Who do I direct my anger to

[Technosavant]

No. It was stated that 99% were faking it. Are some? Sure. But if it is stated that a certain percentage are, especially 99%, I want to see some damn proof.
Biker

Every shred of information I have ever seen shows that such activity is a choice, not a life into which a person was forced. In the St. Louis area alone, there are a number of places which can and will provide housing and training for homeless people seeking to better their lot in life. Every single time I come across someone asking for cash for whatever reason, they are not interested in help to get to these places. They want cash- they say it is for food, hotel, gas, etc., but they want cash.

Maybe your area has the only truly down and out homeless veterans in the US. Maybe mine has the only guys who aren't. I don't know. But it is remarkable easy for these guys to lie to get what they want, and they do. A previous poster mentioned how some guys ask for details, which they are most often unable to provide.

If something I have said offended you, then I apologize (your tone is getting rather stern). But as I said, in my experience (and I have a decent amount), you can't trust a single word said by a transient who is begging for money. If you wish to believe them, so be it, but understand that many of the rest of us are saving our compassion for places where it will do some good.

 

[Kim]

I have a good friend that is a Vietnam vet. Helo pilot. He said he wished one time someone would tell the stories of the large majority of vietnam vets who came home and lived normal lives. He is sick and tired of all the lies of ---------------they all used drugs, it is because of the war they became drug users, alcoholics, etc. Most did not do so. They are like any other large segment of society. Those who lives turned up a mess use the sympathy of the left and like all others it was someone elses or the wars fault. He says that is a huge big historic lie.

 

[mbs357]

If he was a veteran, what's stopping him from getting those checks that I thought vetrans got?

 

[Biker]

If he was a veteran, what's stopping him from getting those checks that I thought vetrans got?

Could be you thought wrong. If you retire from the military you get a check. If you were disabled in the military, you may or may not get a check and the amount of said check is, on the best of days, not enough for say, Pamala Anderson's dowry. If you did your hitch and ETS'd without incident, you get to go home.
Biker

 

[Zundfolge]

Who do I get mad at here? The federal government?

The Vietnam war ended 3 decades ago ... I could understand if this was 1978 or something, but damn, he's had enough time to straighten his crap out.


I say be mad at nobody ... but be (at least a little) disgusted at him. I seriously doubt his current condition has anything to do with his service.


I have a great deal of respect for anyone who has served his country, but there comes a point where one has to stop living off the past and get on with their lives.


Sorry if that sounds cold.

 

[el44vaquero]

I understand what you are saying. It's sad to see veterans being forgotten and cast aside. I also know that not all are actually veterans as they claim, but there are those out there.

 

[antarti]

First, let me say that although we have enough "charity" going on at home right now, and don't really have anything to spare, the PVA and DVA are the only ones we scratch and dig up a small amount for.

There is something about the idea of a man being crippled, or worse (for life) who did nothing more than trying to serve this country (and keep my family safe) in its time of need that begs for some compassion.

I can't bring myself to turn my back, so I donate to these orgs (and carried their affinity branded credit cards, which they make a small pittance on) in lieu of believing people on the street. I have been told that these are good organizations, and I hope the little I can give is well spent. The vet who told me this was pocked with shrapnel scars, and sported and thru-and-thru bayonet wound. Even though wounds are no indication of honesty, I found it hard not to take him at his word that the money would be well spent.

However, I would save my ire for those who faked the whole Gulf of Tonkin thing in the first place. Your timing is impecable, since it was just last week more papers were declassified, and it looks now like the whole thing was just a big misunderstanding. I would also include anyone who didn't bother to care enough about our guys to actually send them to a "declared war" (which now has become fashionable), and the lack of getting back all our POWs/MIAs that caused.

Personally, I am mad as hell at those folks.

 

[another okie]

If he's hungry, buy him a hamburger. That's our duty as fellow humans, if we can afford it. But I'm not giving anybody on the street cash.

 

[DontBurnMyFlag]

First, thanks for all the input. Second, I would like to clarify. Before I gave him any money I asked him if he was in the military. He told me he was in the marines and told me the years. He did not have the tell tale signs of drug abuse (missing teeth, slurred speech, etc etc) . He was clearly 50+ years old. I feel for the guy and all the other vets out there who sleep on the streets. theres a million factors to blame and I let my emotions get the best of me. If they fought for this country, and all they want is a bottle of liquor, hell...they deserve it. I dont care what it went to as long as he knows he isnt forgotten.

 

[yy]

an aside:

These beggars, whether lying or not, will pay you (personally) back over their next lives in many multiples of the dollar you gave them.

The payback may come in the form of a stranger that just finds you interesting. To a piece of your filet mignon. I'm not too keen on the details of the how.

The point I want to bring up is this: Go ahead and give to a bum/beggar if you believe the bum for the moment. Any sob story will do. Just make sure that you're convinced enough to never regret giving the money away. It's the doubt afterward that waste your time.

