Bigjake
Member
Last week the media had its panties in a tiff over a supposed leak of names to the media of some agent guys wife, anybody have an article or any evidence to support that?? is it true or just another big tinfoil conspiracy??
Whitehouse leaked so & so's name...
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FPrice
Member
Bigjake...
The wife was the agent. The husband was a diplomat. IIRC it was Robert Novak who published the name and refuses to name his source(s). Apparently the husband was critical of the Iraq war and has claimed that the WH leaked his wife's name in order to get back at him. Lots of accusations but no solid lead yet that i am aware of.
The wife was the agent. The husband was a diplomat. IIRC it was Robert Novak who published the name and refuses to name his source(s). Apparently the husband was critical of the Iraq war and has claimed that the WH leaked his wife's name in order to get back at him. Lots of accusations but no solid lead yet that i am aware of.
Bigjake
Member
ah, thanks. BTT. still curious what the rest of you think on this, its going to be a topic of discusion at school tomorow.
Bigjake
Member
The reason i ask, is you get a very broad oppinion spectrum on this board, and with the said diversity it gives me some idea of what the rest of you think and of what others in my gov't class might think. the class itself is a joke and is really just a free for all more than a discussion, and with that, i do better hearing thoughts and arguements ahead of time, so i can think on em! 
unfair? definatly 
unfair? definatly Parker Dean
Member
I have heard reports that Novak has stated that his source was NOT from the White House and that the info was revealed during an interview.
Neither condition sounds like what has the Left in (hypocritical) hysterics but you know how it is.
Neither condition sounds like what has the Left in (hypocritical) hysterics but you know how it is.
ojibweindian
Member
There was a statement posted on Drudge, made by Novak, that the information did not come from White House sources.
My opinion is that the person disclosing the name of the operative is a murderous traitor and should be hanged.
My opinion is that the person disclosing the name of the operative is a murderous traitor and should be hanged.
Not that straightforward, Ojib
still unclear whether this was an "undercover' person or a desk-jockey analyst at Langley. Definitley clear that a guy whose wife is an undercover agent and wants to keep it that way shouldn't publish a big editorial in the NYT attacking tha administration. And it appears that Ms. Plame's occupation was pretty common knowledge in DC already, and that someone at CIA told Novak about her when asked how an anti-Bush partisan was selected for the Niger inquiry.
So we don't even know whether somebody uncovered somebody, much less who done it. But we do know that the Left has suddenly begun to care about the welfare of America's covert agents.
still unclear whether this was an "undercover' person or a desk-jockey analyst at Langley. Definitley clear that a guy whose wife is an undercover agent and wants to keep it that way shouldn't publish a big editorial in the NYT attacking tha administration. And it appears that Ms. Plame's occupation was pretty common knowledge in DC already, and that someone at CIA told Novak about her when asked how an anti-Bush partisan was selected for the Niger inquiry.
So we don't even know whether somebody uncovered somebody, much less who done it. But we do know that the Left has suddenly begun to care about the welfare of America's covert agents.
It's not in any way unclear what she did for the CIA. She ran a network of agents reporting on weapons of mass destruction and efforts to sell them. That network is now at risk. Whoever did it is a traitor.
Keep in mind that Wilson was not "an anti-Bush partisan" until he outed the prez for lying about the Niger Uranium purchase documents in the SOTU.
As for your comment about the left "suddenly caring", if you think that Bush or the right has an exclusive on patriotism, you're offensive as well as incorrect.
Try to imagine baby bush as prez during the Cuban Missile Crisis. We'd all have been living in caves for the last 40 years.
db
Keep in mind that Wilson was not "an anti-Bush partisan" until he outed the prez for lying about the Niger Uranium purchase documents in the SOTU.
As for your comment about the left "suddenly caring", if you think that Bush or the right has an exclusive on patriotism, you're offensive as well as incorrect.
Try to imagine baby bush as prez during the Cuban Missile Crisis. We'd all have been living in caves for the last 40 years.
db
atk
Member
DaveB,
I have heard several conflicting reports on several radio programs about what Ms. Novak's position was, ranging from under cover operative, to analyst, to managing multiple operatives. Could you please cite your sources that make her position so clear?
Thanks,
atk
I have heard several conflicting reports on several radio programs about what Ms. Novak's position was, ranging from under cover operative, to analyst, to managing multiple operatives. Could you please cite your sources that make her position so clear?
Thanks,
atk
Andrew Rothman
Member
Snort.
Conservative, arch-conservative, reactionary conservative, and DaveB.
Matt
I''ll try to find something that those here will take seriously.
