was true of imported black folk from Africa.Many of them were already slaves of a local enemy tribe in their homeland before they were sold to european scum.Those people didn't get massacared and enslaved based soley on skin color,it was because their civilization and culture was outclassed.
By the time our revolution began many of our warriors were poor white men with a homestead on the frontier or constant employment in a large city.A large middle class was growing.These men were literate and understood personal freedom and responsibility.Not because of a genetic lottery but because the civilization created by their ancestors was moveing foreward[we are now moveing backward].
Fast foreward 200 years.Many of us are being taught that because some of our Founding Fathers owned slaves, that America is evil and moraly irrelevant.[George Mason refused to sign the Constitution because it did not prohibit slavery,what a racist bastard]Today minority folk in the U.S.A have special goverment privelages that most white folk could never dream of.The gov. grants them special "rights" to federal money,college funds,houseing,and emploment at the exspence of us taxpayers.Many of these tax payers are brown, yellow and black folk that are honest and don't fall into the trap of ETHNIC PRIDE.They create an honest buck and expect the rest of us to do the same.We need more folk like that in the U.S.I don't care if they are chinks,niggars,spics,or honkeys.If you want to live here and pay you own way I WELCOME YOU.
Wether you worship Buddah,Allah,Thor,Jesus,or the trees in your backyard.If you keep your word even to your own peril,stand on your own feet, and let other live their own lives,join me in loveing this nation.

 

[BigG]

...there are millions of whites who only feel goodwill toward minorities.

This guy is hopelessly out of touch on this. Most whites are totally uninvolved with such issues. They will parrot some PC crap, yes, but are too busy pursuing their self interest to give a dang about anybody but numero uno, or immediate family at best. Watch where they spend their money. That's where their true interest is. Don't see a lot of charitable work for "underprivileged" minorities, which I would expect if they felt "goodwill."

 

[LAK]

shootinstudent

and second, because it pretends that having armies of black and asian slaves didn't have anything to do with building the country. .. [etc]

Civilized culture and applied intellect built this nation.

Labor in civilized cultures has never been limited to slavery. While slavery has sometimes provided the cheapest labor, the devopement of civilized nations - including our own - has certainly not depended on it.

Slavery existed all over the world, especially in the uncivilized cultures, when this country was founded. It still exists around the world in various forms. We have yet to see any of the uncivilized cultures do anything constructive with it - or without it.

----------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[Don Gwinn]

We're getting very close to the part where I close this.

How many of the white gun-owners on this board, while not being 'racist', probably don't have much love for blacks and mexicans? IF something like that happened, I'd say that 20-40% of the gun population would go there just to be able to shoot a black person and get away with it.

That's disgusting and self-contradictory. If someone who wants to shoot a person just because they're the wrong race, and that's not enough to make him a racist, just what exactly would someone have to do before you would admit the existence of racism?


This is not the High Road.

 

[Ezekiel]

That's disgusting and self-contradictory.

[cough] "You're being kind."

"mia so very culpa about what happened 300 years ago"

"Wouldst that it be so very long ago." (But the point is valid.)

They will parrot some PC crap, yes, but are too busy pursuing their self interest to give a dang about anybody but numero uno, or immediate family at best.

This, however, is perfect. At this point, the most universal "culture" anyone in the United States shares is eloquently expressed for the masses! Essentially, folks are all greedy bastards (capitalists?).

Citizens buy into elaborate and stratified sections of humanity for a simple reason: to set themselves apart for greater share of the spoils. In this sense, pride typically equals greed with all peoples involved.

"But it's not worth shooting anyone, I think."

The US has been guilted into pussyfooting around in its wars.

Unfortunately true. It's just so damned hard to rationalize war in any sense. It is, by it's very nature, irrational.

"We must fully commit to it (no guilt) and make it stop (win) as quickly as possible."

 

[longeyes]

Citizen died when Consumer was born.

 

[agricola]

This is a pretty silly thread.

The idea of lumping people into "race" groups, however fashionable it has been for the past hundred and fifty years, is fundamentally rubbish, and the various racial-pride groups and authors should be ashamed that they have pretty much singlehandedly ressurrected what (after WW2) was a disgraced and thoroughly disproven idea.

This has of course resulted in the bizarre hypocrisy of "black pride" being championed at the highest level, wheras "white pride" is directly equated with deep racism by the same people, almost all of whom are white, who laud "black pride".