Get mad? No need. Let's suppose the beggar was really a vet asking for a handout. (you were there, and he convinced you. no need to second guess) The important thing is that he's where he is by his choice. Another down-on-luck vet may have too much pride to ask for a handout. Know what I mean? Personal responsibility for personal choice.

Don't bother with the exagerated claim of "99% are fake" It's no good as a guide because it's too broad. Instead treat each beggar as a person. Let your gut tell you if you believe the sob story. Again the guide I offer is if you feel you're convinced enough to stay convinced and won't stay up nights worrying about being had. Even when you've been had, really the bum will pay you back whether he likes it or not.

Even if you don't believe in karmas and next lives, consider the psychological rammifications for youself if you simply put the beggar out of your mind after you gave. It's just a healthier way of living and thinking.

 

[carebear]

When I was drafted into the service, Detroit 1968, we were in formation and counted off by 2's. The 1's went to the army and the 2's went to the marines.

I find that hard to believe...

Soldiers can't stand a proper formation and Marines can't count to two.

I save my giving for organizations like the soup kitchens and shelters. The truly needy get a meal and rack and the shysters don't bother using them.

Nobody makes their problem worse with booze/drugs that way.

 

[Art Eatman]

Biker, ease up. In this sort of deal, it's up to the alleged Vet to prove his status.

I got out in 1958. Per the laws of the time, I recorded my DD 214 at the county clerk's office. For my own benefit, I got a small photo copy of my Honorable Discharge, wallet sized. I still have the 214, although I never carried it. For a while, for the fun of it, I carried my Geneva Convention Card that I was issued when I went on occupation duty in Korea.

IOW, I've always been able to prove I was a GI. Were I to trade on that as some sort of grounds to ask for help, I'd sure be able to prove it.

I got out on a medical; TB. No big deal, luckily for me. But I have a track record at the VA, as well. C-20-xxx-xxx.

So: I've had guys walk up and start "the spiel". I merely say, "Prove it." It sure ain't my duty to prove him a liar--nor my need. It's all up to the guy doing the begging. My experience is that they mostly mumble and walk off.

Technosavant may be using hyperbole at "99%", but I'll support the phrasing, "the majority", based on my experience.

Art

 

[carebear]

I got out on a medical; TB.

If we call you "lung'er" will you shoot us?

 

[goon]

I didn't read the whole thread but I do have something to add.
Suppose that you gave up 2 years with your wife, children, brothers and sisters, parents, family dog, and any other loved ones you have.
How much would you deserve in return?
Veterans have given more than many understand.
Not trying to start an argument so please don't take it that way. Just my opinion.

 

[Biker]

Art...

The hyperbole is what gets on my nerve . You don't hear this BS about WWII vets, or Korean War Vets, or any of the other wars after those except for Nam.
Never mind. It don't mean nothin'.
Biker

 

[C96]

DontBurnMyFlag - I share your compassion for real vets, particularly the damaged ones.
One kinda side note, if he really needed insulin, he would also need a prescription
before he could purchase it. It is also a bit expensive, usually more than fifty bucks
a bottle.

Some of us are quite familiar with the price and use of insulin.

Now if he asked for a little wine money.

allan

 

[carebear]

Biker,

I very rarely run into homeless guys claiming to be vets of any other war. It seems like all the posers latched on to Vietnam for the sympathy it now engenders.

I get disheartened by all the WWII (lots fewer nowadays of course) Korea and now Nam vets who aren't homeless but seem to have nowhere left to go but the VFW or Legion Hall. Familys gone or taken, friends dead or dying, just looking for someone to listen.

 

[Biker]

Biker,

I very rarely run into homeless guys claiming to be vets of any other war. It seems like all the posers latched on to Vietnam for the sympathy it now engenders.

I get disheartened by all the WWII (lots fewer nowadays of course) Korea and now Nam vets who aren't homeless but seem to have nowhere left to go but the VFW or Legion Hall. Familys gone or taken, friends dead or dying, just looking for someone to listen.

Could be you're right, Friend. Then again, it's possible that those before and after are old and dying or young and waiting and the Nam Vet's image was corrupted by the actions of a few.
In any case, my wife works at a nursing home. I spend more than a bit of time up there doing what I can for the Vets (and others). I know the score, and it's ugly.
I guess I'll bow out of this discussion. No offense intended to anyone.
Biker

 

[Gillster]

Could be you thought wrong. If you retire from the military you get a check. If you were disabled in the military, you may or may not get a check and the amount of said check is, on the best of days, not enough for say, Pamala Anderson's dowry. If you did your hitch and ETS'd without incident, you get to go home.
Biker

Actually, if any part of your service occured during a time when troops were in combat (even if you weren't) ie you qualify for the national defense ribbon, and you have no source of income, you can recieve a VA pension. It's not a huge wad of cash but it is money. I work for a VA hospital and have for 15 years in a small town for a while and now in a bigger city. I have seen several patients who I know are not homeless and are disabled through bad personal choices (not while in the military) holding signs at roadside intersections looking for handouts.