Google:
http://www.hillnews.com/marshall/073003.aspx
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030815.html
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/09/30/wilson.cia/
http://www.sacbee.com/content/opinion/story/7510354p-8452342c.html
http://www.drudgereport.com/matt.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0722-04.htm
http://www.newsday.com/news/printed...ery,0,7117365.storygallery?coll=ny-news-print
http://truthout.org/docs_03/100203D.shtml
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/08/10/Perspective/Blown_cover.shtml
I'll stop at 9. I couldn't find anything from newsmax...
db
Google:
http://www.hillnews.com/marshall/073003.aspx
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030815.html
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/09/30/wilson.cia/
http://www.sacbee.com/content/opinion/story/7510354p-8452342c.html
http://www.drudgereport.com/matt.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0722-04.htm
http://www.newsday.com/news/printed...ery,0,7117365.storygallery?coll=ny-news-print
http://truthout.org/docs_03/100203D.shtml
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/08/10/Perspective/Blown_cover.shtml
I'll stop at 9. I couldn't find anything from newsmax...
db
Waitone
Member
1>The law specifically requires covert activities to apply. IIRC it can not be applied willey-nilley. Only specific jobs are permitted coverage.
2>We still don't know what she did for the CIA. An analyst ain't covert.
3>Wilson published his wife's name and occupation in a Who's Who listing.
4>Wilson is a screaming Democrat who has vowed to bring down the Whitehouse.
5>Wilson and his wife has publically speculated who will play their parts when they land a movie deal.
6>The guy who published her name, Novak, did so in mid-July. He also has said repeatedly that no one from the WH outted the lady.
7>Wilson accused Karl Rove as being the outter in the whitehouse. He later retracted the claim.
8>Wilson went to Nigre to see if the claims of Iraqi buying yellowcake were valid. He was a diplomat, not and investigator. He admitted to sitting in the hotel for 8 days drinking tea. When this story broke it was reported Wilson was selected by VP Cheney for the mission. Cheney denies the story. No one seems to know who selected Wilson for the trip to Nigre.
A truly weird story.
2>We still don't know what she did for the CIA. An analyst ain't covert.
3>Wilson published his wife's name and occupation in a Who's Who listing.
4>Wilson is a screaming Democrat who has vowed to bring down the Whitehouse.
5>Wilson and his wife has publically speculated who will play their parts when they land a movie deal.
6>The guy who published her name, Novak, did so in mid-July. He also has said repeatedly that no one from the WH outted the lady.
7>Wilson accused Karl Rove as being the outter in the whitehouse. He later retracted the claim.
8>Wilson went to Nigre to see if the claims of Iraqi buying yellowcake were valid. He was a diplomat, not and investigator. He admitted to sitting in the hotel for 8 days drinking tea. When this story broke it was reported Wilson was selected by VP Cheney for the mission. Cheney denies the story. No one seems to know who selected Wilson for the trip to Nigre.
A truly weird story.
ojibweindian
Member
Khornet
If she's not a covert operative and is, instead, a desk jockey, then I will retract my statement in my last post.
I would also say that it's tough doody for her and her husband.
If she's not a covert operative and is, instead, a desk jockey, then I will retract my statement in my last post.
I would also say that it's tough doody for her and her husband.
bountyhunter
member
Instead of my opinion which is probably not worth much, how about the opinion of the ranking REPUBLICAN member of the senate intelligence committee?
He was on Meet the Press this week and he said:
1) This leak was a critical matter of national security which needed to be investigated immediately and fully.
2) The republicans who are claiming it's all "politics" should sit down and shut up, because it's a real crime and needs to be addressed as such.
3) The fed government should provide the agent with protection because she is probably in increased personal danger.
Incidentally, that is also my opinion. The deafening silence on the republican side following this public statement is probably for obvious reasons. No doubt the dems want to make political hay out of it, but the point is that it is a serious crime.
atk
Member
DaveB,
Thank you for citing the sources.
I read through a bunch of them, and it does appear that she was an operative. Of course, if we're to believe the "vast left wing conspiracy" theory, do you know of any press releases from the CIA indicating what she did/does?
As far as:
Thank you for citing the sources.
I read through a bunch of them, and it does appear that she was an operative. Of course, if we're to believe the "vast left wing conspiracy" theory, do you know of any press releases from the CIA indicating what she did/does?
As far as:
goes, you are the one trying to prove something, not me. Therefore, the onus is on you to provide proof, not upon me to provide disproof. If I (or anyone else) wish to rebut your comments, then, yes, I'm sure we'll do our own search.
bountyhunter
member
It was confirmed that she was a covert op by the members from the intelligence committee on that same Meet the Press show.
bountyhunter
member
Guys... they have acknowledged she was a covert operative... and that blowing her cover put her at risk.
Isn't it kind of silly to think the CIA is going to release specifics on what she does there? remember... this is the CIA.
bountyhunter
member
NOPE. Wilson was also on meet the press. He stopped saying that Rove was the INITIAL leak because he learned that the leak occurred twice about a week apart. His info shows that Rove was in the "second wave" and had said something to the effect of "Her name is out now so she's fair game." Wilson said his source said Rove then supplied the info to several papers to give the story momentum, and accelerate it's spread.
Wilson still maintains Rove leaked the story, just does not say he was the first to do it. Technically, that may get Rove off the hook from prosecution. Or, he may get nailed as part of the whole thing. Time will tell who did what and who gets a stay at Club Fed.
Oh, yeah, THOSE confirmations
that she was covert. Like Johnson: "She was undercover for three decades." Pretty early start, since she's only 40.