As for the original idea of the thread, we are unfortunately living in a society led by those who have forgotten the lessons of the last century. Appeasement never works, and nor does losing either military strength or the will to take severe measures against those who you are in conflict with.

The West did not come to dominate the world because it was more democratic or more free than the rest, nor because it was more financially successful than the rest of the world, but because it was (and has been, with a few interruptions, since the third century BC) the most militarily powerful area of the world; the only thing holding it back has been the endless wars amongst itself, which is why between 1812 (when the wars, with one or two interruptions) and 1914 almost the entire world was subdued by one Western power or another. That overwhelming military lead has not gone away either; if the shackles our society has imposed was removed we could probably do it again.

 

[LoadAmmo]

I disagree with the notion that "whites" built America.

You are correct. All the men who signed their names on the Declaration of Independence were African-American, and Thomas Jefferson was Korean.

Every, single, man, who, signed, the, declaration, was, white european.

What is a "white man"?

Gee I dunno? A guy with white skin with European blood? Oh wait... According to the white bashers on this board the 'White Man' is a myth! Heck I didn't know that. That's great to know. I guess my Blond Hair and Blue Eyes makes me Philipino. Hope I can get scholarships now

If somebody has a drop of Indian or whatever and doesn't want to Identify with 95% of his racial makeup, then he doesn't have too!

 

[Manedwolf]

Not only is there no Anglo-Saxon-Greek-Whatever culture in the US, the best thing about this country is the fact that we told the Brits to take a hike. The second best thing is the fact that we continue to infuriate them with all our firearms and muddy boots.

Actually, at least the culture of government as the founding fathers intended it was strongly based on their ideas of the best parts of Greco-Roman culture. We borrowed the Roman mottoes and banner standards and the very idea of the Senate and such, and as for the Grecian influence, besides the works of philosophers...well, just look at the buildings in D.C.

That persisted in all levels of culture as well, well into this century.

For example, here's an ancient Roman red-brick insulae, or apartment building, as there were thousands and thousands of in Rome and other cities of the empire. Looks rather a LOT like late 19th century American styles, doesn't it? Even to the keystoned windows. They even had fast-food takeout places for people in apartments who didn't cook.

 

[cordex]

Warrior,
If you're going to take credit for the good things that people with similarly colored skin have brought about, don't you have to take responsibility for their historically evil actions too? Or are you allowed to pick and choose?

I put people who go on and on about white pride in the same category as I do people who go on and on about black pride.

[P]eople who boast of ancestry often have little else to sustain them.

 

[Cosmoline]

Actually, at least the culture of government as the founding fathers intended it was strongly based on their ideas of the best parts of Greco-Roman culture. We borrowed the Roman mottoes and banner standards and the very idea of the Senate and such, and as for the Grecian influence, besides the works of philosophers...well, just look at the buildings in D.C

You are confusing ideas with blood. This Republic was founded in part on those ideals, along with Enlightenment philosphy and Judeo-Christian ethics. But that has NOTHING to do with race. They saw some merit in the classical republican virtues and wanted to borrow the best elements for their new nation. You can also find a great deal of Chinese-influenced design in the early part of the 19th century. That doesn't mean the people making the "Chinesed" furniture were Chinese.

Every, single, man, who, signed, the, declaration, was, white european.

DEAD WRONG. Every single man who signed the declaration was AMERICAN!

 

[K-Romulus]

seems MrBenchley has a sock puppet over here at THR . . .

 

[Cosmoline]

Why didnt' your ancestors, upset with slavery, return to Africa? I'd hate for them to have to live in this racist nation made up of the worst creatures to walk the earth, white people.

Hey, sparky. You're the one who seems to love Europe so much. WHY DON'T YOU GO BACK THERE?

 

[cosine]

White nations work best when they are made up of mainly white people, all working for the advancement of the nation.

No comment but .

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Every single man who signed the declaration was AMERICAN!

+ infinity cosmoline.

My White, Cherokee, Arabic-North African ancestors must have seen
something of value in each race.

 

[Cosmoline]

I can trace family members that died making this country and fighting for it's freedom. Do you think that the average black can?

It would be particularly sad if this worthless nazi puke actually had family members who died in WWII fighting the nazi pukes.