I agree that those that served, and yes I did 8 years USAF, should be provided for especially if they were injured or disabled during their service. But I don't think that service alone buys you the right to expect the govt to bail you out of all the bad personal choices you make for the rest of your life. If you are a vet and are in need of help, there are a lot of programs available to take advantage of but you need to be proactive and seek them out. If the vet is a diabetic and needs insulin, head to triage at the local VA and sign in, we'll even feed him while he's waiting. VA hospital are not perfect, yes there is some waiting in lines involved, but the help is there if you come through the door.

 

[Ryder]

it took 19 months to get my first appointment at a VA Hospital

Didn't know that could happen. I've been in and out a couple times on the same day. Had to sit and wait for a couple hours each time while they figured out who I was but 19 months? I don't get medical problems that can be put on hold for a year and a half at a time. That's just nuts!

 

[mbs357]

Could be you thought wrong. If you retire from the military you get a check. If you were disabled in the military, you may or may not get a check and the amount of said check is, on the best of days, not enough for say, Pamala Anderson's dowry. If you did your hitch and ETS'd without incident, you get to go home.
Biker

Well, ouch. =/

The Vietnam war ended 3 decades ago ... I could understand if this was 1978 or something, but damn, he's had enough time to straighten his crap out.

I agree.

filet mignon

So THAT'S how you spell that. =X

 

[magyvor]

My sister the Vet.......

I dont know if this is totally related, but I will spout off anyway

My sister is a vet. Shes now 50 years old. She didnt go to any war, but I remember as a kid that she went to some other places in the world, and rumor in the family has it she "Saw Some Action" of some kind...she never has talked to me about it. She was an MP in the army.

So fast forward a million years later....she has had trouble with both drugs and alcohol. She lived on the streets for awhile. I remember times when we wouldnt see her for a couple years at a time. About 2 years ago, she passed out in some ally...she ended up in the hospital, and they found out she was a vet and transfered her to the VA hospital. Turns out she had an anurism(?) in the head, she had MAJOR surgery, almost died. I am glad to say that now shes doing great. She lives on a govmnt facility of some kind, has gone through treatment, has a job, and all from the Govmnt. The thing that almost killed her saved her life. She actually has a life now.

So where am I going with this? Well, when I see a homeless Vet, If I have a buck or 2, I give it up. Is this person really a Vet? I dont know, or care. I can shell out a few bucks to any homeless person, so it doesnt matter. But if I was to blame anyone and be angry, it would be at the Individual. I know there are cases where a few people had no choice, very few cases, and they end up on the streets. Most people who are homeless are there because of choices they made. Period. There are places to go, people to see, and things to do if they want to get help. Especially if your a Vet.

Is the system perfect.....no. Is our society perfect....no. BUT!....Its better than most if we do our part.

And to be honest, if I walk by a homeless person and get angry, its usually because they got more money in their paper cup than I do in my wallet. Maybe I am in the wrong lline of work???

Happy Holidays All Stay safe.

 

[Oldtimer]

Most homeless people fall into certain categories.
They're homeless because of their (A) drug abuse, (B) alcohol abuse, (C) mental health problems, (D) physical disabilities, (E) illiteracy, (F) just downright LAZY and irresponsible, or (G) a combination of the other categories.

Are military veterans homeless BECAUSE of their military background (only)? NO! Add to that, a majority of the homeless that purport to be "vets" have NEVER been in the military! I have talked with hundreds of "homeless vets", but only TWO of them had actually been in the military....and only one had actually seen combat!

Hey, I'm a veteran! A combat vet, to boot! I feel sorry for my fellow vets who sacrificed, and I often visit the nearest VA, just to "BS" with them and give them support. Many don't have any family members, and the only friends they have are in the same situation as they are. VERY gloomy, if you really think about it!

The next time you see a homeless person, go into the nearest grocery store and buy a couple of bucks worth of FOOD for them.....then TRY to get them to accept it! I've done that in the past, but I won't anymore! All too often, I've seen them dump that fresh food in the trash! THEY have to learn how to stand on their own two feet instead of PREYING upon society!

 

[Biker]

Didn't know that could happen. I've been in and out a couple times on the same day. Had to sit and wait for a couple hours each time while they figured out who I was but 19 months? I don't get medical problems that can be put on hold for a year and a half at a time. That's just nuts!

After my first appointment, things speeded right up. If I need to nowadays, I can make the 3 hour drive to the VA hospital in SLC and walk right into the ER with no problems. They even help out some with gas money. It was the first one that took forever. It's not unusual at all.
Biker

 

[Manedwolf]

Biker,

I very rarely run into homeless guys claiming to be vets of any other war. It seems like all the posers latched on to Vietnam for the sympathy it now engenders.

I get disheartened by all the WWII (lots fewer nowadays of course) Korea and now Nam vets who aren't homeless but seem to have nowhere left to go but the VFW or Legion Hall. Familys gone or taken, friends dead or dying, just looking for someone to listen.

What made my day with one of those was when a reporter asked an elderly WWII (and Pearl Harbor) vet what he thought of the "Pearl Harbor" movie.

He exclaimed. "Love story? There weren't no love at Pearl unless you paid three bucks for it!"

Awesome.