The other articles furnish no PROOF that she was undercover, they just flatly call her covert. But the CIA won't say either way. Not that they should, but folk, honestly, that means we still don't know whether she was a covert agent. And if she ever was, was it less than 5 years ago, as the law states it must be to be in violation? She's got twins who are, what, 3 years old now? Doubt she was in a dangerous spook job any more recently than 4 years ago at least.
As with all the other controversies about the Bush admin, we have a whole lotta folks who've already passed sentence before we have any real testimony. It never changes.
And yes, DaveB, concern for CIA operatives IS a new experience for the Left. Just look at how they've hobbled our intelligence going back to the Carter days. The 'don't you dare question my patriotism' rejoinder is beneath you. You can do better than that.
that she was covert. Like Johnson: "She was undercover for three decades." Pretty early start, since she's only 40.
The other articles furnish no PROOF that she was undercover, they just flatly call her covert. But the CIA won't say either way. Not that they should, but folk, honestly, that means we still don't know whether she was a covert agent. And if she ever was, was it less than 5 years ago, as the law states it must be to be in violation? She's got twins who are, what, 3 years old now? Doubt she was in a dangerous spook job any more recently than 4 years ago at least.
As with all the other controversies about the Bush admin, we have a whole lotta folks who've already passed sentence before we have any real testimony. It never changes.
And yes, DaveB, concern for CIA operatives IS a new experience for the Left. Just look at how they've hobbled our intelligence going back to the Carter days. The 'don't you dare question my patriotism' rejoinder is beneath you. You can do better than that.
ARperson
Member
A name would have been nice to go along with his ranking.
As for his comments, I never take anything people say on Meet the Press except for a small group of people, and there are no politicians in that group.
It makes sense that someone would say a leak is a matter of national security. What's he going to say, "Yeah, we blew the bitch's cover. Tough luck for her. But it wasn't us, really?"
It IS all about politics for the Dems because that's all it ever is to them.
If she's in increased personal danger because her name was leaked, her husband should have thought of that before he spilled her name and occupartion years ago.
My guess: since the reporter has stated his source is NOT the WH, it's probably a CIA flunky who thought he'd be big and important by name dropping. Wouldn't be surprised if it's the janitor who cleans her office at night!
Odd, isn't it?
Why hasn't anyone from CIA or other executive branch function come out and said, officially and publicly, whether Plame was a covert operator? I can understand a policy of 'neither confirm nor deny', but now the cat (if there is one) is out of the bag, so why not clear it up?
Dave, I checked all your links. There is no statement resembling any such declaration, just a bunch of anonymous sources, and half the links are frankly partisan editorials. Now I like a frankly partisan editorial as much as the next guy (though probably not the kind you like), but an opinion piece is just that-opinion. So far I haven't come across any official statement about what this lady's job was.
Maybe, if she was undercover, admitting it now would compromise other persons or operations somehow. But they've got to be compromised already by this hubbub. I don't get it. Something has a strong piscatorial bouquet.
Ojibway, I failed to acknowledge your gracious reply. I wasn't asking you to retract anything, just pointing out a few things.
Why hasn't anyone from CIA or other executive branch function come out and said, officially and publicly, whether Plame was a covert operator? I can understand a policy of 'neither confirm nor deny', but now the cat (if there is one) is out of the bag, so why not clear it up?
Dave, I checked all your links. There is no statement resembling any such declaration, just a bunch of anonymous sources, and half the links are frankly partisan editorials. Now I like a frankly partisan editorial as much as the next guy (though probably not the kind you like), but an opinion piece is just that-opinion. So far I haven't come across any official statement about what this lady's job was.
Maybe, if she was undercover, admitting it now would compromise other persons or operations somehow. But they've got to be compromised already by this hubbub. I don't get it. Something has a strong piscatorial bouquet.
Ojibway, I failed to acknowledge your gracious reply. I wasn't asking you to retract anything, just pointing out a few things.
It IS all about politics for the Dems because that's all it ever is to them.
Now, that's the funniest thing I've read here in months. I think I wet myself.
So far I haven't come across any official statement about what this lady's job was.
When was the last time that the CIA publically identified any of their own operatives?
Why does it matter, anyway? Whoever passed her job description to the media was not trying to be helpful. They were trying to get her husband to shut up or, failing that, they were making a not-so-subtle threat against anyone, of any position, who might criticize them in public.
"If we can't get to you, we'll get your family..."
To see it as anything else is to be looking out of one's own belly button.
It's amazing to watch "Patriots" defend the indefensible.
db
Now, that's the funniest thing I've read here in months.
I think I wet myself.So far I haven't come across any official statement about what this lady's job was.
When was the last time that the CIA publically identified any of their own operatives?
Why does it matter, anyway? Whoever passed her job description to the media was not trying to be helpful. They were trying to get her husband to shut up or, failing that, they were making a not-so-subtle threat against anyone, of any position, who might criticize them in public.
"If we can't get to you, we'll get your family..."
To see it as anything else is to be looking out of one's own belly button.
It's amazing to watch "Patriots" defend the indefensible.
db
Sergeant Bob
Member
ARperson
Do you have any links for that info? Not doubting it, just couldn't find it on my own and would like to know more about it.
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